HDR photography101, 201, 401 + Why does canon hate Auto Exposure Bracketing?

[Bynx]

Doing AEB is the same as doing the whole shoot manually. Its only faster -- and if there are fast moving clouds etc fast is key. My Nikon has an AEB with 3 shots. But using the 2 User Modes it can be programmed to shoot up to 9 shots but that takes pressing the shutter 3 times and moving the selector dial 3 times. I think since HDR is so popular that excluding it is not doing their product any service. Its going to turn people away to cameras that are more capable of doing HDR. Almost any camera can do HDR manually as long as you have shutter control and Aperture priority. Its ok for working indoors or for static settings. For movement in the image its just too slow.

 

[480sparky]

I think AEB is more designed to bracket the exposures to the user is more likely to capture ONE frame that has the 'correct' exposure, not to cater to the HDR crowd. In tricky lighting situations where the subject is far darker or lighter than the background is the purpose of AEB.

If this is incorrect, then I see no reason why the AEB function on my D7k can also be programmed to bracket flash output, Active D-Lighting or white balance.

 

[Majeed Badizadegan]

Doing AEB is the same as doing the whole shoot manually. Its only faster -- and if there are fast moving clouds etc fast is key. My Nikon has an AEB with 3 shots. But using the 2 User Modes it can be programmed to shoot up to 9 shots but that takes pressing the shutter 3 times and moving the selector dial 3 times. I think since HDR is so popular that excluding it is not doing their product any service. Its going to turn people away to cameras that are more capable of doing HDR. Almost any camera can do HDR manually as long as you have shutter control and Aperture priority. Its ok for working indoors or for static settings. For movement in the image its just too slow.

Agreed.

I think AEB is more designed to bracket the exposures to the user is more likely to capture ONE frame that has the 'correct' exposure, not to cater to the HDR crowd. In tricky lighting situations where the subject is far darker or lighter than the background is the purpose of AEB.

If this is incorrect, then I see no reason why the AEB function on my D7k can also be programmed to bracket flash output, Active D-Lighting or white balance.

Your information is incorrect and based on opinion and a lack of knowledge about HDR photography in general. Those other features are irrelevant to the topic at hand. This thread is specifically about exposure bracketing. Your D7K is not capable of more than 3 AEB. I know this because I've seriously considered the D7000, and for all its other great qualities and features, it does not bracket more than 3 exposures.

I understand you may want to force your opinion on people, and provide misinformation to sound smart, but I'd rather hear feedback from someone who knows something about HDR.

Again, I don't feel it necessary to repeat myself. If you can't accept my view on the matter, then I happily refer you to the video in my original post which will handily disprove all your misfound opinions.

 

[480sparky]

Your information is incorrect and based on opinion and a lack of knowledge about HDR photography in general. Those other features are irrelevant to the topic at hand. This thread is specifically about exposure bracketing. Your D7K is not capable of more than 3 AEB. I know this because I've seriously considered the D7000, and for all its other great qualities and features, it does not bracket more than 3 exposures.

I understand you may want to force your opinion on people, and provide misinformation to sound smart, but I'd rather hear feedback from someone who knows something about HDR.

Again, I don't feel it necessary to repeat myself. If you can't accept my view on the matter, then I happily refer you to the video in my original post which will handily disprove all your misfound opinions.

This is only your opinion, so I will readily and summarily dismiss it as you know absolutely nothing about anything.

I'm sorry you have such deep issues regarding the matter. Perhaps professional help may be needed. If you don't want to read what I have to say, there's remedies available to you. But perhaps you can open your mind and listen to what others have to say instead of pretending you're such a freaking expert on everything.

But maybe the D7k doesn't need more than 3 EVs for AEB because a competent photographer SHOULD be able to get close enough to a CORRECT exposure that there's no need for more than 3 frames.

So I will repeat myself, the 3-frame AEB is not designed to accommodate HDR enthusiasts.

As for you, I feel sorry for you. I truly do.

That said, I am done with the matter.

Fare thee well.

 

[manaheim]

Holy crap this thread is Troll's gold.

Hey OP... your attitude is pretty much absolute sh1t.

You have a pretty interesting point which did bring up a nice idea from someone else, which I agree with... which is that it would be nice to be able to configure AEB to do exactly what you want... that way photographers could set it to their general preferences... possibly even have multiple preferences. Without that, however, I find that most photographers with any amount of experience do not find AEB very useful. I, for one, have never used it... for HDRs or anything.

Unfortunately, however, because of your posture, you're just coming off like an arse.

Can AEB be used for HDR? Sure. Is it the explicit purpose for it? I think that's a little hard for any one of us to say. I did some research on it years back because, honestly, it always seemed exceptionally lazy to me to use it for anything... and most things I found referenced it as "something you use when you're not sure of your exposure". Some people were using it for HDR, sure... but it seemed like that wasn't the common consensus about it's purpose. If you assert otherwise, I'd challenge you to cite your source. If you can't, then I call blowhard.

All I really see from you is someone who wants to thump their chest in a crowd and make themselves look big by calling the big bad Camera manufacturer stupid for daring to dis your brilliance as an HDR photographer ... by not giving you an automated tool to do your work for you? And you defend your point further by suggesting that your brilliance cannot afford the obvious solution to your perfection requirements, which is a $100 some odd dollar cable that allows you to control those settings without touching the camera? Seriously? Dude. Back up the truck. If you rock the party so badly that you need such precision, you better man up and buy you a cable. Otherwise, I think it's time for you to pack up your toys and go home.

I can tell you for a fact that I've been around the block with cameras and HDRs at this point, and I have not seen one iota of quality issues from touching my camera... and I'm a guy who does a shutter lock-up when he takes a night exposure. Maybe your HDRs are better than mine, but you know what... I doubt it.

If all you're looking for is to make your ridiculous little stump speech and shout at the rain, by all means feel free to do so. However, I suggest you back the frick off of people who dare to offer you an opposing viewpoint, because from where I sit, they know a frack-ton more than you do.

:thumbdown:

 

[Bynx]

I agree with Sparky when he says 3-frame AEB is not really designed for the HDR enthusiast. 3 shots are ok for a simple flat lighting situation, but if there is a lot of contrast -- very bright and very dark areas, then a lot more than 3 exposures are needed to get a nice looking HDR image. While the D7000 has a simple 3 shot AEB function as I have previously said, the 2 User modes in conjunction with the Auto mode can be programmed to give a 5, 7 or 9 shot series for HDR. There is a post I made somewhere here explaining how to program the D7000 to shoot 9 frame for HDR but its not as efficient as a single click of the shutter to give the 9 shots quickly.

 

[SensePhoto]

Why cant you just take the 3 exposures then move the bracket over one stop and take another 3 exposures, thats what i do when needed on my canon, not a big deal...

 

[mjhoward]

To me, taking only 3 exposures and manually moving a dial on my camera is just as tedious as what you've depicted here.

Doesn't seem any more tedious than pulling the camera out of the bag and taking the lens cap off. How do you watch TV? If turning a dial and clicking the shutter is too tedious for you, then perhaps you should look into something other than photography.

 

[Bynx]

Why cant you just take the 3 exposures then move the bracket over one stop and take another 3 exposures, thats what i do when needed on my canon, not a big deal...

I think the point of having a camera that will take the 5, 7, or 9 shots simultaneously is speed. Ideally you want all 9 shots at once. Not possible, so whats the quickest way then? Playing with knobs and clicking buttons? I dont think so. A single click of the shutter and anything more than that can cause problems.

 

[Majeed Badizadegan]

I agree with Sparky when he says 3-frame AEB is not really designed for the HDR enthusiast. 3 shots are ok for a simple flat lighting situation, but if there is a lot of contrast -- very bright and very dark areas, then a lot more than 3 exposures are needed to get a nice looking HDR image. While the D7000 has a simple 3 shot AEB function as I have previously said, the 2 User modes in conjunction with the Auto mode can be programmed to give a 5, 7 or 9 shot series for HDR. There is a post I made somewhere here explaining how to program the D7000 to shoot 9 frame for HDR but its not as efficient as a single click of the shutter to give the 9 shots quickly.

Thank you Bynx. And as I've outlined in detail, I'm not particular fond of anything that isn't a single click AEB for cost of time and camera shake reasons.

This is only your opinion, so I will readily and summarily dismiss it as you know absolutely nothing about anything.

I'm sorry you have such deep issues regarding the matter. Perhaps professional help may be needed. If you don't want to read what I have to say, there's remedies available to you. But perhaps you can open your mind and listen to what others have to say instead of pretending you're such a freaking expert on everything.

But maybe the D7k doesn't need more than 3 EVs for AEB because a competent photographer SHOULD be able to get close enough to a CORRECT exposure that there's no need for more than 3 frames.

So I will repeat myself, the 3-frame AEB is not designed to accommodate HDR enthusiasts.

As for you, I feel sorry for you. I truly do.

That said, I am done with the matter.

Fare thee well.

Fortunately for me my opinion is aligned with professional, high end HDR photographers, while yours is of a frantic troll that obviously has very little knowledge pertaining the topic at hand.

Holy crap this thread is Troll's gold.

Hey OP... your attitude is pretty much absolute sh1t.

You have a pretty interesting point which did bring up a nice idea from someone else, which I agree with... which is that it would be nice to be able to configure AEB to do exactly what you want... that way photographers could set it to their general preferences... possibly even have multiple preferences. Without that, however, I find that most photographers with any amount of experience do not find AEB very useful. I, for one, have never used it... for HDRs or anything.

You may find my attitude in this thread less than pleasant and I will attribute this to the fact that there are trolls in the world like Sparky480 who would rather word vomit a bunch of nonsense and irrelevant information/opinions instead of carefully examining the points in the original post and crafting a response that has any pertinence and/or value to the topic.

In response to your comment about AEB, you can start the video below at around 8:55 and Trey Ratcliff explains a perfect situation where he uses AEB. In fact, you can start the video anywhere, because the whole time he's using AEB. Would you say Trey Ratcliff is a photographer with "any amount of experience"? Or do you personally find more success with your photography? Let me add your Google+ account with 100,000+ followers. Or link me to where I can purchase your prints for $700 a piece. Thanks.

Unfortunately, however, because of your posture, you're just coming off like an arse.

Perhaps it's because I have low tolerance for fools?

Can AEB be used for HDR? Sure. Is it the explicit purpose for it? I think that's a little hard for any one of us to say. I did some research on it years back because, honestly, it always seemed exceptionally lazy to me to use it for anything... and most things I found referenced it as "something you use when you're not sure of your exposure". Some people were using it for HDR, sure... but it seemed like that wasn't the common consensus about it's purpose. If you assert otherwise, I'd challenge you to cite your source. If you can't, then I call blowhard.

I'm so glad "a few years back" you did "some research" on this topic. That really helps your credibility here. Since you are too lazy to do a simple Google search and find out that I'm not the only one who takes issue with Canon's artificial hampering of this feature, I've done some for you
Will Future Canon's offer more than 3 AEB??
Along with other articles I've already provided (and I'm not going to repeat myself) this should be plenty to "cite my source". This is a common gripe for those who are serious about HDR and shoot Canon.

All I really see from you is someone who wants to thump their chest in a crowd and make themselves look big by calling the big bad Camera manufacturer stupid for daring to dis your brilliance as an HDR photographer ... by not giving you an automated tool to do your work for you? And you defend your point further by suggesting that your brilliance cannot afford the obvious solution to your perfection requirements, which is a $100 some odd dollar cable that allows you to control those settings without touching the camera? Seriously? Dude. Back up the truck. If you rock the party so badly that you need such precision, you better man up and buy you a cable. Otherwise, I think it's time for you to pack up your toys and go home.

Apparently you are perfectly fine with Camera manufacturers artificially choking features; to the point where it doesn't even make sense from a direct competitive standpoint.
Auto Exposure Bracketing by camera model I'm not interested in dumping 5k on a 1D body because Canon can't pony up and include a simple feature in their mid-high to high end bodies.

I can tell you for a fact that I've been around the block with cameras and HDRs at this point, and I have not seen one iota of quality issues from touching my camera... and I'm a guy who does a shutter lock-up when he takes a night exposure. Maybe your HDRs are better than mine, but you know what... I doubt it.

I sincerely doubt that you've been "around the block" with cameras and HDRs. You've maybe driven by the block once, but you lack fundamental knowledge and understanding of the main concepts of HDR. I think you give yourself too much credit. And I surely am not going to get in a pissing match with you because you've already wasted enough of my time.

If all you're looking for is to make your ridiculous little stump speech and shout at the rain, by all means feel free to do so. However, I suggest you back the frick off of people who dare to offer you an opposing viewpoint, because from where I sit, they know a frack-ton more than you do.

If people are too lazy and incoherent to form a reasonable response that reflects any competence beyond some inflated and misfound opinion, then of course I'm going to set them straight.
Here's an opposing viewpoint for you:
Your name on thephotoforum.com is not manaheim. See, I don't have to substantiate my claim. I don't have to cite my source. I am just expressing an opinion and you need to back frick off of me. It's perfectly fine that I obviously don't know what the hell I'm talking about. My opinion should not be disputed, because all opinions are gold and have equal merit and the world is rainbows and butterflies.

Funny that you mention viewpoints. From my viewpoint, you have not the slightest clue "what the frack" YOU are talking about.

:thumbdown:

:thumbup:

 

[Majeed Badizadegan]

To me, taking only 3 exposures and manually moving a dial on my camera is just as tedious as what you've depicted here.

Doesn't seem any more tedious than pulling the camera out of the bag and taking the lens cap off. How do you watch TV? If turning a dial and clicking the shutter is too tedious for you, then perhaps you should look into something other than photography.

Why cant you just take the 3 exposures then move the bracket over one stop and take another 3 exposures, thats what i do when needed on my canon, not a big deal...

I've already explained my reasoning, cited other sources that further flush this reasoning, and I don't feel like repeating myself because you cannot read.

 

[mjhoward]

I've already explained my reasoning, cited other sources that further flush this reasoning, and I don't feel like repeating myself because you cannot read.

I can read just fine. I also don't need 'cited sources' for reasoning as I rely on experience. In my experience, 99% of the scenes I want to capture an HDR of, I'm easily able to get 9 trouble-free exposures by clicking the shutter 3 times for three different 3AEB sequences, it really takes less than a second for the 2 extra dial turns and shutter clicks. The camera shake isn't there either, a solid tripod and/or a $10 remote remedies that. For the remaining 1%, the scene is moving fast enough to have differences between frames or blur from shutter speeds that are too slow for stopping that motion anyway.

Good luck here on TPF with that attitude. :thumbup:

 

[Arch]

Well this has turned out messy.

OP im afraid you are being a little too defensive and now won't listen to anyone.
408Sparky's comment.... 'I think AEB is more designed to bracket the exposures to the user is more likely to capture ONE frame that has the 'correct' exposure, not to cater to the HDR crowd. In tricky lighting situations where the subject is far darker or lighter than the background is the purpose of AEB.'... is completely correct, but you seem to dismiss it.

This is how it is.. HDR is not that important to a professional photographer, some see it as simply a passing fad. The purpose of bracketing is to help you capture the correct exposure, not to sit in a field and be able to create HDR's (which remember is also a new and largely gimmiky idea since even the purpose of 'traditional' HDR is being able to create an exposure of a very difficult light situtation i.e. the inside of a church, not of a windy field), so from Canon's point of view this is a very low priority.

I have personally never used bracketing for a HDR image anyway, a careful turn of the dial and a remote release has always been adequate, but then i have also only used HDR for difficult light situations which haven't often been outdoors, so movement is virtually non exsistant.

Canon haven't missed a trick here, they are just not catering for a very small minority of people that want to play around with this technique and are reluctant to use manual settings. I suppose if they did extend the amount of bracketed exposures it would be a nice touch to add to thier range but the majority of users won't notice it.

 

[Majeed Badizadegan]

Well this has turned out messy.

OP im afraid you are being a little too defensive and now won't listen to anyone.
408Sparky's comment.... 'I think AEB is more designed to bracket the exposures to the user is more likely to capture ONE frame that has the 'correct' exposure, not to cater to the HDR crowd. In tricky lighting situations where the subject is far darker or lighter than the background is the purpose of AEB.'... is completely correct, but you seem to dismiss it.

This is how it is.. HDR is not that important to a professional photographer, some see it as simply a passing fad. The purpose of bracketing is to help you capture the correct exposure, not to sit in a field and be able to create HDR's (which remember is also a new and largely gimmiky idea since even the purpose of 'traditional' HDR is being able to create an exposure of a very difficult light situtation i.e. the inside of a church, not of a windy field), so from Canon's point of view this is a very low priority.

I have personally never used bracketing for a HDR image anyway, a careful turn of the dial and a remote release has always been adequate, but then i have also only used HDR for difficult light situations which haven't often been outdoors, so movement is virtually non exsistant.

Canon haven't missed a trick here, they are just not catering for a very small minority of people that want to play around with this technique and are reluctant to use manual settings. I suppose if they did extend the amount of bracketed exposures it would be a nice touch to add to thier range but the majority of users won't notice it.

First, thank you for breathing a bit of fresh air into the thread. I am reasonable if I'm dealing with reasonable people.

I think it honestly comes down to how much value a person places into HDR technique of photography. As I mentioned, HDR processing can easily be overcooked and look unrealistic. But being able to collect much more light information at a scene with a particularly challenging light situation will always result in a better image (if processed correctly).

To me, HDR brings photography closer to what the human eye is capable of sorting and seeing. We take for granted that looking down a long, dark hallway we can easily sort the dark room we stand in, the light within the hall, and the light at the end of the hall. We don't realize that looking down over a breath-taking vista our eyes can account for the sky, the depth of field, the color, and the highlights and shadows in harmony. Camera sensors simply have limitations and that's where HDR bridges the gap and allows images to come to life.

To remark on your comment about the importance of HDR to professional photographers, I would be reluctant to make a sweeping statement such as you have that it is not important to them. I would direct you to Trey's video, specifically start watching at 8:55. Do you honestly think the final image he achieved could have come from 3 exposures or less? I highly doubt it. Moreover, he utilizes HDR in the majority of his images and he has a massive following. It is a discredit to his work and style to say that HDR bracketing is about getting "one" correct exposure out of an AEB. Programs like Photomatix Pro and Adobe CS5 HDR PRO (best used in unison) bring all the exposures together and pull shadows and highlights into one composite image.

Personally, I do not believe HDR to be a passing fad because it is a technique that is highly relevant in many light situations.

Canon's misstep is ignoring the rising popularity of such features, while Nikon has an abundance of cameras from their mid-range to flagship that have the AEB 2-9 built-in capabilities. Canon only offers this feature on their expensive flagship models.

Thanks for your comment and though I disagree with some of the things you say, I believe you gave a fair consideration to the points I was trying to make and that's all I was hoping for in the first place.

Oh and P.S. I have nothing against a remote, but I don't want to be turning my dial during an exposure stack due to time and camera shake considerations

 

[Cheex]

To me, taking only 3 exposures and manually moving a dial on my camera is just as tedious as what you've depicted here.

Doesn't seem any more tedious than pulling the camera out of the bag and taking the lens cap off. How do you watch TV? If turning a dial and clicking the shutter is too tedious for you, then perhaps you should look into something other than photography.

Absolutely ridiculous. Let's use your example of a TV:

The OP Is fine with turning his TV on, but instead of using the arrow button to scroll through the pages on the guide he wants a page button. MAKES SENSE TO ME. Just because you might not use the guide, don't dismiss the fact that some people recognize the convenience of such a feature.