High end compact ... or DSLR ?

[flygning]

I own a Panasonic DMC FZ18, which is one of those SLR-like point & shoots. It has everything you want. It has both the LCD screen and an electronic viewfinder-- basically a mini LCD. It has a versatile range of focal lengths, from a decent wide angle to a good telephoto (you just tend to need a tripod if you're using the longer focal lengths, but that is pretty much the same with every camera). It has 2 different modes of stabilization, or you can turn that completely off. It has everything from Intelligent Auto, where it controls every single aspect of your photo, through the priority modes, through full manual where you can set ISO up to 1600 or something like that, shutter speed up to 60 seconds, etc etc. It shoots in RAW if you ever decide that is something you want to mess around with. You can even get good bokeh if you step back from your subject and zoom in. A bit of a pain sometimes, but it gets the job done. There are available macro and telephoto add on lenses, but I wouldn't trust them to be worth much.

My only gripe with the camera is the small sensor size (gives a crop factor of about 6x, which basically means you can't get that wide of an angle when you're zoomed all the way out). Look it up on dpreview-- it compares all of its features with the other cameras in that category, and last time I checked it was rated the best.

If I were you I'd go with the advanced P&S. If and when you do decide you're ready to move past the limitations of a sub-slr, you'll have the advanced P&S as your backup camera to use when you feel the need to take video or just don't want to mess with the larger camera.

 

[Bifurcator]

Also to get an idea of what these "small" sensors look like in practice you can check out my threads here or the same one in the link below. People seemed to actually like the images in this thread.

Maybe some other people using advanced point&shoot cameras can link to some of their threads too?

 

[RyanLilly]

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2004_reviews/a2_qtvr.html
Bifurcator,
Your A2 Has a pretty large sensor, as far a P&S go, It bigger than the G9s. Nice photos BTW.

 

[Bifurcator]

Hehehhe I wish that were true. Alas, it's not tho - read'em and weep:

Essentially this camera is identical to the A1 apart from its sensor, the DiMAGE A1 had a 5 megapixel 2/3" type CCD, the new DiMAGE A2 has an 8 megapixel 2/3" type CCD.

Almost exactly a year after the PowerShot G7 was announced Canon has launched its successor, the PowerShot G9 digital camera. Key changes include the much-requested inclusion of a raw shooting mode, a bright new 3.0-inch screen and a new 12.1MP 1/1.7-inch sensor.

The 2/3" is 8.80mm X 6.60mm the 1.17 is almost the same size at 7.60mm x 6.70mm That's almost the same for all reasonable discussion. The difference in DOF if that's what you're referring to, is going to be fairly negligible. I wanna have a big sensor but it's no where near as important to DOF as people say it is. It sure looks like it is on paper when you apply the math tho - I grant you that.

To put it in practical reference here's a chart that should be pretty close to actual size depending on your monitor:

And thanks for the compliment BTW. It didn't go unnoticed!

 

[Bifurcator]

Here's what you can expect from these things without actually trying to get allot of DOF blur:

This was f/4.0 at 1/200sec. Zoomed to about 190mm (in 35mm equiv.). The pigeons in the BG are about 4 to 4.5 meters (yards) in back of the foreground pigeon. The foreground pigeon is about 4.5 to 5 meters from the camera. The distant rock in the far BG is about 6 or 7 meters from the farthest pigeons or about 17 meters from the camera with the camera focused at ~ 4 meters. And that's at f/4.0 it gets better if you set it to f/2.x too.

 

[RyanLilly]

Ok, its just a little bigger than most, but a little bigger is better than nothing, although I will concede that it probably makes no noticeable effect on DOF.

And To the OP, Bifurcator has shown that really nice shallow dof can be achieved, this is done through good technique. Get as close to the subject as you can, zoom in as far as you can, keep the aperture as wide as you can, and keep the background as far away as you can. It will take some practice, but practicing is fun!

I really like the frature set on those bridge cams listed, especially for the price, also the G9 is a good choice especially is you want something a bit more pocketable, although more like jacket pocket, or a full front pocket of mens jeans.

 

[Bifurcator]

Having Macro on the lens can make a trillion tons of difference too. Especially a macro that will focus a meter or so away.

 

[Zwaf2]

Thanks a ton guys, you've all been more than helpful This really has to be the best forum for photography on the web.

Having Macro on the lens can make a trillion tons of difference too. Especially a macro that will focus a meter or so away.

Yea the G9 has a good macro, 1 cm I read, I'm not sure about how far it will go.

As a final question.. I think the G9 isnt as easily available as the G7. I can get the G7 here in town. I know what the differences are, mainly more MP, raw support and a better LCD. Are these features worth buying the G9 instead of the G7 ? I heard the imagequality got worse on the G9 compared to the G7 since they cramped more MP on the same size sensor.

 

[AverageJoe]

The only area the G7 is superior to the G9 is the price.

 

[Bifurcator]

Thanks a ton guys, you've all been more than helpful This really has to be the best forum for photography on the web.


Yea the G9 has a good macro, 1 cm I read, I'm not sure about how far it will go.

As a final question.. I think the G9 isnt as easily available as the G7. I can get the G7 here in town. I know what the differences are, mainly more MP, raw support and a better LCD. Are these features worth buying the G9 instead of the G7 ? I heard the imagequality got worse on the G9 compared to the G7 since they cramped more MP on the same size sensor.

They did? Hmm, well go to all the review sites and check out the image samples. There must be 20 good sites with samples from both the G7 and the G9.

If you're very interested in the G9 do yourself a favor and check out the Ricoh. They recently made a new model and advertised it here in Japan as "The G9 Killer". It's very popular here.

Personally i wouldn't get either of those cameras because there's no lens barrel. And that means no manual focus, and no manual zoom. And the electronic versions of those via buttons on the back or firmware control are no substitute.. Well, I'll just say it... they suck! It may also mean no filter threads so using various filter attachments isn't possible or will require $pecial adaptors.

The pocket-type cameras are usually missing several important features and their speed is usually quite slow. They often substitute mechanical image stabilization for some digital variant. Mechanical=guuud!, Digital=baad! They cut lots of other corners too - usually ones conducive to a smooth and enjoyable experience with your camera. The SLR-like form-factor models are a cross-breed between the pocketable compact world and the digital SLR world and combine ALL the best of the pocket-world with most of the features from the high-end dSLR world. Their build & image quality (lens, sensor size, ISO|Noise ratio, etc.) is really the only thing stopping them from blowing dSLRs off the map.

Anyway, the G9 has been out for awhile now and should be available in te same shop. If they don't have it in stock you might have to wait a week while they order it is all.

 

[Joves]

So I just heard the new D90 will have (shudder) video capabilities. Sorry Zwarf that will be a tad more than you want to spend.

 

[Bifurcator]

How much will it be going for?

BTW, I think that Casio is a sign of the times... The times where we actually start merging high-end video capabilities with dSLRs. It's about time. Gawd they're slow! I predicted this 15 years ago and only in the last 2 have we gotten reasonable specs in the bridge group.

Humpf!