I've been reminded why I ditched Windows

[LokiZ]

His only other expense was whatever he paid for virus protection.

Who pays for that when Avast! is free?

Why use 3rd party?

http://www.microsoft.com/Security_Essentials/

I use Security Essentials on my Windows 7 machine.

I use 3rd party because I can and also because many times 3rd party tends not to be bloatware compared to some of the bigger names.

I vote for companies who don't do sloppy programming, meaning just because machines are now faster and have more memory does not mean the programmers out there should use more resources just because they are there.

 

[inTempus]

They can't work together because of the mindset of the typical Mac user. I'm not accusing anyone here of this but it's true. Within the past 10 years the professional Starbucks websurfers have started a faddish elitist movement in which they truly believe they become a member of the socialite elites just because they became a SJobs lemming.

I got your point, I just don't happen to agree with it.

Your assessment sounds totally out in left field. I travel all over the country due to my job and I interact with countless people regularly. I have never seen anything to the degree you're talking about here. Perhaps in middle schools and high schools around the nation there's kids acting this way, but I don't see it in adults in Starbucks or anywhere else.

It was something about the iPod that ruined that harmony though. For some reason these people honestly believe they are elite because they own an apple product and instantly grow this elitist disgust for anyone that doesn't conform.

Again, I haven't seen it. And for all the vitriol you lay at the feet of Mac users, there's just as much coming from the Windows groupies. Of course I'm talking about internet forums (which I suspect you are too) and not in "real life". People tend to be more aggressive online than they do in real life. I take what I read online with a grain of salt. It certainly isn't representative of "real life" or how people typically interact with each other.

I'm a proponent of windows because it's the best solution for everyday computing. You can do everything on a PC. You can't do everything on mac. You can't do everything on a linux box. There is a reason why 10 years after the i movement mac still hasn't broken 10% market share. However, I'm a much bigger fan of linux than any other OS. Mint is my preferred OS and as I said before if I could play CSS and run my photo software on it then I wouldn't own a Windows machine.

That's a pretty broad statement, one that's not even close to being accurate. Had you said "for me" somewhere in there, then there would be nothing objectionable in your statement.

I can do everything with my Mac that I need to do without any exceptions. As a matter of fact, my Mac gives me more flexibility. Even our .NET developers switched to Mac because of its ease of use and Unix underpinnings.

But I also realize OSX isn't for everyone anymore than Windows is. Something you don't seem to grasp.

As for sales numbers, Mac is growing faster than most Windows system makers. The last couple of years they have shown incredible growth annually.

Healthy Mac sales growth fueled by 74% increase in desktops

Until OSX 10.x and their use of Intel chips, Mac was kind of stagnant. Over the last several years their sales figures have blown all predictions and if the trend continues, they will grab up quite of bit of Windows shrinking market share.

Keep telling yourself Mac's are irrelevant.

 

[keith foster]

InTempus, I admire how you carry on a debate. Respectful, factual, and when you give your opinion you recognize it as an opinion. Thank you.
I use both pc and macs. I like pc because they are cheaper. We have 4 laptops that allow us to surf, email and word process and spent around $3000 for all.
But when I get ready to start editing video I want my Mac. I have been editing freelance for 5 years, started on a pc, tried a Mac 3 years ago at a conference I went to and I bought one the next day. They cost more but it is worth it when you bill by the hour and the client wants the video today. My Mac has never hiccupped with any video, my pc locked up all the time during edits and I had to work around problems all the time.
I think both systems have their place.

 

[usayit]

* It doesn't have to be a Mac versus PC world.
* SJobs lemmings and BGates lemmings can live in harmony.
* A person who decides against following the current norm isn't an elitest.. just someone who made a different choice. Those that say otherwise should be re-examining their own choices.

If I recall, the same "us versus them" / "accused elitest" mentality existed when Windows began to take over the market over the various DOS incarnations.


Windows lemming (he's a friend actually) was giving me a hard time because ME (a Mac user) passed up the iPhone for a Droid. I explained that the Droid better fulfilled my needs for a smartphone and Mac better fulfilled my needs for computing. Not a brand loyalist just a better shopper.

 

[jbylake]

Pls, Almighty, let this be so.....
There is an easy solution and answer to this whole thread.
If you prefer MAC as a solution to your needs, buy a MAC.
If Windows is a solution to your needs, buy a Windows Machine
If *nix is the solution to your needs, then by all means run a linux machine.
How many more times in the same thread can you say the same thing over and over, and still call it debate?
How many more times can a$$holes say I W I L L T Y P E S L O W L Y, and think they are showing superior intelect, instead of stunted, or underdeveloped conversational skills, debate tactics, or just don't know what an arse they really making of themselves.

Buy what you wan't, share your thoughts if you must, then let it die. Please.

J:lmao:

 

[itznfb]

First of all... to the morons attacking me. Re-read my posts. I specifically stated the group of people I was talking about and excluded technical people who choose to use mac's because they actually like them. Anyone who denies the elitist Mac cult doesn't exist is naive or just likes to keep their head 10 ft in the ground.

To anyone denying this hatred didn't exist 10 years ago... you obviously didn't work in graphics, photojournalism or print shops.

They can't work together because of the mindset of the typical Mac user. I'm not accusing anyone here of this but it's true. Within the past 10 years the professional Starbucks websurfers have started a faddish elitist movement in which they truly believe they become a member of the socialite elites just because they became a SJobs lemming.

I got your point, I just don't happen to agree with it.

Your assessment sounds totally out in left field. I travel all over the country due to my job and I interact with countless people regularly. I have never seen anything to the degree you're talking about here. Perhaps in middle schools and high schools around the nation there's kids acting this way, but I don't see it in adults in Starbucks or anywhere else.

Twice this week I had a mac user get up, insult and leave Starbucks because I wouldn't leave. Without me saying a word. Once here in Pittsburgh and once down in Atlanta.

This happens constantly to me and I see it happen to others every day. These people literally treat non apple lemming like a lower class race. If you haven't experienced this then be happy you haven't. This is the first I've heard of someone not experiencing this in some way shape or form.

I've never heard of a non-mac user attack or blatantly insult someone for no reason other than they haven't conformed with a ridiculous cult.

It was something about the iPod that ruined that harmony though. For some reason these people honestly believe they are elite because they own an apple product and instantly grow this elitist disgust for anyone that doesn't conform.

Again, I haven't seen it. And for all the vitriol you lay at the feet of Mac users, there's just as much coming from the Windows groupies. Of course I'm talking about internet forums (which I suspect you are too) and not in "real life". People tend to be more aggressive online than they do in real life. I take what I read online with a grain of salt. It certainly isn't representative of "real life" or how people typically interact with each other.

Again.. I guess I didn't make this clear... I'm not talking about internet forums at all. I'm talking about the blatant disrespect I get from real people I deal with every day. The majority of it is subtle. But there are some that just directly insult people.

Then there are people that use Macs because they like the unix backend and don't care about the social aspect of it. These would be the technical people like I'm guessing the majority of the people on this forum are and the people I work with on my Sys Admin team. They even hate the 'mac' people.

I'm a proponent of windows because it's the best solution for everyday computing. You can do everything on a PC. You can't do everything on mac. You can't do everything on a linux box. There is a reason why 10 years after the i movement mac still hasn't broken 10% market share. However, I'm a much bigger fan of linux than any other OS. Mint is my preferred OS and as I said before if I could play CSS and run my photo software on it then I wouldn't own a Windows machine.

That's a pretty broad statement, one that's not even close to being accurate. Had you said "for me" somewhere in there, then there would be nothing objectionable in your statement.

I can do everything with my Mac that I need to do without any exceptions. As a matter of fact, my Mac gives me more flexibility. Even our .NET developers switched to Mac because of its ease of use and Unix underpinnings.

But I also realize OSX isn't for everyone anymore than Windows is. Something you don't seem to grasp.

As for sales numbers, Mac is growing faster than most Windows system makers. The last couple of years they have shown incredible growth annually.

Healthy Mac sales growth fueled by 74% increase in desktops

Until OSX 10.x and their use of Intel chips, Mac was kind of stagnant. Over the last several years their sales figures have blown all predictions and if the trend continues, they will grab up quite of bit of Windows shrinking market share.

Keep telling yourself Mac's are irrelevant.

How is it not close to accurate? You said yourself you can't play some games you like on your mac. No Sys Admin can do their job on a Mac without running in Windows all day long. The majority of people that game can't use them at all. And None of my printers, scanners, video recording equipment are compatible with mac. Of course I could buy other equipment but I couldn't switch now with out buying all new.

I never said they were irrelevant.

I'll say it again. My only probably with macs is the people that use them as described above.

 

[jbylake]

First of all... to the morons attacking me. Re-read my posts.

Oh well, guess my prayers weren't answered, or the answer was no.....:chatty:

 

[itznfb]

First of all... to the morons attacking me. Re-read my posts.

Oh well, guess my prayers weren't answered, or the answer was no.....:chatty:

Well, I make a statement about a large group of people and exclude the majority of people on this forum from that group..... and they still act like I beat up their mother and personally attack me, what do you expect.

 

[c.cloudwalker]

Well, I make a statement about a large group of people and exclude the majority of people on this forum from that group..... and they still act like I beat up their mother and personally attack me, what do you expect.

:violin:

If you don't like getting whacked, don't try and whack people. Would you like a lollipop?

 

[itznfb]

Well, I make a statement about a large group of people and exclude the majority of people on this forum from that group..... and they still act like I beat up their mother and personally attack me, what do you expect.

:violin:

If you don't like getting whacked, don't try and whack people. Would you like a lollipop?

Are you retarded? That's exactly my point. I didn't say a thing about people here and you attack me as if I did. Maybe you're in that elitist group I speak of? Did I hit a little too close to home maybe? Well, now it's starting to make sense. I'm sorry I offended you by calling out your fake self proclaimed elite status in this world. Does that apology make you feel better?

 

[Garbz]

Ok skipping to the end and missing all the infighting I still need to add my 2 cents.

Windows DVD not booting is not it's fault, it's yours.
Windows reading from the DVD that's in the drive after you boot it from the thumb drive, well that's just normal. I think you should turn in your geek card
You say you can't find windows 7 drivers? Not it's fault either, and why don't you just install the Vista drivers. They have exactly the same driver framework.

In fact the only thing I can agree with you inTempus is that it's frigging retarded that you can't run an upgrade from any Windows Vista to 7, that's retarded. And your unfortunate Outlook experience, but again this is not necessarily fault of windows.

Let me just say I don't like windows much. The OSX experience is incredibly refined, and Vista makes me throw up. But Windows 7 has been nothing but flawless in my experience except for one bug in the first Beta, but that was fixed in the release candidate. I'm sorry to hear that it didn't work out for you.

 

[inTempus]

First of all... to the morons attacking me.

I didn't call you a moron, so calling me one (you said "morons" - plural) is sophomoric and uncalled for. It's ironic you chastise Mac users for the very thing you're guilty of yourself.

Re-read my posts. I specifically stated the group of people I was talking about and excluded technical people who choose to use mac's because they actually like them. Anyone who denies the elitist Mac cult doesn't exist is naive or just likes to keep their head 10 ft in the ground.

...as if an "elitist" Windows cult doesn't exist. You act like only Mac users are capable if such childish behavior. It's that type of partisan non-sense that that destroys your argument.

There are idiots in this world, but you pretend the majority of the Mac users (except those on this forum - how handy) belong to this group. It's complete non-sense.

To anyone denying this hatred didn't exist 10 years ago... you obviously didn't work in graphics, photojournalism or print shops.

You're the one saying it wasn't bad 10 years ago and got worse just recently when the iPod craze took off. Which is it?

Twice this week I had a mac user get up, insult and leave Starbucks because I wouldn't leave. Without me saying a word. Once here in Pittsburgh and once down in Atlanta.

Your story makes absolutely no sense. I can't make heads nor tails of your comment, but it sounds as though you're saying a Mac user was offended by your Windows machine being at Starbucks, insulted you because you "wouldn't leave", then left himself. Not once, but twice... the exact same scenario in two different cities and two difference Starbucks.

Right.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and call BS.

This happens constantly to me and I see it happen to others every day. These people literally treat non apple lemming like a lower class race. If you haven't experienced this then be happy you haven't. This is the first I've heard of someone not experiencing this in some way shape or form.

OMG, this is absolutely ridiculous. Has it ever dawned on you that perhaps you're the problem? It sounds to me like you go around looking for Mac users to get pissed off at. I'm 41, I've worked in a technical field my entire life. I've worked around and with people that used both types of systems and rarely does the OS you run even come up. It certainly has never come up in a coffee shop by complete strangers. That's ludicrous that you claim all this Mac hatred happens in "Starbucks" around the nation.

I've never heard of a non-mac user attack or blatantly insult someone for no reason other than they haven't conformed with a ridiculous cult.

Of course not, Mac users are insane lunatics - obviously. All Windows users are perfectly sane. This lunacy on the part of Mac users is well documented, there are articles about it... made for television movies about it... books about it. There are even self defense courses springing up nationwide for PC users.

Again.. I guess I didn't make this clear... I'm not talking about internet forums at all. I'm talking about the blatant disrespect I get from real people I deal with every day. The majority of it is subtle. But there are some that just directly insult people.

Oh yes, I'm sure. You're the first person I've ever make this ridiculous claim. Assuming you're not making all this up, I suspect there's something you're doing that's drawing the ire of the Mac users you run into at Starbucks.

How is it not close to accurate? You said yourself you can't play some games you like on your mac.

I didn't say I can't play games on my Mac, I said I was thinking of a Windows machine for gaming. I don't need a Windows machine for gaming. I just like computers so I wanted something with Windows (which I have as once again I'm tying this on Windows 7).

You made a statement of fact that Macs can not do everything people need them to do. That's 100% inaccurate as there are millions of Mac users who do everything they need with their Macs.

No Sys Admin can do their job on a Mac without running in Windows all day long. The majority of people that game can't use them at all.

Not true. I know plenty of people that game on Macs. I gamed on my 24" 2.8ghz iMac (Battlefield 2) regularly.

And None of my printers, scanners, video recording equipment are compatible with mac. Of course I could buy other equipment but I couldn't switch now with out buying all new.

What printers and scanners are you using (model numbers)? I've yet to see a current printer or scanner that wasn't supported by both systems.

I never said they were irrelevant.

Really, who typed this then?

I'm a proponent of windows because it's the best solution for everyday computing. You can do everything on a PC. You can't do everything on mac.

I'll say it again. My only probably with macs is the people that use them as described above.

Which I believe is mostly imagined.

 

[inTempus]

Windows DVD not booting is not it's fault, it's yours.

Really, how do you figure? It might be the fault of the hardware, but I didn't do anything to prevent it from working. It loaded XP and Visa from the same drive just fine. Now that Windows 7 is installed, it also works just fine.

 

[inTempus]

Are you retarded?

That's an attack.

I didn't say a thing about people here and you attack me as if I did.

You called several of us "morons". Note the "s" at the end. You didn't just respond to Plato, who called you a moron first, but you took it a step further and called others "morons" too. I know I didn't call you any names, so why did you attack me personally? I have to assume I'm in the group of "morons" as it's mostly you and I taking part in this exchange.

 

[cfusionpm]

In fact the only thing I can agree with you inTempus is that it's frigging retarded that you can't run an upgrade from any Windows Vista to 7, that's retarded.

But you can. And in fact, I did the impossible, apparently. I upgraded from Vista 32 bit to 7 64 bit without having to format the drive. I was under the impression that only a wipe and clean install would let me put 7 on my machine, but all my files were kept in the Windows.old folder. However this was installing from disc. If you try to upgrade using the digitalriver direct download, it will only work if upgrading from 32 bit Vista to 32 bit 7 or 64 bit Vista to 64 bit 7. And that was an issue which prolonged my ability to upgrade; going from 32 -> 64. I downloaded mine on the launch, but couldnt install it till my disc arrived in the mail about a week and a half later. There were workarounds like making a bootable disc from an ISO of the file, but I preferred to wait for my legitemate disc (which was 40$ shipped with my student/alum discount).

All in all Windows 7 absolutely flys on my computer. I finally have my full 4gb of ram (as opposed to the 3gb limit), things run smoother, and every app seems snappier and quicker. It sucks to have issues with things, but other than my weird installing problem, Windows 7 has been smooth sailing for me.

I would also like to take this opportunity to distance myself from the radical Mac haters out there. I have my reasons for disliking them, and most of them are cost-related or business decisions on Apple's part. The elitism douchebaggary, while fun to poke at, probably doesnt represent Mac users as a whole. I think the only thing I truely hate about Apple was something brought up a few pages back; about how their entire ad campaign is based on trash talking Windows PCs. And if one has to sink to that kind of level to sell a product, then I can only consider them bullying asshats who don't have enough confidence in their computers to be able to sell them on their own merit. When was the last time you saw an iPod ad saying how horrible other media players are? And how many do you see of people enjoying a product and its features?