I'm Committing to Shoot Full Manual for the Dew Tour, Tips?

[Neil S.]

I dont really understand the point...

I agree with what most of what Derrel said about this. Ill add this though.

Its cool if you want to use manual in an attempt to increase your skills or something, it’s a good way to learn I guess.

I just don’t see any benefit shooting in manual only. The camera has a light meter and modes for a reason; there is no shame in using them.

You should shoot in whatever mode is best for the given situation in my opinion. The camera is not smarter than you, but it is quicker than you when it comes to metering and setting shutter and aperture on the fly in Av and Ap modes.

Something that I have found useful is to go into manual and dial in my aperture and shutter speed, then set auto Iso. This is cool because it allows me to get exactly the settings I want, but the Iso can scale to ensure proper exposure.

For this to work though, you need to ensure that you are on the side of underexposure and not overexposure.

My camera cannot go any lower than Iso 100, and if it is overexposed at Iso 100 then there’s nothing it can do.

Also I don’t think all DSLRs have auto Iso. I know my 30D didn’t have it, and I am so glad my 7D does. It was one of the best new features for me when upgrading.

On a side note when in Ap, Iso 100, and f/1.2 my 85 1.2L can actually max out the shutter at 1/8000th sec in bright daylight. When it did before though, the images were only barely or not overexposed. Just something interesting that I learned. It is amazing how much light 1.2 lets in.

It goes without saying that you wouldn’t have to worry about camera shake or subject movement in this situation lol.

- Neil

 

[Derrel]

As you may recall, I recently started a thread asking of the manual sports shooters were the shiznit or not. I don't understand the chest thumping either, but I do want to learn how to shoot full manual, even if I choose not to use it all the time.

Since I shoot almost exclusively action sports my main focus is either stopping action or showing it with motion blur, so shutter priority seems like a no-brainer to me if you're going to use semi-manual modes.

Yeah, I remember that thread, somewhat. You know, in good, bright lighting, there is not much of a noise penalty to be payed for jacking the ISO level up to 320 or 400 with most cameras...I dunno...I often work at ISO 500 or 640 in bright daylight because I want a fast shutter speed AND a little bit of a focusing safety zone...

For motion sports like BMX, motocross, various motorsports, panning and shutter priority auto and a judicious setting of the ISO go hand in hand...
every situation is a little bit different, but for me the upshot is the camera can adjust the second parameter faster than I can under conditions where the exact lighting is going to vary from second to second. I usually like to decide on the baseline minimum shutter speed: that might be 1/500 or 1/750, with faster being better quite often. As always, the "right" shutter speed really depends on so many things, like how large the subject is, and the direction of travel: straight ahead, or angling, or directly across the frame of the camera, all demand different degrees of shutter speed to stop, or blur, the motion.

Too much dogma never really helps a discussion; for every instance where manual is touted as being superior, there's an instance where the smarter shooter would opt to let the camera make adjustments. October is the "shadow month" at many North American outdoor stadiums, as the sky boxes now are casting huge, diagonal shadows across the field on kickoffs at 2:00 PM and later, many places.

 

[CNCO]

f16 is too high if you plan on panning. try 4 - 5.6 with a 1/40th shutter

 

[KmH]

A lot of sports shooter use aperture priority so they are sure to get blurred backgrounds for good subject isolation.

They keep a close eye on the shutter speed in the viewfinder, let the ISO float, and adjust the aperture just enough, as necessary, to maintain shutter speed.

Letting the ISO float is also a viable option for shooting in manual mode.

 

[Infidel]

The camera is not smarter than you, but it is quicker than you when it comes to metering and setting shutter and aperture on the fly in Av and Ap modes.

Excellent point!

Something that I have found useful is to go into manual and dial in my aperture and shutter speed, then set auto Iso. This is cool because it allows me to get exactly the settings I want, but the Iso can scale to ensure proper exposure.

It's nice to have those degrees of freedom. Maximally, I only have 4 stops of useable ISO range (ISO 200-1600).

On a side note when in Ap, Iso 100, and f/1.2 my 85 1.2L can actually max out the shutter at 1/8000th sec in bright daylight. When it did before though, the images were only barely or not overexposed. Just something interesting that I learned. It is amazing how much light 1.2 lets in.

That's really quite remarkable! Not a situation I've encountered with my kit lens. Again...degrees of freedom.

 

[Rekd]

I dont really understand the point...

I thought the point was clearly stated in the original post but I went back and read it and, well... it wasn't; I want to commit to learning to shoot full manual. :greenpbl:I don't want to switch to shooting full manual.

Doing it at an actual event will force it to happen, for better or for worse, and motivate me to take it seriously. (I'm thinking with the help I've gotten here so far it will be for the better and will ultimately make me a better photog.)

 

[Rekd]

A lot of sports shooter use aperture priority so they are sure to get blurred backgrounds for good subject isolation.

They keep a close eye on the shutter speed in the viewfinder, let the ISO float, and adjust the aperture just enough, as necessary, to maintain shutter speed.

Letting the ISO float is also a viable option for shooting in manual mode.

Excellent advice. Thanks. I didn't consider the background isolation gained from aperture priority.

 

[Neil S.]

The camera is not smarter than you

This is not true of everyone here from my experience lol...

 

[Robin Usagani]

the only downside about Aperture Priority is that you use the camera meter to decide what shutter speed to use. Therefore if you are shooting the same thing over and over (same background, the subject move around a little) then your shutter speed fluctuates (depending on what metering mode you are using too). Then when you process the photos, the exposure fluctuates. I can live with that though. If I shoot in a studio (not that I have shot in a studio), I would definitely use manual for consistentcy.

 

[Neil S.]

I dont really understand the point...

I thought the point was clearly stated in the original post; I want to commit to learning to shoot full manual. :greenpbl:

Doing it at an actual event will force it to happen, for better or for worse, and motivate me to take it seriously. (I'm thinking with the help I've gotten here so far it will be for the better and will ultimately make me a better photog.)

From that entire post this is the only thing you quote and respond to lol...

What I mean is that shooting full time manual will just be a headache and actually put you at a disadvantage.

Again the camera can dial in the shutter speed in Ap mode way faster than you could even dream of.

As Derrel said, if the subject is moving through changing lighting conditions it will be far better at adapting than you could in manual.

There’s no point in making things more difficult than they need to be.

Again there’s no shame in using your camera to its full potential.

This is the same reason that modern soldiers don’t go to war with old fashioned bolt action rifles. Well unless they are a sniper maybe...

I think where people get the idea that modes are bad, is because some people buy a DSLR and leave it in full auto all the time.

This is completely different, because shutter and aperture priority modes are very powerful in the hands of a skilled shooter.

Again its ideal to use the best mode for a given situation, whatever that is.

 

[Rekd]

I dont really understand the point...

I thought the point was clearly stated in the original post; I want to commit to learning to shoot full manual. :greenpbl:

Doing it at an actual event will force it to happen, for better or for worse, and motivate me to take it seriously. (I'm thinking with the help I've gotten here so far it will be for the better and will ultimately make me a better photog.)

From that entire post this is the only thing you quote and respond to lol...

What I mean is that shooting full time manual will just be a headache and actually put you at a disadvantage.

Again the camera can dial in the shutter speed in Ap mode way faster than you could even dream of.

As Derrel said, if the subject is moving through changing lighting conditions it will be far better at adapting than you could in manual.

There’s no point in making things more difficult than they need to be.

Again there’s no shame in using your camera to its full potential.

This is the same reason that modern soldiers don’t go to war with old fashioned bolt action rifles. Well unless they are a sniper maybe...

I think where people get the idea that modes are bad, is because some people buy a DSLR and leave it in full auto all the time.

This is completely different, because shutter and aperture priority modes are very powerful in the hands of a skilled shooter.

Again its ideal to use the best mode for a given situation, whatever that is.

Boss was coming and had to cut it short, lol. Just kidding.

I edited that post because it a) sounded rude and b) was incomplete.

I want to LEARN to shoot full manual. I don't want to commit to shooting it full time.

I understand the benefits of shooting priority modes and will probably use that most of the time. But there have been times where the camera wanted to do something I didn't want it to do and I was not sure of myself enough to switch over to full manual to over-ride it.

Hopefully after this weekend I will have the confidence to do it should the need arise.

(Also, I owe Keith and Neil a thanks, but for whatever reason the thanks button doesn't always show up. I'll hit you up later when I get home. Sorry, Derrel, you only get one per thread now. :greenpbl: ) :hugs:

 

[Neil S.]

Then when you process the photos, the exposure fluctuates. I can live with that though. If I shoot in a studio (not that I have shot in a studio), I would definitely use manual for consistentcy.

Very good point here Schwetty...

I agree that manual in the studio or with stationary subjects is useful, landscapes, etc.

This is what I mean by the right mode for the right situation.

I just took a bunch of night shots about an hour ago of our airfield and the F-16 hardened shelters here at work. I will be posting a few on the site when I get home probably.

I used manual and Iso 100 for all of them, which was probably 50 or so.

The reason was because it allowed me to get exactly the shots that I wanted, proper exposure, etc.

I would never shoot a moving subject with manual though, unless I was in auto Iso maybe.

The way I like to shoot moving subjects is in Av mode with auto Iso. That way when the aperture hits wide open(max aperture), the Iso can pick up and scale to ensure proper exposure.

This is all while having the exact shutter that want to show or freeze motion. This is just one way to do it at least with my 7D, and there are other ways of approaching this as well.

I think its best to assess the situation, then choose a mode and settings based on all available options.

Going into a situation saying "I am only going to use this mode, etc." will just make it more difficult, and put you at a disadvantage.

OP: again though if you want to just learn, then thats cool. I would expect a lot of crappy shots, and a headache afterwards if I was you though.

I just want you to understand that shooting in manual only does not give you an advantage or anything.

 

[Neil S.]

Boss was coming and had to cut it short, lol. Just kidding.

I edited that post because it a) sounded rude and b) was incomplete.

I want to LEARN to shoot full manual. I don't want to commit to shooting it full time.

I understand the benefits of shooting priority modes and will probably use that most of the time. But there have been times where the camera wanted to do something I didn't want it to do and I was not sure of myself enough to switch over to full manual to over-ride it.

Hopefully after this weekend I will have the confidence to do it should the need arise.

(Also, I owe Keith and Neil a thanks, but for whatever reason the thanks button doesn't always show up. I'll hit you up later when I get home. Sorry, Derrel, you only get one per thread now. :greenpbl: ) :hugs:

OK I think I understand now, I thought you were saying that you thought shooting manual all the time means you are better or something.

Ya forcing yourself to shoot in manual will probably teach you some things...

I have found that forcing myself to shoot at 1.2 has greatly helped my understanding of DOF.

I wouldnt shoot at 1.2 like 99% of the time though, because it makes almost the entire shot out of focus.

This is the same thing you are saying I think.

Forcing yourself out of your comfort zone to mix it up...

 

[Rekd]

OP: again though if you want to just learn, then thats cool. I would expect a lot of crappy shots, and a headache afterwards if I was you though.

I just want you to understand that shooting in manual only does not give you an advantage or anything.

I already get a lot of crappy shots.

Well, actually now I throw away about the same number I used to keep before I got the 70-200mm L IS II. Was shooting with an EF 70-210mm f/4.0 IS push/pull (Who says the equipment doesn't make the photog??)

But yeah, we're on the same side of the fence on this one. I just want to do this to learn and get more comfortable.

 

[gsgary]

To get a quick rough setting i will meter of a piece of grass that is lit similar to the subject