Full frame

pongerts · Nov 1, 2009

Good day guys!

Here again for another newbie question.

I have a question regarding full frame on Canon systems.

As far as I know, with regards to the naming convention on Nikon lenses,
a lens would be meant for full frame if it is labelled 'FX'...and for cropped 'DX'...

please correct me if I'm wrong with my above statement...

my question is, what is the naming/labelling convention on canon lenses when it comes to full frame lenses and non-full frames?

thanks again for your help!!!

musicaleCA · Nov 1, 2009

35mm = EF

APS-C = EF-S

"Meant for full frame" is a bad choice of words, since any EF or FX lens can be mounted on any Canon or Nikon APS-C camera, respectively.

pongerts · Nov 1, 2009

thanks for the very quick response musicale..

yes, the phrase 'meant for full frame' was quite improper...

but I guess you know what I meant...

thanks again!

Derrel · Nov 1, 2009

Nikon has no lenses marked as "FX". None. I will repeat that again: not a single Nikkor lens carries the label "FX".

A handful of Nikkor lenses are clearly labeled "DX Nikkor". When those DX Nikkor lenses are mounted on any full-frame Nikon camera body, the default behavior is for the body to automatically switch to the APS-C capture size; Canon's EF-S or crop-field lenses cannot be mounted onto ANY full-frame Canon body.

Also, if I am not mistaken, the original Digital Rebel also cannot accept EF-S lenses.

pongerts · Nov 1, 2009

ok...if no FX...then no FX...

so does it mean that there really aren't lenses that are for full frame sensors and cropped sensors?

is it only the cropping factor that becomes different when mounted onto these bodies?

musicaleCA · Nov 1, 2009

Derrel said:
Nikon has no lenses marked as "FX". None. I will repeat that again: not a single Nikkor lens carries the label "FX".

A handful of Nikkor lenses are clearly labeled "DX Nikkor". When those DX Nikkor lenses are mounted on any full-frame Nikon camera body, the default behavior is for the body to automatically switch to the APS-C capture size; Canon's EF-S or crop-field lenses cannot be mounted onto ANY full-frame Canon body.

Also, if I am not mistaken, the original Digital Rebel also cannot accept EF-S lenses.

In addition, the reason that Canon EF-S lenses can't be mounted onto Canon's 35mm bodies is because the lens extends into the body and would interfere with the mirror. Cookies to whomever can explain why they did this, other than forcing users to not muddle-up the works and use crop lenses on full-frame bodies.

And do you mean this Rebel?

Overread · Nov 1, 2009

musicaleCA said:
In addition, the reason that Canon EF-S lenses can't be mounted onto Canon's 35mm bodies is because the lens extends into the body and would interfere with the mirror. Cookies to whomever can explain why they did this, other than forcing users to not muddle-up the works and use crop lenses on full-frame bodies.

It's simple - aside from the fact that the image circle of the lens would not cover the full sensor ( and thus give massive vignetting) and the fact that most canon FF cameras that I know of don't have a "crop sensor mode" as such - its also forcing people wanting to go fullframe to upgrade to the fullframe glass. Thus ensuring that people do upgrade their glass as well as camera body

musicaleCA · Nov 1, 2009

Overread said:
musicaleCA said:

In addition, the reason that Canon EF-S lenses can't be mounted onto Canon's 35mm bodies is because the lens extends into the body and would interfere with the mirror. Cookies to whomever can explain why they did this, other than forcing users to not muddle-up the works and use crop lenses on full-frame bodies.

Click to expand...

It's simple - aside from the fact that the image circle of the lens would not cover the full sensor ( and thus give massive vignetting) and the fact that most canon FF cameras that I know of don't have a "crop sensor mode" as such - its also forcing people wanting to go fullframe to upgrade to the fullframe glass. Thus ensuring that people do upgrade their glass as well as camera body

Which is a marketing ploy. Still haven't seen any reasoning for the engineering of it. A "crop sensor mode" like Nikon's would be pathetically easy to implement in comparison to the other stuff they're doing.

Overread · Nov 1, 2009

Yep and Canon are very much ruled by their marketing department - just look at how they are more aggresive a hobbling lower tier camera bodies to keep their higher teir bodies on a higher still plane - especailly when compared to nikon.
I think its also why we have seen a big MP move from them over an ISO move - a quick study of the average person would yeald results asking for more MP than for things like a higher ISO or a higher dynamic range.

chip · Nov 1, 2009

why would anyone buy a full frame camera and use a crop frame lens anyhow? I personally believe that eventually all DSLR cameras will be full frame. Full frame and medium format sensors are getting more affordable with time. After a while camera companies may not bother to make a sub full frame sensor any more for the DSLRs. Now for PnS cameras I think sub full frame sensors are here to stay.

Garbz · Nov 2, 2009

Lets see. Someone may buy a full frame camera, and have a collection of APS lenses. Someone may be on holiday and like to take the tiny 18-200 lens with them on their D700 to save on carrying weight, or maybe someone really just bought the D700 for lowISO photography and couldn't care less about the 12mpx. Actually what about highspeed crop, does the D3 or the D3s do that? People's priorities may not always be subject to a 12megapixel restraint.

Full frame sensor have low yields. It's a basic question of how many sensor can you fit onto a silicon wafer and how many will get damaged due to manufacturing imperfections end up with wasted silicon. If full frame gets cheaper, then aps gets cheaper. If company A decides it'll just release P&S cameras and full frame cameras, guess what happens? Yeah all people who want to enter photography and may not have the $3000 ($1500 maybe by then?) to spend will go to Company B. Shortly after Company A's CEO gets fired for the worst decision in manufacturing history. APS is here to stay, as are the tiny tiny little sensors in P&S cameras that actually permit them to create lenses the size of a 10c piece.

musicaleCA · Nov 2, 2009

Or that itsy bitsy, somehow-manages-to-take-decent-3MP-pictures sensor in the iPhone.

pongerts · Nov 2, 2009

great discussion guys!

ok. now, I am getting a clearer picture.

That there are lenses for crop and full frame sensors, correct?

and especially with canon bodies, these are not inter-usable, correct?

Dao · Nov 2, 2009

I also believe the the APC-S will be around for a long while. It's allow lens manufacturers to make faster and/or longer telephoto lenses at a lower cost and less weight. And I believe that is what the market they are going after.