I SO SO SO want this! CC? I've been studying and practicing

Kerbouchard · Dec 10, 2011

fjrabon said:
Kerbouchard said:

As far as the mob mentality being selective, I believe I am one of the only ones going against the grain and giving advice to the OP about how to get better quickly instead of just telling her she is going too fast.

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I don't think the OP's issue is that she is going too fast, it's that she isn't really doing anything with her practice time. Which I don't think is something she realizes. I think OP has fallen under the spell of "if I just take a LOT of pictures I'll get better, practice makes perfect!" Which is very counter productive, IMHO. I think OP started taking photography seriously about the same time I did. I don't think it's absurd that she would be working in a speedlight at this juncture. But the problem is, I think at least, that she's just piling things on, hoping they fix other issues, without actually ever really thinking very hard about fixing those issues.

I agree with you that adding in a speedlight occasionally shouldn't be that big of a deal. However, she needs to think about what she's doing with it a lot more. It is pretty evident that she just stuck the sucker on there and fired er up and let er rip. Which, I mean I guess we all did that at first. But my point was that she should have looked at those photos and said 'wow, really cooked her face on that one, let me read my manual and figure out how to turn this sucker down.'

I don't disagree with anything you said there.

Just one thing to consider, the OP specifically said she didn't bounce the flash because of advice that she had read on a forum not to bounce off of non-white walls and ceilings. That isn't good advice. There are very few surfaces that can't be bounced off of to get proper results if shooting RAW.

In any case, no, taking a thousand photos in the same exact way and hoping to get better is ridiculous, but that's not what I gather from the OP. I think she is reading a lot of forums, studying a lot, and just doesn't know what advice to discard and which to keep.

In this very thread we have advice regarding proper settings using flash to advice saying just crank up the ISO to 6400.

Personally, I think the OP is trying. I think she is trying to learn everything she can. I think she just needs a better BS filter so that she can have more confidence in ignoring some of the poor advice that she gets.

fjrabon · Dec 10, 2011

Kerbouchard said:
I don't disagree with anything you said there.

Just one thing to consider, the OP specifically said she didn't bounce the flash because of advice that she had read on a forum not to bounce off of non-white walls and ceilings. That isn't good advice. There are very few surfaces that can't be bounced off of to get proper results if shooting RAW.

In any case, no, taking a thousand photos in the same exact way and hoping to get better is ridiculous, but that's not what I gather from the OP. I think she is reading a lot of forums, studying a lot, and just doesn't know what advice to discard and which to keep.

In this very thread we have advice regarding proper settings using flash to advice saying just crank up the ISO to 6400.

Personally, I think the OP is trying. I think she is trying to learn everything she can. I think she just needs a better BS filter so that she can have more confidence in ignoring some of the poor advice that she gets.

Mostly agree. As much as I like this forum, I generally find as far as pure learning goes, you're better off going old fashioned and getting the basics from books. Then when you're confident enough in the basics, you can venture a bit more into these waters. You learn things a lot more clearly if you just put in a few thousand pages worth of reading of Kelby's books, with Freeman's books and then one of the add on guides to your camera, IMHO, than trying to wade through all the advice here.

I also didn't mean to imply that I didn't think the OP was trying, I was trying to say that the OP doesn't really have a plan when it comes to taking photographs, which is the most fundamental issue she has of all, IMHO.

Kerbouchard · Dec 10, 2011

MTVision said:
Kerbouchard said:

Leave my ring alone...

And no, piling on is never ok. The only time I post things like I did are when people are harassing the OP, haven't read the entire thread, provide misinformation and have been liked by Bitter Jewler or O Hey Tyler. Other than that, I pretty much let it go. Also, I don't think I can be accused of 'piling on' when I am the first one to say something is wrong. Perhaps another use of 'poor phrasing'?

As far as the mob mentality being selective, I believe I am one of the only ones going against the grain and giving advice to the OP about how to get better quickly instead of just telling her she is going too fast.

My apologies if I hurt hurt your feelings. Just go back and read from the start of this thread and imagine what the OP feels considering all the crap that was thrown her way.

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The whole thing with focus - it obviously isn't about lack of light since she's been using her pop-up pretty much the whole time indoors - which is really no different then what she did in these photos. That's what all the replies were about. This is the 8th thread about focus and basically was given all the same advice. Going too fast in terms of trying to do everything at once. A speedlight is great and will help but it's not going to solve all the issues.

Again, horrible advice and it demonstrates a lack of understanding of what we are talking about. You say that it isn't a lack of light since she's been using her pop up flash...what could that possibly have to do with focusing? Hopefully, you don't think the camera achieves focus during the split second that the pop up flash fires.

On the other hand, a speedlight has a focus assist cross beam that it projects to give the AF module something to lock on to. A pop up flash does not.

Focus issues are always one of three things.
1) Lack of contrast
2) Lack of light for the focusing module to see the contrast
3) Equipment malfunction

The first and second can be corrected by a speedlight. At this point, I'm not ruling out #3.

MTVision · Dec 10, 2011

Well I have a built in af assist light for my pop-up. So why can't she focus outdoors with plenty of light? Because she doesn't have an af-assist light on a speedlight?

Oh she can nail focus in her dark house on a non-moving object.

Kerbouchard · Dec 10, 2011

MTVision said:
Well I have a built in af assist light for my pop-up. So why can't she focus outdoors with plenty of light? Because she doesn't have an af-assist light on a speedlight?

Oh she can nail focus in her dark house on a non-moving object.

The built in AF-assist light on your camera is completly different than the AF assist on a speedlight. One is an annoying bright light. One is a red grid. Not even in the same ballpark.

As far as why she can't focus outdoors with plenty of light, I would say it is either a lack of contrast, equipment error, using too shallow of a DOF, or using a setting like AF-A where the camera picks the focus. Not many other options out there.

MTVision · Dec 10, 2011

Kerbouchard said:
The built in AF-assist light on your camera is completly different than the AF assist on a speedlight. One is an annoying bright light. One is a red grid. Not even in the same ballpark.

As far as why she can't focus outdoors with plenty of light, I would say it is either a lack of contrast, equipment error, using too shallow of a DOF, or using a setting like AF-A where the camera picks the focus. Not many other options out there.

I do know the difference since I do own speedlights. She uses af-s now, at least I think so.

The options you listed are exactly what everyone else has been telling her. Shooting with an aperture like 2.8 or 3.5 is fine but if you are too close then it might be a little tricky to land focus. And if her focusing errors are due to DOF or even equipment error then a speedlight isn't going to help her.

This isn't the only forum she is on and the advice from the other forum is almost exactly the same.

[quote name='bthompson' timestamp='1323405703' post='5264877']
She is such a gorgeous girl! You know, I think almost anyone can have potential, honestly. I think the focus seems okay to me. The first and the last one seem a little iffy but with your aperture as high as it was, I would think it would all be relatively in focus. Unfortunately, the truth is that these just look like snapshots. They are very flashy and they don't really have real composition or connection to me. I certainly don't want to come across as cruel. If you have passion for photography then you should definitely keep practicing. Focus on one thing at a time and it will all eventually fall in place. Plus you have a gorgeous subject to practice on

[/quote]

[quote name='tjdec91' timestamp='1323407135' post='5264895']
Do you want to shoot flash? I would say - find a big window or go outdoors and work with her in natural light. Understanding how to coordinate your iso - shutter speeds - and f stops, & focus first as well as finding the light without flash. Flash just adds a harsh snapshot look if not used properly - does that make sense? Unless you want to shoot flash, then that is a whole different ballgame. She is adorable!!!
[/quote]

AMOMENT · Dec 10, 2011

WOW! DOWN GUYS, DOWN! Everyone gets so personally offended. I am not ignoring your advice.......IN FACT, YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT THE SHUTTER. I SHOT AT 1/100 AT THE VERY LEAST...BUT MOSTLY AT 1/200-- -1/400. I posed a few shot WITHOUT my flash and in those circumstances I did slow my shutter to 1/60. I could have raised the ISO but personally, IMO, I couldn't stand the noise. I may not be a professional photographer but if you give me advice on PHOTOS THAT ARE MINE, that I dislike, I am not going to take it. You are all not gods gift to photography just because you are pros. And in case you haven't noticed, you all give opposing advice. It is quite possible that I have ignored one person's and taken another's. The EGOCENTRISM AND NARCISISM ON HERE IS BEYOND! I even just double checked my info on my photos! So, instead of jumping down my throat about not listening, maybe you should re-evaluate your electronic sources for reading my info!

My goal for this shoot was focus. I took these in the evening in my house. I did not use the speedlight flash for all of these! My husband purchased a speedlight for me and I played around with it on a few shots. I shot about 5 shoots last week all of which has about 200 photos in them. I learned what I could about FOCUSING...and then posted 6 photos out of like 1,000 for cc on focus. Grantid, if my lighting improved, that would have been great but my concentration was focus. So you see, I AM TAKING YOUR ADVICE! Perhaps if everyone wasn't so darn full of themeselves they would realize that I AM TRYING MY DAMN HARDEST TO APPLY EVERYTHING YOU ARE SAYING. I am not out to get everyone on here with some vivious global ignoral plot.

If you guys get so heated on an internet forum with a person that you don't know, have no idea what I am like, what I am doing on a daily basis, and how HARD I AM TRYING TO APPLY ALLLLLLL OF YOUR ADVICE, well than perhaps you should go join TAMF! AKA...The Anger Management forum!

I come in peace! I have been told to shoot at faster speeds and I did except for when it was too dark and I did not want to raise my ISO. Again, I have TWO OTHER friends who are pro photographers and by pro, I mean paid to do it and have been for over 5 years! They both told me that raising your ISO is not necessarily a good thing and to try shooting and practicing at 1/60. Photography is clearly an art which also means there is a lot up for debate. What works for some people on here may not work for otehrs. It is also a matter of taste. Don't be personally offended if I take one person's advice over another person's. I do have that right.
I rarely shoot slower than 1/100....and barely ever slower than 1/200. Also...JUST CHECKED AGAIN TO MAKE SURE, but I did not shoot even close to wide open because I know this decreases my DOF too much and makes getting a sharper image a little tougher for now. MOST; 90% of these shots were shot at 5.6. This was the recommended aperture that you advised me to shoot at. I didn't ignore your advice and if you need further confirmation, I will personally send you my data showing my settings! I cannot explain why you are all getting the readings you are.

If you have ever struggled with something than show some damn tolerance! You guys act like vicious animals on here. This is photography not war! Stop atttacking people out there that share the same passion as you; even if they struggle to apply your techniques. You do not live in my home and you do not see me attempt to apply certain advice. I do not feel that I need to report every time I take your advice. I simply chose to post a few photos I liked for cc.

AMOMENT · Dec 10, 2011

KERBOUCHARD; thank you for being so humane!

If anyone on here really knew how hard I worked at this and what it meant in my life for reasons far deeper than any photography could ever explain, you would be astonished. SHAME ON YOU FOR talking and judging anyone the way you have done. I shoot with purpose all the time. The only person who could ever vouge for me would be my husband and my family. They watch as every day I try a knew experiment, as I sit with my books and tutorials, and try things over and over again; applying your advice, but not necessarily reporting back to you with it.

Furthermore, I am a teacher and my profession is psychology. I teach plenty of people wanting to learn my field and I NEVER, no matter what, would speak to them the way you have spoken to me; as if they owed me something.

Bitter Jeweler · Dec 10, 2011

Granted.

AMOMENT · Dec 10, 2011

I AM WILLING TO SHARE MY KNOWLEDGE FREE OF PRIDE! If they need to revisit it a million times it is fine with me. This is very normal to do in the learning process. My students don't have to proove anything to me, just to themselves. You all need to ask yourselves if by being on here if you really want to be helpful or hurtful? It seems as if many of you are looking to make yourselves feel better by putting down others.

AMOMENT · Dec 10, 2011

AS POSTED by TEE " the one constant I'm seeing is your lack of appropriate shutter speed. On a lot of images you post, your shutter speed is way too slow. This is greatly affecting the image quality of your photos. Quite honestly, after all this analyzing, I really think your focus issues are coming down to you not paying attention to your shutter speed, trying to shoot every picture at f/1.8 and tossing every piece of advice given to you out the proverbial window. I mean, comparitively speaking, the members on here are being very helpful to you. I wish you could answer why you refuse to listen? Learning literally starts photographing a box of tissues, sock puppets and candles. Yet, you're convinced shooting squirming kids is the best way to start. I want to root for you. I do. But your inability to listen and take advice is wearing thin. Why are you in such a hurry? Can you at least answer that one question

I did take the advice and shot at 5.6. I normally never shoot lower than 1/200; again taking the advice. However, a friend, a prof. photographer , told me to practice shooting at 1/60 instead of raising the ISO. I took his advice for this specific shoot. I was happy with my focus and that is why I posted these for cc. I actually did not post about 900 other practice photos that were all taken with purpose for practice because I was told AGAIN to not post too much for cc. These were simply a few I thought I did well with.

Vtec44 · Dec 10, 2011

Well, back to taking sharp and well focused pictures.

Kerbouchard · Dec 10, 2011

AMOMENT said:
KERBOUCHARD; thank you for being so humane!

If anyone on here really knew how hard I worked at this and what it meant in my life for reasons far deeper than any photography could ever explain, you would be astonished. SHAME ON YOU FOR talking and judging anyone the way you have done. I shoot with purpose all the time. The only person who could ever vouge for me would be my husband and my family. They watch as every day I try a knew experiment, as I sit with my books and tutorials, and try things over and over again; applying your advice, but not necessarily reporting back to you with it.

Furthermore, I am a teacher and my profession is psychology. I teach plenty of people wanting to learn my field and I NEVER, no matter what, would speak to them the way you have spoken to me; as if they owed me something.

I'm not sure how to take that. Hopefully your second and third paragraph weren't directed at me like your first one was...

AMOMENT · Dec 10, 2011

kerbouchard; you hit the nail!!!!!!!!!!! I can't thank you enough for not joining the "mob.!" There is so many opposing theories and advice and if I were to simply apply it all they would all negate each other! Just so everyone knows, last week I practiced on still life. I worked on metering and focusing. I am not trying to conquer lighting and exposure yet, just focusing. Is it so criminal that I got a speedlight, was excited to test drive it, and strapped it on for a trial during a shoot? This is clearly some sort of federal offence in photography world.