Good but not too pricey ND/ND grad filters?

[hxdrummerxc]

Hello,
This is my first post here,

My name is Nick, im from Michigan.
Been shooting for a while with my Canon 450D rebel XSi just for fun. Not the best, but I don't have a ton of money and it works for me.

I am looking into getting some ND Grad / ND filters. The only filter I have is a Hoya HMC circular polarizer, and I love it.
But I am going on a Hiking trip to Michigan's Upper Peninsula next month.... I plan on taking a lot of landscape photos. The one thing about my landscape photos that I always hate is the over exposed sky.
This trip, I will probably be taking a lot of water/sunset photos... and I really need that Graduated ND filter.

I also wouldn't mind also getting a non-graduating ND filter. There is a lot of little streams and waterfalls up there, and getting some longer exposure shots of those would be nice. An ND filter darkening the shot to allow longer shutter speeds without over-exposure would be nice.

I would prefer the square style filters. And wouldn't even mind hand holding them. (some of the Cokin holders are said to produce vignetting on wide angle lenses)

----------------------------

My questions are:

This will be my first ND experience. What are some good filters to get that won't kill my wallet ?

Im looking to get just two filters, one regular Neutral Density to darken the pics for longer exposures, and one graduated (for sky over-exposure),
I don't know how dark to get them? I know they have some that change very little and some that are almost black, but I have never used them before.
Any opinions on what level of ND would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks a lot,
Nick

 

[tyler_h]

First question to you is what lens? (ie. how wide as this will determine your vignetting problem - additionally; your future uses as you make wish to prevent the need to rebuy in you change to different lens or body)

Cokin P or Z series will be the options then.

ND for streams in daylight: my guess would be 9-10 stops
GND to have one a soft edge, 2-3 stops

 

[hxdrummerxc]

Thanks for the Reply Tyler,

I should have mentioned that I mostly use just my kit lens (EF-S 18-55mm)
For this trip however, I MIGHT rent a better quality lens. But it won't be much wider maybe a 15-17mm (I really just want to rent one for the better optical quality)

Ill start looking at the Cokin P and Z series. Is it true that the Z series are bigger and possibly better for wide angle?


Thanks,
Nick

 

[tyler_h]

If you do a search I started a thread a little while back on similar topics.

I've just got kit at the moment but want to future proof (which could include 16mm on FF or 10mm (16mm equiv.) on crop. From what I read for that you need the Z series or larger. Z series is 100x100 or 100x150 for grad filters - these are common sizes so it's possible to get a Cokin holder then use Lee or Tiffen etc filters in them.

At 15mm you should still be fine with the P series; I believe it is meant to be good down the ~20mm (15 is equiv. to 24mm on FF). It's a matter of considering how likely you are to want a wider lens setup in the future, and if you would prefer an increased cost with the Z filters now, or sticking with the P and seeing if you find you need the Z in the future.

For the Z series Cokin makes a Grad Kit with three Soft GND's, along with the holder + case. I believe there is the same in the P. Each would need an adaptor ring. I would suggest getting a holder over handholding and if you are looking to be taking waterfall/stream shots you might not be able to hold it to the lens still enough for the duration of exposure. If your budget can stretch a little further the kit is cheaper overall if you end up using each of the filters. Lee makes a 10 stop ND (100x100) which I think is the one you would be looking for (haven't tried one out; it's on my wishlist though) but it is fairly expensive and depending on where you buy it will cost you as much as a Z series Grad Kit.

 

[hxdrummerxc]

Ok, thanks a lot.

I like photography as a hobby, Even if im not the best and don't have the best equipment.... Its fun. I can see myself doing this as a hobby forever. I can see upgraded cameras / lenses in the future. So I might go with the Z if I can afford it.

The Lee 10 Stop that you mentioned looks really nice. But along with the other filters, I probably won't have the money for it. Do you know if there are any cheaper similar ones? Does Cokin make and 8-10 stop ND?

Do you think I could get away with using my Hoya HMC circular Polarizer, with like a 3 stop ND on top of that? Because the Polarizer darkens I think about 2 stops as it is.
Then again, it probably wouldn't allow a holder. So like you said, I would be trying to hand hold the filter with a long exposure shot (which might not work)

 

[tyler_h]

CPL would be around 1-1.5 stops with current ones but it wouldn't be consistent across the frame, and the wider you get the more noticeable it is. You can get non-square ND filters. There is less needed to have the square/rectangular filters with NDs versus GNDs so you could save money there. You could get a 58mm 10 stop for around half the price, but any wider lenses are likely to have larger filter diameters so you would have to replace it with new lenses.

Other square filters >~6 stops are all at a similar price point to the Lee offering.

 

[hxdrummerxc]

Ok, that does makes sense...

Were gonna be going in about 3-4 weeks. And with my upcoming semester of College, I won't have much money to spend...
So im thinking I might not get a kit.
I might get a non-square ND for the stream shots. (Which would also eliminate the real need for the Cokin filter holder)
And if I do rent a lens, ill just have to deal with my kit lens for the long exposure shots.

Then I might get a single fairly good square ND grad, and hand hold it. For the not-so-long exposure shots.

Then in the future, when I have the money, I can get a Cokin filter holder, and more filters.

Do you think hand holding an ND grad filter, for the normal exposure shots would be fine? Considering the fact that I will most likely have my tripod with me at all times.


Thanks a lot,
Nick

 

[tyler_h]

You still might bump the lens handholding on a tripod or knock it slightly. Even with a shorter time you need for a GND you would have to hold it even stiller as you need the graduation point to remain in the same spot. It would make it harder for use and you might not be as inclined to use it.

I'd consider the two options as:
A circular ND (you may want to consider your likely upgrade paths as you might be able to get a larger filter and adaptor so you can use it on future lenses / rented lenses, or
A Cokin Kit (or a holder + single filter) and just leave the long exposure for later.
Either way I'd try and minimise ending up with stuff to sell later down the road, unless you don't mind doing it / there is a decent market for it in your area.

 

[photoguy1971]

Check out B&H photoVideo. I just ordered a B+W ND 3.0 from them. My thread is 52mm and I paid 57.00.

 

[hxdrummerxc]

Ok, yea.
I guess better to be safe than sorry.

Ill try and get a holder and a decent ND grad for now. And maybe ill get lucky and have the money for a darker ND before we go.

So you said a Cokin P series holder shouldn't cause vignetting on cropped body 18mm (possibly down to 15mm if I rent a lens)?

So just to clarify, I would need need an adapter too. So Filter-holder-lens adapter

Would this be a decent grad filter? Amazon.com: Cokin Graduated Neutral Grey G2-SOFT ND8 0.9 Filter - Cokin P121S: Camera & Photo

 

[hxdrummerxc]

Alright, Thanks a lot for the help so far.....

For now, im gonna get the Cokin p series filter holder and adapter with one .9 (3 stop) ND grad.

Hopefully by the time we go, I will be able to get an 8-10 stop ND. If not ill try and suck it up, use low f-stops, and ISO 100 to attempt stream shots.

I have read that a lot of higher quality brand filter companies make filter sizes to fit Cokin P series. So this should leave a little room to upgrade in the future.
I will probably post back when I get the filters....

Thanks a lot,
Nick