Giving and Receiving C&C

[c.cloudwalker]

I disagree with this being the problem. If you are experienced or professional, you should act in that manneer, not like you are better than the op.

Do you mean you want C&C from people who are not better than you? I see no problem with acting like I'm better than the OP if I am and, frankly, if I want to learn I will ask for C&C from people who are better than me. Not from people who have nothing to teach me. But, to each his/her own.

 

[hower610]

I disagree with this being the problem. If you are experienced or professional, you should act in that manneer, not like you are better than the op.

Do you mean you want C&C from people who are not better than you? I see no problem with acting like I'm better than the OP if I am and, frankly, if I want to learn I will ask for C&C from people who are better than me. Not from people who have nothing to teach me. But, to each his/her own.

That great being better than the op, I am sure the one giving C&C has worked hard to get to the point they are at. Just don't treat them as a terrible photograher. Remember, you were there at one time...

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

How does one respond in a manner that doesn't give the impression that one is better than the other?

Oh, and thanks for "getting me", c.cloudwalker.

That great being better than the op, I am sure the one giving C&C has worked hard to get to the point they are at. Just don't treat them as a terrible photograher. Remember, you were there at one time...

What makes you think I didn't recieve harsh CC when I was a "beginner" right here on this forum? There were some really good people here, that were just as harsh and to the point as I am. I was never offended. I learned quickly too. I don't see anyone treating others as "terrible photographers." What I see and have participated in, are battles with people who JUST DON'T LISTEN to anything anyone says, and think THEY are the smarter one. Repeatedly posting for praise, and being rude to the givers of negative comments.

 

[hower610]

How does one respond in a manner that doesn't give the impression that one is better than the other?

Oh, and thanks for "getting me", c.cloudwalker.

In my professional life, I have been through a number of management trainings and seminars. One of the most important things I have learned to do when giving feedback to indiviguals is to always open up with atleast one good point. Then give the critisism in a non demeaning way. Open ended questions work well while giving feedback. It allows the person that is recieving the feed back a chance to think on their own and in most cases they realize what their mistakes are and they become better at what they are doing or trying to acheive. I use this with all of my employees expecially at their anual review and I am amamazed at how well this method actually works.

 

[c.cloudwalker]

That great being better than the op, I am sure the one giving C&C has worked hard to get to the point they are at. Just don't treat them as a terrible photograher. Remember, you were there at one time...

Absolutely agree but, please, read my previous posts. We are only human, we have bad days like every one else and we don't all express ourselves in the same manner. Therefore you (the you being anyone looking for C&C) do need a bit of a thick skin to accept those facts and not fly off the handle.

How does one respond in a manner that doesn't give the impression that one is better than the other?

Oh, and thanks for "getting me", c.cloudwalker.

Very good question indeed. Not to mention that I actually work at giving the impression that I DO know more so that the person knows it is worth listening to.

No thanks needed :lmao: I'm old enough and have dealt with enough different people to know we are not all the same (thank god) and that it takes a little work to "get" some people. Especially on the internet where we lack a lot of the clues such as facial expressions, tone of voice, accents, etc.

I can only hope that one of these days you are not so bitter and will change your screen name

 

[c.cloudwalker]

I use this with all of my employees expecially at their anual review and I am amamazed at how well this method actually works.

Does it really? Don't take this personally because I don't know the first thing about you but considering the way things are going in the world I have a tendency to question everything that anyone claims to work.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Open ended questions work well while giving feedback. It allows the person that is recieving the feed back a chance to think on their own and in most cases they realize what their mistakes are and they become better at what they are doing or trying to acheive.

I do this. It doesn't always work here. Often my questions are ignored. I love when I give crop suggestions, and the OP never tries it. I like when I am asked to show what I mean. It shows the OP is engaged and willing to see another perspective. This rarely happens though. I often get a sense from responses, or lack there of, of a "yeah, yeah, whatever" kind of attitude. To me this demonstrates that no learning is going to happen.

I can only hope that one of these days you are not so bitter and will change your screen name

Never.
I am not bitter at all, actually.

 

[hower610]

Open ended questions work well while giving feedback. It allows the person that is recieving the feed back a chance to think on their own and in most cases they realize what their mistakes are and they become better at what they are doing or trying to acheive.

I do this. It doesn't always work here. Often my questions are ignored. I love when I give crop suggestions, and the OP never tries it. I like when I am asked to show what I mean. It shows the OP is engaged and willing to see another perspective. This rarely happens though. I often get a sense from responses, or lack there of, of a "yeah, yeah, whatever" kind of attitude. To me this demonstrates that no learning is going to happen.

I think it's great that are many people here, such as yourself, willing to share their knowledge, but if the op, even if it's me, ignore tips that are shared, that is their issue. Even if the keep posting, no need to get aggravated, ignore it. In my opinion they are the ones not serious about improving. Enough said, I personal don't have problems with anybody, I am here to learn.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

I have a bigger problem with those who defend the OP, and make everyone else out to be bad guys. That's a huge issue that came about recently.

 

[marmots]

i think this should be a sticky

 

[SoonerBJJ]

Management seminars and psychology are great in context. However this isn't a business and I'm not dealing with my employees here. If you have the patience and inclination to run that exercise every time you give feedback then more power to you.

If I see something I like I say so, if I don't feel strongly enough about it then I won't. I'm not going to patronize the OP (or waste my time) making up something nice to say.

If negative feedback is enough to cause one to give up on photography then perhaps one should reexamine their commitment. Sorry.

 

[c.cloudwalker]

i think this should be a sticky

Yes but no one will read it :lmao:

 

[erhard]

I have a bigger problem with those who defend the OP, and make everyone else out to be bad guys. That's a huge issue that came about recently.

:thumbup: I have to agree with that! :thumbup:

 

[Dominantly]

I have a bigger problem with those who defend the OP, and make everyone else out to be bad guys. That's a huge issue that came about recently.

So true.

I'll make this specific, I really dislike it when I see a thread with someones attempt at baby/child photography, that has some obvious flaws, but still gets "great shots" from everyone.
It seems like people just want to make the OP feel good about the shots, or maybe they don't want to hurt their feelings because their kids are the subject.. I don't know

It just irks me.

 

[Craig G]

1) New user posts pictures. He thinks they're great and he'll get lots of praise.
2) Veteran photographer/poster replies and gives honest and direct C&C about the flaws of the shot, and how it can be made better.
3) New user gets defensive and says that those flaws pointed out by the veteran were intentional, and that critique on those isn’t valid.
4) Veteran posts again stating that even if the flaws he pointed out earlier were intentional, the photo, because of those flaws, intentional or not, still isn't good.
5) Goody two shoes poster, who isn't very experienced, and just wants to make everyone happy chimes in with something along the lines of, "Don't let the Internet bullies get to you. You had a great shot for a beginner, and don't let anyone tell you different!"
6) New user replies to goody two shoes with, Thanks for the kind words, I knew they were good shots, I appreciate your C&C.
7) New user continues to post new threads, with new photos, without listening to good feedback, and without improvement.
8) Veterans, who are tired of trying to help new user out, quit replying to his threads, and new user starts to only receive "Good shot!" and "Nice Work! I like your photo!" without ever improving.

Homerun..:thumbup: