Hasselblad X1D - Excited to what the future may bring!

[unpopular]

I do not think there is much need for a 4x5 sensor. Such a sensor would be astronomically expensive, and at any point that it wouldn't be the resolution of a 6x7 sized sensor would *far* surpass the performance of anything that sanity would require.

It's not about resolution to me. Maybe it's all in my head but there is something about large format portraits that I love.

It's not necessarily in your head, DOF is shallow. Though some of this is also tilt and a medium format viewcamera can do the same; cambo and rollei have had such dedicated systems.

But at the same time I don't think that particular thing is important enough to justify it.

 

[chuasam]

I don't know if I am excited about it but I was very interested when I saw this camera. It is a pretty penny or two but it will very interesting to see images from it.

(If I win the lottery, I'll get one as an everyday, walk around camera for street.)

That's why in excited to see something at this price point from Hasselblad. It will only mean more competition and possibly an affordable MF walk around system in the future.

Why do you need a MF Walk around? The industry is going to OTHER way. Smaller cameras.

People are buying into m43rds. Small and light and manageable lenses. 1" sensors for superzoom and pocket cameras.

Hassleblad is desperate to cling to former glory. Sure this camera is small compared to Previous MF cameras but the lenses are big.

If I win the lottery, my walk around camera will be a Sony RX1R 2.

 

[chuasam]

I do not think there is much need for a 4x5 sensor. Such a sensor would be astronomically expensive, and at any point that it wouldn't be the resolution of a 6x7 sized sensor would *far* surpass the performance of anything that sanity would require.

At those sizes, you can simply shoot slide film and use a drum scanner.

 

[unpopular]

At those sizes, you can simply shoot slide film and use a drum scanner.

Not by the point that a 4x5" sensor would be commercially practical.

Yes. Film is dying. Like it or not.

 

[unpopular]

Hassleblad is desperate to cling to former glory. Sure this camera is small compared to Previous MF cameras but the lenses are big.

If I win the lottery, my walk around camera will be a Sony RX1R 2.

TLDR Version: "I don't understand why anyone would want to shoot medium format, I mean, the camera wouldn't fit in my pocket!" Said nobody ever. Until now.

Hasselblad's problems have been marketing, not format. There are physical limitations to what is practical using the "sensel" paradigm. At some point it will not only be impractical and cost ineffective to cram more pixels into a sub-35mm sensor, it will be physically impossible.

Likewise Leica has maintained it's niche. The only high end camera brand that didn't really transition has been Contax. Though the Contax brand had problems before digital.

That aside, while consumer-oriented sensors have gotten smaller, professional sensors (such as this) have gotten larger. In the late 1990s people were pretty amped about full frame monochrome sensors (with a filter wheel!) on dedicated backs that had to be tethered to a PC, today's largest sensors are rapidly approaching 645.

The price of medium format has likewise declined significantly. While today's entry-level systems are priced similar to yesterday's high end systems, digital medium format even ten years ago couldn't even be looked at for under $20K for the back alone, and were only modestly larger than 35mm.

Medium format has always been expensive and bulky. The point of medium format though isn't portability, and never has been.

The question isn't though how "small" will we go. For interchangeable lens cameras intended to be used in a serious way that question has been answered. 4/3" seems to be the smallest that people are willing to accept. Yes there are smaller systems out there, but they generally haven't done well or are specialty kits like the Pentax Q.

But no matter how good tomorrows sensors become, *most* photographers will expect APS-C.

[and no. we're not going to talk about light field photography or other computational methods. for one, light field photography requires more data to be collected, not less]

 

[jake337]

I don't know if I am excited about it but I was very interested when I saw this camera. It is a pretty penny or two but it will very interesting to see images from it.

(If I win the lottery, I'll get one as an everyday, walk around camera for street.)

That's why in excited to see something at this price point from Hasselblad. It will only mean more competition and possibly an affordable MF walk around system in the future.

Why do you need a MF Walk around? The industry is going to OTHER way. Smaller cameras.

People are buying into m43rds. Small and light and manageable lenses. 1" sensors for superzoom and pocket cameras.

Hassleblad is desperate to cling to former glory. Sure this camera is small compared to Previous MF cameras but the lenses are big.

If I win the lottery, my walk around camera will be a Sony RX1R 2.

Nothing to do with need and everyone to do with want.

My wants do not follow the industry as my wants are not based on following the crowd.

 

[chuasam]

I don't know if I am excited about it but I was very interested when I saw this camera. It is a pretty penny or two but it will very interesting to see images from it.

(If I win the lottery, I'll get one as an everyday, walk around camera for street.)

That's why in excited to see something at this price point from Hasselblad. It will only mean more competition and possibly an affordable MF walk around system in the future.

Why do you need a MF Walk around? The industry is going to OTHER way. Smaller cameras.

People are buying into m43rds. Small and light and manageable lenses. 1" sensors for superzoom and pocket cameras.

Hassleblad is desperate to cling to former glory. Sure this camera is small compared to Previous MF cameras but the lenses are big.

If I win the lottery, my walk around camera will be a Sony RX1R 2.

Nothing to do with need and everyone to do with want.

My wants do not follow the industry as my wants are not based on following the crowd.

You're one of those Pentax and Minolta refugees then

 

[jake337]

I don't know if I am excited about it but I was very interested when I saw this camera. It is a pretty penny or two but it will very interesting to see images from it.

(If I win the lottery, I'll get one as an everyday, walk around camera for street.)

That's why in excited to see something at this price point from Hasselblad. It will only mean more competition and possibly an affordable MF walk around system in the future.

Why do you need a MF Walk around? The industry is going to OTHER way. Smaller cameras.

People are buying into m43rds. Small and light and manageable lenses. 1" sensors for superzoom and pocket cameras.

Hassleblad is desperate to cling to former glory. Sure this camera is small compared to Previous MF cameras but the lenses are big.

If I win the lottery, my walk around camera will be a Sony RX1R 2.

Nothing to do with need and everyone to do with want.

My wants do not follow the industry as my wants are not based on following the crowd.

You're one of those Pentax and Minolta refugees then

Never owned either, lol.

 

[Braineack]

Omg, a camera maker who designed a freaking place to hold the camera...

using tapatalk.

 

[Solarflare]

Cant speak for others, but thats definitely a dreamcamera for me. At least the concept. I've been waiting for a great compact medium format camera with the Sony 44x33mm sensor and lenses specifically made for this sensor size for a while. I was expecting one from Fuji first, actually. Now Hasselblad beat them to it.

Uber cheap considering its a Hasselblad. But in absolute terms its a hefty pricetag. That will take a while before I can save enough money for buying that. And of course I'd need secondary equipment, too.

Also no actual reviews of that yet. Even if I had that kind of money in reserve already, I'd wait before the usual suspects are able to look into these. Especially the lenses make me wary. Suspiciously cheap, and from some company I never heard about. I definitely wouldnt want to save on the lens quality. I'm also not too pumped about the lens mount. Thats hardly less roomy than the Sony FE lens mount. Guess we wont get too extreme telephoto and too large apertures for this camera, anyway.

Also its Hasselblad. Unlike Leica, they dont have access to Panasonic technology. I waaay doubt the Autofocus will be as good as with Leica Q and SL. So - how good will it be, actually ? Any moving subjects at all ?

And the Interface ... well I'm so far not exactly sure if its made for a photographer or if its rather made for hippies. Theres not that many buttons and dials on that camera, and one even says "white balance" as if anyone with the slighest shred of interest in photography would shoot anything with this but RAW. The lenses only have a manual focus dial. And in the videos in the net, the Hasselblad guy SERIOUSLY adjusted aperture and shutter speed on the touchscreen. What the heck ? What does this thing have two command dials for ?!?

Much to love though. Double SD card slot - awesome. Central shutter in the lenses with full flash sync up to 1/2000 sec - wonderful. They announced having an equally compact trinity to Photokina - 30mm f???, 45mm f3.5, 90mm f3.2 (approx 24mm, 35mm, 70mm equiv), thats about what I would want for this kind of camera.

So - disfunctional toy for rich people, or dream camera for photo enthusiasts ? I really dont know yet. Either way I'll wait for what hopefully Fuji brings to photokina.

Will we see true medium format sized sensors in our lifetime? Large format?

But larger than 44x33mm will be too large to make really compact cameras anymore.

Also yes of course we'll see that. Well I dont know how long you'll live of course. Or I myself. And maybe tomorrow mankind wipes itself out with whatever, theres definitely no lack of choices for that, nuclear war, runaway climate collapse, virus escapes laboratory, whatever.

But assuming we live say two decades more and mankind progresses normally in that time, prices for medium format will keep falling just like they keep falling for full frame and the once so expensive APS-C is essentially dirty cheap already.


About large format, thats a completely different issue: LargeSense Large Format Digital Backs and Cameras

So very likely we'll see 4x5 and 8x10 large format cameras much quicker than affordable 6x45 and higher digital cameras.

But they'll be black and white and "cheap" as in not having the usual sensor technology - like microlenses. And they'll "only" have 12 Megapixels with HUGE pixels and a "low ISO" of what, 2k or something ? I've forgotten the exact value, but it was really high.

Either way the concept sounds uber fun and about the prices - we'll have to wait for that, but given these special conditions I'm quite optimistic this will be quite affordable, at least in the longer run.

And yes. I am very sure that Sony, Mamya or Fuji will definitely produce something like this very soon.

In fact, if I were to guess given what a blunder Sony/Hasselblad products had been in the past, this might even be a Sony camera yet to be released.

I dont think too many competition will flock in this segment. The sensor alone apparently costs about $4k (thats from forum postings, no idea how accurate, I cant find any genuine source). That limits the available market.

Fuji is in the rumors to make a likewise camera.

The Mamiya and Sony rumors however are old and the same thing has been said about Canon and Nikon. I dont see how Sony would get their hands on the Hasselblad technology, anyway, either. They only produce the sensor, otherwise they havent been involved.

I'll add that this is what the Leica SL should have been.

Nah. Leica uses some exotic 45x30mm sensor in the Leica S. I wouldnt be too excited about that odd thing in a mirrorless.

Just because it's modular with a whole array of accessories and has lots of lenses available for it doesn't mean it's not mirrorless. It was launched (back in 2014) under the heading mirrorless medium format.

Nobody ever stopped you from combining a digital sensor with a lens. That doesnt make it a real camera system with such insane "luxuries" like a proper viewfinder.

I can see this X1D having a nice price drop when some competition comes along.

I wouldnt hold my breath. The sensor alone apparently costs $4k. The build quality of the X1D is Hasselblad - compromise free. That thing really is worth every penny of $9k and wont budge too easily in price, because thats really the price of that thing.

So the difference between it and a regular FF sensor aint this big and with fast prime lenses you are neglecting the bigger sensor advantage, just quoting Tony's words as I understood them.

... say again ?

If you want the most extreme shallow depth of field, full frame is definitely the way you want to go. If thats what you think "neglecting" is.

But for medium format, anyone sane simply wants insane image quality for such a super pricey sensor. And with a compact camera, of course I want a compact lens on that. Not something I cant possibly properly balance.

There is no weakness of this system spottable on paper. Its exactly what one would want to have.

I think on Hasselblad site they wrote something about being able to use their other lenses with an adapter.

They'll be horribly unbalanced and the camera no longer will be small.

Also, the prices for these lenses are MUCH higher than the offers for the X1D.

Why do you need a MF Walk around? The industry is going to OTHER way. Smaller cameras.

I take it you dont actually follow photography news too closely.

 

[jake337]

Cant speak for others, but thats definitely a dreamcamera for me. At least the concept. I've been waiting for a great compact medium format camera with the Sony 44x33mm sensor and lenses specifically made for this sensor size for a while. I was expecting one from Fuji first, actually. Now Hasselblad beat them to it.

Uber cheap considering its a Hasselblad. But in absolute terms its a hefty pricetag. That will take a while before I can save enough money for buying that. And of course I'd need secondary equipment, too.

Also no actual reviews of that yet. Even if I had that kind of money in reserve already, I'd wait before the usual suspects are able to look into these. Especially the lenses make me wary. Suspiciously cheap, and from some company I never heard about. I definitely wouldnt want to save on the lens quality. I'm also not too pumped about the lens mount. Thats hardly less roomy than the Sony FE lens mount. Guess we wont get too extreme telephoto and too large apertures for this camera, anyway.

Also its Hasselblad. Unlike Leica, they dont have access to Panasonic technology. I waaay doubt the Autofocus will be as good as with Leica Q and SL. So - how good will it be, actually ? Any moving subjects at all ?

And the Interface ... well I'm so far not exactly sure if its made for a photographer or if its rather made for hippies. Theres not that many buttons and dials on that camera, and one even says "white balance" as if anyone with the slighest shred of interest in photography would shoot anything with this but RAW. The lenses only have a manual focus dial. And in the videos in the net, the Hasselblad guy SERIOUSLY adjusted aperture and shutter speed on the touchscreen. What the heck ? What does this thing have two command dials for ?!?

Much to love though. Double SD card slot - awesome. Central shutter in the lenses with full flash sync up to 1/2000 sec - wonderful. They announced having an equally compact trinity to Photokina - 30mm f???, 45mm f3.5, 90mm f3.2 (approx 24mm, 35mm, 70mm equiv), thats about what I would want for this kind of camera.

So - disfunctional toy for rich people, or dream camera for photo enthusiasts ? I really dont know yet. Either way I'll wait for what hopefully Fuji brings to photokina.

Will we see true medium format sized sensors in our lifetime? Large format?

But larger than 44x33mm will be too large to make really compact cameras anymore.

Also yes of course we'll see that. Well I dont know how long you'll live of course. Or I myself. And maybe tomorrow mankind wipes itself out with whatever, theres definitely no lack of choices for that, nuclear war, runaway climate collapse, virus escapes laboratory, whatever.

But assuming we live say two decades more and mankind progresses normally in that time, prices for medium format will keep falling just like they keep falling for full frame and the once so expensive APS-C is essentially dirty cheap already.


About large format, thats a completely different issue: LargeSense Large Format Digital Backs and Cameras

So very likely we'll see 4x5 and 8x10 large format cameras much quicker than affordable 6x45 and higher digital cameras.

But they'll be black and white and "cheap" as in not having the usual sensor technology - like microlenses. And they'll "only" have 12 Megapixels with HUGE pixels and a "low ISO" of what, 2k or something ? I've forgotten the exact value, but it was really high.

Either way the concept sounds uber fun and about the prices - we'll have to wait for that, but given these special conditions I'm quite optimistic this will be quite affordable, at least in the longer run.

And yes. I am very sure that Sony, Mamya or Fuji will definitely produce something like this very soon.

In fact, if I were to guess given what a blunder Sony/Hasselblad products had been in the past, this might even be a Sony camera yet to be released.

I dont think too many competition will flock in this segment. The sensor alone apparently costs about $4k (thats from forum postings, no idea how accurate, I cant find any genuine source). That limits the available market.

Fuji is in the rumors to make a likewise camera.

The Mamiya and Sony rumors however are old and the same thing has been said about Canon and Nikon. I dont see how Sony would get their hands on the Hasselblad technology, anyway, either. They only produce the sensor, otherwise they havent been involved.

I'll add that this is what the Leica SL should have been.

Nah. Leica uses some exotic 45x30mm sensor in the Leica S. I wouldnt be too excited about that odd thing in a mirrorless.

Just because it's modular with a whole array of accessories and has lots of lenses available for it doesn't mean it's not mirrorless. It was launched (back in 2014) under the heading mirrorless medium format.

Nobody ever stopped you from combining a digital sensor with a lens. That doesnt make it a real camera system with such insane "luxuries" like a proper viewfinder.

I can see this X1D having a nice price drop when some competition comes along.

I wouldnt hold my breath. The sensor alone apparently costs $4k. The build quality of the X1D is Hasselblad - compromise free. That thing really is worth every penny of $9k and wont budge too easily in price, because thats really the price of that thing.

So the difference between it and a regular FF sensor aint this big and with fast prime lenses you are neglecting the bigger sensor advantage, just quoting Tony's words as I understood them.

... say again ?

If you want the most extreme shallow depth of field, full frame is definitely the way you want to go. If thats what you think "neglecting" is.

But for medium format, anyone sane simply wants insane image quality for such a super pricey sensor. And with a compact camera, of course I want a compact lens on that. Not something I cant possibly properly balance.

There is no weakness of this system spottable on paper. Its exactly what one would want to have.

I think on Hasselblad site they wrote something about being able to use their other lenses with an adapter.

They'll be horribly unbalanced and the camera no longer will be small.

Also, the prices for these lenses are MUCH higher than the offers for the X1D.

Why do you need a MF Walk around? The industry is going to OTHER way. Smaller cameras.

I take it you dont actually follow photography news too closely.

Compact isn't really too important to me. I could walk around with a D5 all day. It's s big body but not to thick like the current MF DSLR offeringso. It's just nice to see MF getting more compact in the length department.

A digital Mamiya 7 with a 60mm x 70mm CMOS sensor! I'd be all over that.

 

[unpopular]

I dont think too many competition will flock in this segment. The sensor alone apparently costs about $4k (thats from forum postings, no idea how accurate, I cant find any genuine source). That limits the available market.

I am very certain that Sony will.I actually think that this camera is the Digital Mamiya 7 that was first rumored a few years back. If you had concept drawings of this camera, "digital 7" would naturally be what you think. It very much looks like a Mamiya 7ii, and it'seasy to see how the rumor would spread that Sony and Mamiya were working on something

I do think Sony has an interest in medium format. What can Sony put into the A7 to realistically compete with Nikon or Canon? I think that the A7 is a bit of a dead end for a flagship.

One thing that Sony can do that Nikon and Canon can't is medium format.

 

[unpopular]

Why do you need a MF Walk around? The industry is going to OTHER way. Smaller cameras.

I walked around with Bronica S, Yashicamat, Mamiya Press.

If that's not bulky enough, I also used to walk around with a Graflex RB Series B 4x5. I used it handheld, too.

It's not crazy tacos to use medium format outside of the studio. The issue is more just that digital medium format is still too cost prohibitive to see on a regular basis. That doesn't mean that there isn't a market.

 

[jake337]

Why do you need a MF Walk around? The industry is going to OTHER way. Smaller cameras.

I walked around with Bronica S, Yashicamat, Mamiya Press.

If that's not bulky enough, I also used to walk around with a Graflex RB Series B 4x5.

It's not crazy tacos to use medium format outside of the studio. The issue is more just that digital medium format is still too cost prohibitive to see on a regular basis. That doesn't mean that there isn't a market.

As the prices become less prohibited the market will surely grow. Even in this review the guy from Hasselblad says at the 50 second mark, "the first in a new line of cameras".




I think we will be seeing more MF mirrorless on the way. I can not wait to see what Pentax or mamiya fire back with as well.

 

[PaulWog]

I'll stick with my d750.

The 5dsr or the successor to the d810 also sound nicer, or even just the d810.

Pair one of those with a zeiss lens or just an art lens.