Format/size for printing?

[Mikeyb90]

What size and format do you save your photos as for printing? The last time I printed I saved as 8x10 @ 300 dpi and in JPEG format.. I've been reading that I should save in tiff because JPEG losses info. Any input or advice? How large should it be?

 

[john.margetts]

If you save as JPEG at best quality it will be fine. JPEGs are only a problem if you save at low quality or if you keep saving the same file many times.

I have an advantage as I am European and save all my pictures as A format files and let the printer scale them to the size I want. Unfortunately, that won't work with American paper sizes.

 

[Mikeyb90]

If you save as JPEG at best quality it will be fine. JPEGs are only a problem if you save at low quality or if you keep saving the same file many times.

I have an advantage as I am European and save all my pictures as A format files and let the printer scale them to the size I want. Unfortunately, that won't work with American paper sizes.

Cool! Thank you! I didn't think my prints looked bad at all being jpeg

 

[KmH]

Many print labs here in the US don't want TIFF files uploaded to them because a print made from a lossy, compressed JPEG file is indistinguishable from a much larger (file size wise), not compressed, TIFF file.

TIFF files seriously eat up the print lab's storage space, which is why they don't want people uploading TIFF files.

I wonder if you understand what "8x10 @ 300 PPI" (not dpi) is actually saying.

Doing the math shows that 8 inches x 300 pixels per inch = 2400 pixels, and 10 inches x 300 pixels per inch = 3000 pixels.
If you uploaded an image file that had pixel dimensions (image resolution) of more than 3000 x 2400 pixels, @ 300 PPI the lab has to crop your photo and discard pixels from the long side to get down to 10" @ 300 PPI and discard pixels from the short side to get down to 8" @ 300 PPI.

Plus, most labs make 8x10 prints as C-prints (chromogenic color print process), instead of as inkjet prints, and the commonly used C-print machines can't print at higher than an equivalent of 250 PPI.
C-prints are made by exposing light sensitive photo paper with your image and then the paper is chemically developed using the RA-4 process.

Do you crop to the 5:4 aspect ratio of an 8x10, from a 4:3 aspect ratio original most DSLR cameras make, before you submit image files for printing?
If you do and leave the print resolution (PPI) undefined the print lab can then use all the pixels you send them and you could wind up with a print that has better print resolution than you set at 300 PPI.
Assigning the print resolution which may limit the print lab to making a lower quality print than they could if you didn't assign a print resolution.

 

[Mikeyb90]

Many print labs here in the US don't want TIFF files uploaded to them because a print made from a lossy, compressed JPEG file is indistinguishable from a much larger (file size wise), not compressed, TIFF file.

TIFF files seriously eat up the print lab's storage space, which is why they don't want people uploading TIFF files.

I wonder if you understand what "8x10 @ 300 PPI" (not dpi) is actually saying.

Doing the math shows that 8 inches x 300 pixels per inch = 2400 pixels, and 10 inches x 300 pixels per inch = 3000 pixels.
If you uploaded an image file that had pixel dimensions (image resolution) of more than 3000 x 2400 pixels, @ 300 PPI the lab has to crop your photo and discard pixels from the long side to get down to 10" @ 300 PPI and discard pixels from the short side to get down to 8" @ 300 PPI.

Plus, most labs make 8x10 prints as C-prints (chromogenic color print process), instead of as inkjet prints, and the commonly used C-print machines can't print at higher than an equivalent of 250 PPI.
C-prints are made by exposing light sensitive photo paper with your image and then the paper is chemically developed using the RA-4 process.

Do you crop to the 5:4 aspect ratio of an 8x10, from a 4:3 aspect ratio original most DSLR cameras make, before you submit image files for printing?
If you do and leave the print resolution (PPI) undefined the print lab can then use all the pixels you send them and you could wind up with a print that has better print resolution than you set at 300 PPI.
Assigning the print resolution which may limit the print lab to making a lower quality print than they could if you didn't assign a print resolution.

I kinda get what you're saying there, still kinda scratching my head. When I'm done with a picture in PS and I'm ready to save it to give to my customer, how should I save? As is they are all 2400x3600 @300PPI.. How would I leave the resolution undefined like you're talking about? I apologize that this kind of stuff is a little over my head still.

 

[KmH]

No need to apologize to me.
I'm here to help new photographers learn.
However, you might need to apologize to your customer for having the cart in front of the horse.

At any rate DSLR cameras today have lots more image resolution than 3600 x 2400 pixels (8.6 MP).

Just leave the print resolution setting to the print lab. Use whatever print resolution is the default for your camera(s).
Nikon DSLRs use the 300 ppi default. Canon DSLRs use 72 ppi as the default.
What you need to be most concerned with is the aspect ratio, which is why I included the aspect ratio chart I made some years back.

2400x3600 @300PPI defines both the image resolution (2400 x 3600 pixels) and the print resolution (300 ppi).
Image resolution & print resolution determine print size.
Note that there is no print resolution (size) for electronic display. The image resolution is all that matters.

pixels / inches = ppi
pixels / ppi =inches
ppi x inches = pixels

FWIW - I usually cropped for content, and only rarely cropped for a standard print size.

As print size gets bigger, prints get viewed from further away and print resolution can be lowered - as long as the image being printed is a high quality image that has few noticeable image artifacts - like image noise, moiré, posterization, visible MCUs (minimum coded unit artifacts from JPEG compression. Many people mistake MCUs for pixels though visible MCU borders are 8x8, 8x16, or 16x16 pixel groups), etc.

A 20 x 30 print made from a high quality photograph can look stunning at a print resolution of 200 ppi.
In fact, most professional labs stake their print making reputations on a minimum print resolution limit that is usually down around 100 ppi.

 

[Mikeyb90]

Ok, I see what you're saying now. The only reason I changed the size and resolution was for uploading.. But now that I've changed it, is it too late to return to the original size? or will I have to start over from the original?

 

[dennybeall]

Good information- what bothers me is you're saving the file for printing. You want to save the ORIGINAL in a lossless format like tiff. Then you make a copy for printing and follow the information provided above.

 

[Mikeyb90]

Good information- what bothers me is you're saving the file for printing. You want to save the ORIGINAL in a lossless format like tiff. Then you make a copy for printing and follow the information provided above.

As of now they are all still on PS in tiff format. I always save as a copy when I do. I goofed when I resized them in PS to email them.

 

[KmH]

The only reason I changed the size and resolution was for uploading.. But now that I've changed it, is it too late to return to the original size? or will I have to start over from the original?

Changed the size for electronic display (pixel dimensions/image resolution/aspect ratio), the image file size (bytes, kilo or mega), or the print size (print resolution)?
Do you save TIFFs as 16-bit depth or 8-bit depth files?

I only use the TIFF file type to send commercial clients image files they will want to edit themselves.
Otherwise I save the 16-bit depth Raw file and I save my edits as a 16-bit depth .psd file (Photoshop digital).
Sixteen-bit depth TIFF files have a larger file size than 16-bit .psd files and consume more file storage space.

A couple other aspects of image file prep for printing we haven't yet discussed is what color space and rendering intent you assign files destined for printing, and what type of prints you usually have made.