Giving and Receiving C&C

[LoveAlwaysJami]

I'm sorry too for bumping this thread at page 9, but reading through it I wish I wouldve found it earlier! This should automatically pop-up when someone gets a username so we don't make a fool out of ourselves right off I've only started two actual threads with pictures that I KNOW were not top knotch. People have been very helpful and constructive.. I "believe" I posted them in the right area which was entitled "Beginners" or something of that nature. You have pros and newbies on every forum. You have sweethearts and jerks on every forum. When I found TPF it was because I searched "BEGINNERS PHOTOGRAPHY FORUM" on my browser BUT I saw someone say they were leaving the forum because it was full of newbies and questioning where all the "real" photographers went yesterday, WTF? I was initially offended. Isn't that what its all about? Getting as many people as you can with common interest so they can communicate..new or seasoned? Anyway, now Im just ranting. Thank you for putting this together for us!

 

[aliciaqw]

Sooo, as a newbie I guess I should not offer my C&C? OK then...lips sealed since I have no technical background or experience.

 

[Gaerek]

Sooo, as a newbie I guess I should not offer my C&C? OK then...lips sealed since I have no technical background or experience.

That wasn't the point I was trying to make when I posted this. I personally think it's important for beginners to get used to offering critisism to others for their work. How can you be expected to critique your own work if you can't even critique someone elses? One of the points that I was trying to make is that if your only critique is "Hey nice shot!" that maybe it would be better not to say anything at all. If you like a particular photograph, just explain why you like it, that's all.

The main point of this thread was to get people to take feelings out of C&C, and to offer actual critique on a photo. Too many people tend to say that someone has a great shot, simply because they don't want to hurt their feelings. This tends to hurt the photographer more than help them because it reinforces bad habits and bad techniques.

Please offer C&C. Just make sure to explain what you like or dislike about a shot.

 

[Overread]

+1 to what Gaerek just said. You can learn a heck of a lot even just giving comments and being open with what you like/dislike about an image. You might not know all the right words, but if you can descrive your feelings and views that goes a long way.

First you are giving the critique to the shooter and secondly you are yourself starting to put down in words how you feel about an image - that is a powerfull thing since it starts to help you to understand what it really is that you are seeing and how you are seeing photographs - and that of course builds directly into your own composition and your own taking/creation of photos.

 

[Gaerek]

+1 to what Gaerek just said. You can learn a heck of a lot even just giving comments and being open with what you like/dislike about an image. You might not know all the right words, but if you can descrive your feelings and views that goes a long way.

First you are giving the critique to the shooter and secondly you are yourself starting to put down in words how you feel about an image - that is a powerfull thing since it starts to help you to understand what it really is that you are seeing and how you are seeing photographs - and that of course builds directly into your own composition and your own taking/creation of photos.

And just to add to what both myself and Overread have said, the one thing that helped me become a better photographer more than anything else was when I started critiquing others. Like Overread said, it forced me to try to put my feelings about an image into words. Once you start learning more technical things about photography, you can start adding that also. Don't try to C&C above your skill level, but also don't give C&C that the photographer can't get anything out of.

 

[aliciaqw]

Noted. Thank you for the info!

 

[Overread]

Haha, that's part of the other reason I tend to not comment... because I feel like I don't have any right to since I have no idea what I'm talking about. haha

The only "right" that most ask for or wish is that anyone giving comments be free and ready to have comments given unto their work or at the very least display some of their work through the site or a website/blog (eg a link in your sig). That's about the only right you need

 

[Gaerek]

So no one will laugh at me when I attempt to describe something using extremely non-technical (and possibly nonsensical) words to express why or why not I like an image?!

Then we can correct you, give you the proper terms, and you'll learn. Don't worry about not knowing terms. It's all a part of being a beginner.

 

[rickabobaloey]

The original post can be applied to all things in life, truthfully. I wish I would have had more teachers in school who would have taken the time to give my some true constructive criticism, instead of just letting me squeak on by with average grades.

I'll use baseball as another example. I had a coach in little league, who no matter how many times we'd strike out, drop a fly ball, etc., he'd always give us a pat on the back and say "nice try, you'll get it next time". Nothing however, was really done to get us to become better ballplayers. Would any of us have become professional? Maybe, maybe not. But I can guarantee we'd have had more of a chance had the coach taken more of a teaching role, and actually critiqued the way we played. Maybe the kid who caught the fly ball was just standing lazily in the outfield not really ready to spring into action when the ball was hit his way, but the coach didn't want to hurt his feelings by telling him to stay alive out there. To quote Tom Hanks from A League of Their Own, "There's no crying! There's no crying in baseball!!"

Kind of not on the point of photography, but I just thought this topic can portray to everything and anything that involves teaching. Sometimes teachers need to be harsh, it helps to get the point across.

 

[white]

The original post can be applied to all things in life, truthfully. I wish I would have had more teachers in school who would have taken the time to give my some true constructive criticism, instead of just letting me squeak on by with average grades.

[...] Nothing however, was really done to get us to become better ballplayers. Would any of us have become professional? Maybe, maybe not. But I can guarantee we'd have had more of a chance had the coach taken more of a teaching role, and actually critiqued the way we played.

Yeah that would be ideal, until some brat's mom comes over and starts harassing you because you're being too hard on the kids. After awhile you just stop caring. I think we're slowly building a culture where there are no failures, no second place finishes. Everybody is equal and all that lovey-dovey bullshit.

You see it here to some extent. Sometimes people get bent out of shape because the criticism is thought to be too harsh, but most of it is well-intentioned. It's just not dressed up.

 

[rickabobaloey]

I saw a Pizza Hut comercial the other day that showed two young kids who just lost a ball game who were talking about how no matter the outcome of the game, coach always took them to Pizza Hut afterwards. :meh:

Seriously? If everything is equal, and everyone gets the same prize in the end, where's the motivation going to come from to actually put in the work and accomplish something?

This is a root problem, that really starts at the parenting level to be quite honest.

 

[PerfectlyFlawed]

Good job!

Haha...jk. Seriously though...you make many good points and suggestions.. I *tried* to hit the 'thank' button...but for some stupid reason...it denied me. Hmm. Anyway, thanks for this thread!

 

[crimbfighter]

I definitely agree with the OP on this one. It's never easy to take criticism from anyone, but if you're asking for C&C, you have to put your pride on the back burner. If you don't want C&C, simply post the photos with a disclaimer of "I'm just posting these to share with everyone"

For those who followed my "Badge and Gun" series, it was without a doubt the C&C that allowed me to obtain the photos I wanted. Of course, in my mind, the first shot was good, but I was oblivious to how many "unknown knowns" I was missing. It's funny, I even ended that series with a note to my fellow noobs on how important of a role the honest C&C I received played in achieving the end result.

Of course, with that being said, I have seen a few, and I do mean only a few, people posting C&C that appears unnecessarily harsh or rude. Granted, like what has already been said, they may have already tried to help this person several times before and they just aren't listening, but at that point, I think it's just better to not comment and chalk them up to a lost cause... There are many of us noobs on here that are genuinely interested in improving ourselves, and we couldn't do it without those of you who are willing to take the time and effort to help us achieve that goal.

So, a big thanks to all of you who are willing to help us!

 

[Raizels]

I have a bigger problem with those who defend the OP, and make everyone else out to be bad guys. That's a huge issue that came about recently.

I've done that, but not because I wanted the OP to love me (although he did thank me). People were being really, really, unnecessarily rude, to the point of saying "I hate you a little more with every post". Tell me that's not personal!
I couldn't tolerate it, so I responded by defending the OP- the OP! Not the Photo!

... going back to read the thread through.

 

[Taylor510ce]

I think there should be a random snapshot gallery, and an active mod to move any thread that uses the word 'random' in the title or any post to it.

Then maybe also a 'I R trying to B serious photography' subforum.

Oh, also a subforum for those who lack shift keys...