Help on the Mamiya rz67 pro ii

[psreilly]

So i'm new to MF and i'm using a Mamiya rz67 pro ii unit. At the moment I don't have a light meter or the prism finder, so I can't see my reading digitally. So i'm going with basically what I see. My question is why is it always said that you should keep an f-stop of f/16 (sunny 16 rule) with 100-125 shutter speed and 100 ISO for "Perfect light" or damn near close? I mean i'm going for a look of my own which may not be in the best interest of going by that rule. Is that rule just there to kind of give you a general idea of what would be considered correct lighting? Cause I prefer a little bit of overexposure, just a slight meaning that my shutter speed may not ideally match up with ISO or my f/stop. Any help on this matter would be appreciated as i'm kind of confused. The shoot I have coming up is just a simple portrait underneath trees with a good amount of shade. So I don't plan on going above a f/8 and my ISO at 100 with a shutter speed at 100-250. Is that just so wrong when comparing it to the 16 rule?

 

[Derrel]

The rule is a guideline for bright sunlight. On light sand or snow, use f/22 at the shutter speed that is equal to the ISO value of the film, since snow/sand is "very bright".

I'll type out some equivalents, all with ISO 100 film: [f/22 at 1/50] [f/16 at 1/100] [f/11 at 1/200] [f/8 at 1/400] [f/5.6 at 1/800] [f/4 at 1/1600]

In shade under trees in the summer, if the shade is not "too shady", you will need to "open up" the lens diaphragm at least 4 f/stops' worth, so instead of f/16 at 1/100 second, you'd be at something along the lines of f/4 or thereabouts, still at 1/100 second.

Here's a short article you might find helpful. Exposure

 

[psreilly]

Cool. Thanks. Just one more question on the shutter speed in relation to the f-stop. The camera doesn't have a shutter speed over 400. So say I wanted to shoot f/5.6 at 1/400th instead of 1/100th would that just come out horrible? Or more just a matter of personal taste?

 

[Derrel]

If you are using color negative film (the kind that makes color PRINTS), you want to OVER-expose it, rather than under-expose it. In the shade, if you want to maintain a fast shutter speed like 1/400, at f/5.6, then shooting with FASTER film, like Kodak or Fuji ISO 400 color print film, would be a VERY good idea.

If the light were in shade, and ISO 100 film needed an f/stop of f/4, with a shutter speed of 1/100 second, using a shutter speed of 1/400 instead of the recommended 1/100 speed, would cause a two-f/stop UNDER-exposure, and that would indeed look bad.

When shot in medium-format cameras, 400 ISO color print film looks VERY nice, and for work in the shade, I would recommend that you buy and use ISO 400 film.

 

[psreilly]

Ok that makes sense. Appreciate it

 

[radiorickm]

There are a couple of things you need to understand. The first, is the law of reciprocity. Conveniently, the shutter speeds, and apertures are referred to in "stops". This being said, there are many combinations of shutter speed and apertures that will achieve a correct exposure. So, lets take for example your "Sunny 16" rule example.

Using 100ISO, on a bright sunny day, use 1/125 @ F16 to obtain a relative correct exposure. BUT you can also use 1/250@f11, 1/500@f8, or 1/60@f22. IF you double the shutter speed (letting in twice as much light) you must cut the aperture in half to "equal" the exposure out and make it the same. Add one stop of shutter, remove 1 stop of aperture. Knowing this, you can adjust your shutter speed and/or aperture as needed.

The "Sunny 16" rule is just a guideline to get you started. I haven't bought film in a while, but there is a guide chart printed inside the box that this refers to. There are other "guideline" too.....in journalism it's " F8 and be there!" . You need to learn, for instance, when in shade, you need to add 2-4 stops to the "Sunny 16" rule. IF you like slightly over exposed pictures, then you have a starting point.

Of course, when you are "guessing" on film, it's best to bracket the exposures.

I shot for 2 years with NO light meter on 35mm film using the "Sunny 16" rules, and did pretty well. BUT you need a really good understand of the relationship between film speed/aperture/shutter speed (in digital it's called the exposure triangle) to know how to move around and get the settings you want.

Good Luck and keep shooting.

 

[psreilly]

Ok I mean I understand, but I just get confused as to what to do if my f stop falls below f/8 since the mamiya rz67 pro ii doesn't have a shutter speed above 400. Then the chart gets confusing to me since there's no more shutter speeds to go to. But Derrel above explained it pretty well. Thanks for the answer. This is the place to be for these kinds of questions I can tell haha

 

[Mike_E]

This would be worth your while to read.. Ultimate Exposure Computer

If you have a warming filter you might think about using it. Subjects under shade tend to be a bit cooler.

There is also a film section in this forum where you could get more specific information on using your RB.

 

[psreilly]

This would be worth your while to read.. Ultimate Exposure Computer

If you have a warming filter you might think about using it. Subjects under shade tend to be a bit cooler.

There is also a film section in this forum where you could get more specific information on using your RB.

Thanks i'll be sure to check it out. And unfortunately I don't have any type of reading on the Rz67. I don't have the prism finder cause I prefer the waist level meaning I won't get the readings in the prism finder. I don't know why, but I don't feel like i'm getting the rz67 pro ii experience if I just snap a prism on top of it. Sure it would be easier though. My plan is to just put in a couple Ilford delta 100s and experiment with the f/stops and shutter speed. Since the shutter doesn't go above 400 there isn't much to experiment with, but then again i'm not really using this for anything "action" paced, so I should be fine with 1/400th as the highest speed

Found this site which is helping a bunch http://web.forret.com/tools/aperture.asp?shutter=1/60&aperture=f/4&iso=100&focal=13.4

 

[Derrel]

The web page you linked to above looks like it would be very helpful to a new shooter! Prism finder vs waist-level...I grew up with a number of waist-level medium format TLR cameras...my first 120 SLR was a Bronica, with both waist-level and metering, eye-level prism options...I vastly prefer the eye-level finder for focusing and viewing...to me it was always the easier way to go. No shame in using an eye-level prism, and on my camera, only the eye-level prism option gave in-between shutter speed options.

The RZ was conceived mostly as a studio and flash camera, and so the top speed of 1/400 was not viewed as much of an "issue". Film speed is another way to compensate for the top speed's limitation; in bright light, one would use slow-speed film, like ISO 64 or 50 film.

 

[amolitor]

If you have a camera with a meter in it, you can use that camera to tell you what exposure to use.

Just be sure to either have the same ISO set in it, or compensate accordingly.

 

[psreilly]

The web page you linked to above looks like it would be very helpful to a new shooter! Prism finder vs waist-level...I grew up with a number of waist-level medium format TLR cameras...my first 120 SLR was a Bronica, with both waist-level and metering, eye-level prism options...I vastly prefer the eye-level finder for focusing and viewing...to me it was always the easier way to go. No shame in using an eye-level prism, and on my camera, only the eye-level prism option gave in-between shutter speed options.

The RZ was conceived mostly as a studio and flash camera, and so the top speed of 1/400 was not viewed as much of an "issue". Film speed is another way to compensate for the top speed's limitation; in bright light, one would use slow-speed film, like ISO 64 or 50 film.

Yeah i'm shooting primarily outside on this one with Delta 100, so i'm interested to see how that reacts to say and f/4 with ISO at 100 and the shutter between 1/100 and 1/125 because I do want a little over exposure

 

[psreilly]

If you have a camera with a meter in it, you can use that camera to tell you what exposure to use.

Just be sure to either have the same ISO set in it, or compensate accordingly.

You're right that's definitely a good idea too. The thought crossed my mind but I kind of shot it down cause I wanna get use to using no meter. To me there would be nothing more satisfying than just having that "eye" for the correct exposure just by looking at light. Of course this will take practice, lots

 

[amolitor]

It's extremely hard, in fact, to really get it right.

Depending on what you're doing, and depending on what kind of shooting you do, you can definitely get close enough. If you tend to be shooting outdoors, and you're not trying for Zone System accuracy, you can definitely do it and lots of people have done and continue to do so.

If you're shooting indoors a lot, it gets a lot harder, since available light cannot be estimated from time of day and weather conditions. It gets harder.

If you're trying for zone system accuracy or in general just don't want blocked up shadows or blown highlights, it's pretty hard as well.

But, the more you shoot, the better you'll be, for sure!

 

[psreilly]

It's extremely hard, in fact, to really get it right.

Depending on what you're doing, and depending on what kind of shooting you do, you can definitely get close enough. If you tend to be shooting outdoors, and you're not trying for Zone System accuracy, you can definitely do it and lots of people have done and continue to do so.

If you're shooting indoors a lot, it gets a lot harder, since available light cannot be estimated from time of day and weather conditions. It gets harder.

If you're trying for zone system accuracy or in general just don't want blocked up shadows or blown highlights, it's pretty hard as well.

But, the more you shoot, the better you'll be, for sure!

Yeah I just need in the general area. I always go for a bit of over exposure anyway in bright sunlight