I LOVE PHOTOSHOP...

[hopdaddy]

Will the "Cloud" be a benchmark that creates a separation between, Working "PRO" and Hobbyist ? The working Photographer will just add the cost in.

 

[KmH]

Promotional pricing for existing CS customers applies to the first year of membership. Offer ends August 31, 2013.

It's only $9.99 for a year.

The second year will be $20 a month, the

Single-app plan — annual
Full version of one desktop application

Adobe didn't want to mention the pirating of their software as part of the reasoning to going to subscription based pricing, just like other companies don't publicize losses due to theft.

 

[e.rose]

Will the "Cloud" be a benchmark that creates a separation between, Working "PRO" and Hobbyist ? The working Photographer will just add the cost in.

I know plenty of working pros that are still upset about it, because adding in the cost means they have to raise their prices which will upset their current clientele.

Not to mention people like me that are in the midsts of BUILDING my business and don't suddenly need yet ANOTHER "subscription service" added onto my expenses that I'm currently paying out of pocket until I can build a steady enough clientele base to not HAVE to pay out of pocket.

I'm not a hobbyist, but I'm also not to the point where I can quit my day job doing photography (and part of that is because I'm becoming more specialized and not so generalized because I hate shootings weddings/families/babies/engagement/etc.).

But even still... like I said, I know people who ARE full time photographers and will just have to add in the costs to their sessions, who aren't happy about the cloud either.

 

[e.rose]

Will the "Cloud" be a benchmark that creates a separation between, Working "PRO" and Hobbyist ? The working Photographer will just add the cost in.

I know plenty of working pros that are still upset about it, because adding in the cost means they have to raise their prices which will upset their current clientele.

Not to mention people like me that are in the midsts of BUILDING my business and don't suddenly need yet ANOTHER "subscription service" added onto my expenses that I'm currently paying out of pocket until I can build a steady enough clientele base to not HAVE to pay out of pocket.

I'm not a hobbyist, but I'm also not to the point where I can quit my day job doing photography (and part of that is because I'm becoming more specialized and not so generalized because I hate shootings weddings/families/babies/engagement/etc.).

But even still... like I said, I know people who ARE full time photographers and will just have to add in the costs to their sessions, who aren't happy about the cloud either.

...BUT... to add to this...

This is part of the reason I'm sticking with CS5.

I shoot with a 5DMKII... I have LR4... my camera is compatible with both CS5 and LR4. I don't plan on upgrading my camera any time soon, so I don't have to worry about compatibility issues with later models. CS5 does what I need it to do right now (and probably for a good long time), and by the time I NEED to upgrade... I will deal with that mess when I get to it. Although I'm secretly hoping a new company will emerge from the shadows and come out with a comparable non-subscription based software that will allow me to switch away from Adobe.

I use LR, PS and ID. So I'd have to pay the full subscription rate vs. just one piece of software.

(But all of that for $600?! What a deal?!)

Except that makes the assumption that I would upgrade my software every time a new one came out, therefore having to re-buy those 3 pieces of software every year... and I absolutely DO NOT... feel the need to upgrade with every new change, so the $50/mo thing is not a good deal for me in the long run. Which is why I hope something else comes out of the woodwork. But if it doesn't... I'll deal with that bridge when I come to it and have to adjust my pricing accordingly... as a little piece of my soul dies.

But I'm just gonna hold onto CS5 and LR4 for dear life until Adobe pries it out of my dying cold hands. Or Canon. Once I upgrade to a different camera (someday way down the line) that won't talk with my current software. :lmao:

 

[cgipson1]

Will the "Cloud" be a benchmark that creates a separation between, Working "PRO" and Hobbyist ? The working Photographer will just add the cost in.

I know plenty of working pros that are still upset about it, because adding in the cost means they have to raise their prices which will upset their current clientele.

Not to mention people like me that are in the midsts of BUILDING my business and don't suddenly need yet ANOTHER "subscription service" added onto my expenses that I'm currently paying out of pocket until I can build a steady enough clientele base to not HAVE to pay out of pocket.

I'm not a hobbyist, but I'm also not to the point where I can quit my day job doing photography (and part of that is because I'm becoming more specialized and not so generalized because I hate shootings weddings/families/babies/engagement/etc.).

But even still... like I said, I know people who ARE full time photographers and will just have to add in the costs to their sessions, who aren't happy about the cloud either.

Raise their prices, and PISS off customers???? Really? That just doesn't make sense....

Lets say they have the $29.99 a month plan. $30.00! If they have 30 client /one hour sessions a month... that means raising prices $1.00 per client (not that anybody could make a decent living on 30 1 hour sessions). If each of those clients orders 10 prints.. that is 10 cents per print. Most clients won't even notice....

and if they have a more realistic number of clients (60, 90, 120, 300)? Then it won't be an issue. Were they complaining about having to drop $600.00 plus to do the same number of clients over a 3 or 4 year period? I doubt it... CODB!

It is just moving the cost to a pretty inexpensive monthy charge, instead of a large chunk of cash every 3 or 4 years! And it is STILL a business write off... so what is the problem?

I could definitely see where it might piss of the 3 hour session for $50 PRO's... but not the real thing!

 

[hopdaddy]

E.Rose ,I believe the majority of Full time photographers are extremely disappointed with Adobe .Tim Grey has been very vocal as well as many others . In the long run ,I feel it will make it harder for people like you getting started ,however if you have CS and others use Gimp will it help you to stand-out and gain more "Higher end" clients?

 

[masquerad101]

Because in time It will be outdated.. I mean If i offered you CS2 and said but look here I have CS6 which would you preferr? Its like sayin ill give you a loaf of bread but if you let me raid your bank account on a monthly basis ill give you the nife to butter it with, but not the butter... that comes next month!

Software only becomes outdated for one of 2 reasons:
1. It will no longer do what you need it to do. This might be because new camera bodies are not supported or new file formats are not formatted. It might be because the files are too large or something along those lines.

2. There are features in newer versions that do things you feel that you need.

Until it gets to the point where you really need to upgrade CS6 just keep using it. I have, among other software, a fairly recent version of Corel Paintshop Pro (version 14). Not the newest but relatively new. I also have version 7 of Paintshop Pro, copyright 2000. I personally prefer to use the old version because it's smaller and much, much faster and easier to use.

By the time that happens there may be something as good or better on the market, you may decide you don't need the newer features, your finances might improve, many things could happen.

Personally I don't care for Photoshop. I have CS6, I have Lightroom, I have DxO Optics 7, I have Corel Paintshop Pro, I have Corel Aftershot (formerly Bibble 5), and I have Nikon Capture NX2. Of all those I personally prefer Nikon Capture NX2 and it is pretty much all I use. I use Paintshop Pro for a few tools, I occasionally use ACR when I get into a tough RAW conversion. You never know what will come along that tickles your fancy..

#

Please, I would love to know any tyechniques using NX2? You see I am an ameture, I have spent 7 years practicing Photoshop and I have just went from canon to fujifilm to nikon so any advice would br greatly appreaciated.

 

[Derrel]

It's a great way to not need to update anything to attract new customers, but to continually bilk $29 or $39 or $49 or $59 a month from people who are foolish enough to stick with Adobe for month after month, for years on end. Of course, stupid people also rent furniture from Aarron's Furniture for $50 a month for years on end, instead of just BUYING it. and stupid people also lease cars and pay tens of thousands of dollars for cars that they later have to GIVE back!! lol It's kind of a ghetto type thing, people who don't see the value in actually owning anything, but just adding another monthly expense to their credit card, and watching the prices go up and up and up for years on end.

Adobe just gave three large software companies a HUGE, HUGE incentive. The lock position that Adobe once enjoyed on the market just cracked. In a big,big way.

 

[hopdaddy]

It's a great way to not need to update anything to attract new customers, but to continually bilk $29 or $39 or $49 or $59 a month from people who are foolish enough to stick with Adobe for month after month, for years on end. Of course, stupid people also rent furniture from Aarron's Furniture for $50 a month for years on end, instead of just BUYING it. and stupid people also lease cars and pay tens of thousands of dollars for cars that they later have to GIVE back!! lol It's kind of a ghetto type thing, people who don't see the value in actually owning anything, but just adding another monthly expense to their credit card, and watching the prices go up and up and up for years on end.

Adobe just gave three large software companies a HUGE, HUGE incentive. The lock position that Adobe once enjoyed on the market just cracked. In a big,big way.

I hope your bottom line is correct ,But as for the "Stupid" part .I have a choice to rent from Aarrons or not . I don't have that same option IF I stay with Adobe . My Real question again ,Will CS make enough of a difference to pass on the cost? I am sure the price will creep . In a market that is in despair already...will out sourcing be the answer? I have a Family member that has always sent His stuff out ,but now to save on cost he started doing his own Touch-ups. That was before the cloud. He shoots School Kids (That is always fun to say ) If the price moves up very quickly ,He might be better off going back to completely outsourcing .

 

[e.rose]

Will the "Cloud" be a benchmark that creates a separation between, Working "PRO" and Hobbyist ? The working Photographer will just add the cost in.

I know plenty of working pros that are still upset about it, because adding in the cost means they have to raise their prices which will upset their current clientele.

Not to mention people like me that are in the midsts of BUILDING my business and don't suddenly need yet ANOTHER "subscription service" added onto my expenses that I'm currently paying out of pocket until I can build a steady enough clientele base to not HAVE to pay out of pocket.

I'm not a hobbyist, but I'm also not to the point where I can quit my day job doing photography (and part of that is because I'm becoming more specialized and not so generalized because I hate shootings weddings/families/babies/engagement/etc.).

But even still... like I said, I know people who ARE full time photographers and will just have to add in the costs to their sessions, who aren't happy about the cloud either.

Raise their prices, and PISS off customers???? Really? That just doesn't make sense....

Lets say they have the $29.99 a month plan. $30.00! If they have 30 client /one hour sessions a month... that means raising prices $1.00 per client (not that anybody could make a decent living on 30 1 hour sessions). If each of those clients orders 10 prints.. that is 10 cents per print. Most clients won't even notice....

and if they have a more realistic number of clients (60, 90, 120, 300)? Then it won't be an issue. Were they complaining about having to drop $600.00 plus to do the same number of clients over a 3 or 4 year period? I doubt it... CODB!

It is just moving the cost to a pretty inexpensive monthy charge, instead of a large chunk of cash every 3 or 4 years! And it is STILL a business write off... so what is the problem?

I could definitely see where it might piss of the 3 hour session for $50 PRO's... but not the real thing!

Dude... there's no way in HELL I'm doing 30 clients a MONTH. Not with the way I'm doing things.

And yeah I'd MUCH rather pay a large chunk every 5 years for something I own and can continue to be able to open my .psd files with, without having to worry about that ability being taken away the second I stop paying a subscription fee, than have the latest and greatest update every year.

And a business write-off doesn't mean I get all that money back.

If you love the cloud more power to you, but I'm avoiding it for as long as humanly possible.

 

[e.rose]

E.Rose ,I believe the majority of Full time photographers are extremely disappointed with Adobe .Tim Grey has been very vocal as well as many others . In the long run ,I feel it will make it harder for people like you getting started ,however if you have CS and others use Gimp will it help you to stand-out and gain more "Higher end" clients?

I don't necessarily think that having CS vs. Gimp is going to make a difference to clients. They don't see what you're editing with, and people can do some amazing things with GIMP. *I* personally don't like it after having CS5... but I'll just stick with CS5, that's all. I won't have to switch to GIMP because I already have CS5... and I won't have to upgrade to the cloud, because... I already have CS5... and my equipment is compatible with it.

But yes, you're right... I've heard more complaints about it across the board... from full time working photographers (who charge normal rates and not the $50 gets you all) than I have heard positive things.

 

[e.rose]

It's a great way to not need to update anything to attract new customers, but to continually bilk $29 or $39 or $49 or $59 a month from people who are foolish enough to stick with Adobe for month after month, for years on end. Of course, stupid people also rent furniture from Aarron's Furniture for $50 a month for years on end, instead of just BUYING it. and stupid people also lease cars and pay tens of thousands of dollars for cars that they later have to GIVE back!! lol It's kind of a ghetto type thing, people who don't see the value in actually owning anything, but just adding another monthly expense to their credit card, and watching the prices go up and up and up for years on end.

Adobe just gave three large software companies a HUGE, HUGE incentive. The lock position that Adobe once enjoyed on the market just cracked. In a big,big way.

Exactly. ::highfive::

(Historians better write this into the books man... I am on the same page as Derrel! :lmao: :hug:: )

 

[SCraig]

Please, I would love to know any tyechniques using NX2? You see I am an ameture, I have spent 7 years practicing Photoshop and I have just went from canon to fujifilm to nikon so any advice would br greatly appreaciated.

It's hard to capsulize it into a few lines on a forum post. The best advice I can give is to Download The Latest NX2, install it, and try it for yourself. If you have questions feel free to send me a PM and I'll try and help you out.

In a nutshell, most of the common tools for manipulating photographs are there. NX2 does leave some commonly used tools out, for example there is no clone tool, and that's why I still use Paintshop Pro or Photoshop on occasion. Everything you do to a file in NX2 is a non-destructive edit. Much like an adjustment layer in CS6. If you don't like what the adjustment does then just turn it off or delete it and the file remains unchanged. If you save the file as a RAW file (.NEF) then your adjustments remain as non-destructive edits, much like a PSD file. If you save the image as a JPEG or TIFF or anything other than a NEF then the edits are written to the file and become permanent.

 

[Buckster]

I have CS6 and LR4. I upgraded to them when they came out, just like I always upgraded Photoshop when Adobe came out with the new versions, something I've done for I don't know how many years and versions now - lots. So, to those arguing with my math that to buy it costs $600, pull your head out of your butt - I haven't paid full pop for Photoshop in so many years, I can't even remember the first version I bought, and it's been relatively inexpensive upgrades ever since - THAT'S the price point they have to meet or beat to get me on board, and they're not even close.

I'll upgrade to LR5 probably this month, and that's likely the last dollar of mine Adobe will ever get. I'll use what I have until there's some reason it will no longer work, if that ever happens, and then I'll assess the situation given the software options available at that time. I suspect other companies will fill the void Adobe has created with this scheme, and they should be looking pretty good as solution a few years from now, when it might matter to me.

I don't worry that I'll miss out on new features from Adobe. The current Adobe software I have is mega-awesome already, and works just great for me, and that won't change - it is what it is, and will be as good as it is now for as long as I can use it. I really do love it - no two ways about it. After all these years of working with it, it's practically an extension of me.

But even with all the time, effort and money I put into buying, upgrading and learning to use it over the years, I can walk away from Adobe even faster than I did any of my 3 ex-wives, especially seeing as how they did things to try to get me to stay that Adobe will never be able to come close to matching!

I worry more that a future OS will lock me out of the current software, like trying to play an old DOS game on a new machine today - it just doesn't always work. If that happens, it will mean either maintaining an old machine and OS just to keep working, getting a replacement editing software from another company and learning how to use it, or joining the BS Adobe "cloud" subscription service for as low a rate as I can get at that time. Frankly, I'd probably pay more for some other software, rather than go crawling back to the ***** that cheated on me, which is how I currently feel about Adobe - like it cheated on me after all we've been through together over the years.

In any case, I expect it to be at least several years before I have to cross that bridge, and I might not even live that long, so I'm not going to spend much energy thinking or worrying about it now.

In all honestly, if the CC price structure for Photoshop alone (which is all I'm interested in from the "cloud" subscription service) was in line with what I paid for upgrades every 18 months or so, I wouldn't have a problem at all with their subscription scheme. But that's not the case. I've done the math, and it's a monetary bend-over without lube.

I'm also a little peeved that they even call it "Creative Cloud", like it's just a part of the new, trendy "cloud" thing, when it's nothing of the sort. It's a subscription service, nothing more, nothing less. You DL the full software and install it on your machine, where it takes up all the space it ever has, and it simply phones home over the net to verify it's licensed whenever you fire it up. You can even run it for a month at a time offline without it shutting down over not getting Mommy Adobe's acknowledgement that it's legit.

And I wouldn't want it to work any other way, frankly. I want that software running locally so that I don't have to be online to use it, or wait crazy times because of network congestion or the damn cable service going out, waiting for an operation to complete and send me back the data, and crazy crap like that, which I'd expect from a true "cloud" solution where the software is on a central server and I pass data back and forth to it to do edits and get results. That's not the issue though. The issue is one of implying that we're stupid enough to buy into a marketing ploy by calling it what they did. It's simply not a "cloud" service, so don't try to BS me with marketing crap - just call it what it is: A subscription service.

Anyway, that's where I'm at with it. I'm disappointed with Adobe, mostly over the jacked-up price of my standalone Photoshop upgrades, but I don't think it's honestly going to affect me much - I'm simply going to keep rocking my current CS6 and LR5 into the foreseeable future, and Adobe can shove their subscription fees up their feature upgrade pipes.

 

[molested_cow]

I was using MS office 97 up until a year ago. Yes, I was using a 1997 software until 2012. Why? It was stable, met my needs and it was affordable (softwares were much cheaper back then). While I wasn't pirating, I bet MS hates me more than those who do.

Ok, to the CS/CC issue. IF YOU THINK ADOBE MAKES MONEY FROM YOU INDIVIDUALS, YOU ARE WRONG!
Adobe doesn't care about individual photographers or hobbyists or students. They KNOW they won't make money from you/me because of many reasons. Adobe makes money from corporate users who are STABLE customers who really have no where else to turn to. The CS suite is really irreplaceable and a vital money-making tool for pretty much any company with a design or marketing department. Companies that I used to work for would jump on the latest versions of CS without much thought, with some who may skip one version if they don't see how the new improvements justify the cost. So Adobe got smart by making them pay on a consistent basis so corporate customers cannot "skip their payments".

Also, when a customer buys a CS license, they can use it forever. That won't work with CC. Now CC's licensing concept is not new. I used to use this 3D surfacing software called Alias ( car designers use it ) and they go by annual licensing of about USD20k a year. Yes, TWENTY THOUSAND DOLLARS PER SEAT A YEAR! Of course you can keep using it after the year ends, but you get zero technical support, which is vital to many companies trying to get things done on time. So car companies dish out the money year after year.

So stop being pissed at Adobe. They don't care. BTW the CC version has already been cracked by someone.... the war rages on.