JPEG vs RAW - Beginner

[Tinderbox (UK)]

Have you guys watched these video`s be warned the the first is the last, and the last i the first.

RAW vs JPEG vs Ken Rockwell ?Interview? | Fro Knows Photo

John.

 

[apaflo]

apaflo.... I'm not sure what your basis of knowledge is or where this position is coming from. Let me tell you where I am coming from.

I have been a photographer for about 10 years.

You have wonderful experience. I've been a photographer for over 50 years. But this thread is not about my experience or yours, it is about the question the OP asked. Answers for other questions simply muddy the water and make it hard to see. So do gratuitous personal comments.

Regardless, if this thread degerates to nothing but personal insults because people are unable to argue the logic of it, I will not be part of it. I'm not inclined to continue participation in forums where that is encouraged.

 

[480sparky]

Most cameras, specifically including Canon and Nikon, embed a full sized JPEG that is identical to the JPEG file. There may well be some models that don't, in which case a RAW+JPEG mode will exist

I think that is news to everyone else. Apparently, you're the only one with this knowledge. Perhaps you could expound on this and provide us with your source for this astounding information.

This thread is not about learning how to shoot a fast paced event such as basketball. That is a topic for an advanced forum, not for beginners asking about how to get away from auto modes and how to learn editing.

What?........You expect noobs to shoot nothing but landscapes and architecture? Isn't something like their kid's basketball game something a newbie would like to shoot? That's not a valid reason they bought a camera.... to record their childrens' lives?


Oh, wait. Let's not let real-life situations muddy the waters here.

 

[apaflo]

Lots of amateurs shoot pictures of their kids playing basketball.

Lots of amateur photographers have very advanced skills. Shooting basketball effectively is a very advanced subject. It isn't just the size of the camera's buffer, it's low light vs. stop action shutter speeds, it's old lights that never have the same white balance twice, it's camera angles, it's focal lengths, it's tripods/monopods/handheld issues, it's not a beginners subject and is not what the OP asked about.

 

[480sparky]

Lots of amateurs shoot pictures of their kids playing basketball.

Lots of amateur photographers have very advanced skills. Shooting basketball effectively is a very advanced subject. It isn't just the size of the camera's buffer, it's low light vs. stop action shutter speeds, it's old lights that never have the same white balance twice, it's camera angles, it's focal lengths, it's tripods/monopods/handheld issues, it's not a beginners subject and is not what the OP asked about.

So, now we're assuming the OP is not only an amateur, but by default an amateur with NO advanced skills. With no basis for this, you've automatically misclassified the OP as one who is not capable of performing a simple task like shooting a basketball game.

 

[apaflo]

Most cameras, specifically including Canon and Nikon, embed a full sized JPEG that is identical to the JPEG file. There may well be some models that don't, in which case a RAW+JPEG mode will exist

I think that is news to everyone else. Apparently, you're the only one with this knowledge. Perhaps you could expound on this and provide us with your source for this astounding information.

Everyone who has enough background to provide the OP with valid information about the distinction between RAW and JPEG files is aware the Nikon DSLR's that you own embed a full sized JPEG in every RAW file.

In fact Nikon embeds three JPEG images into every NEF file. There is a full sized JPEG and a smaller one in the Exif data. The thumbnail that you mentioned is actually in the MakerNotes.

In fact there is one more JPEG image, embedded as a "comment" in one of the others. I don't recall, but it is probably embedded in the preview image, and is a very small preview image used when multiple images are show in a list on the camera's LCD screen.

You can use any good tool that extracts Exif data to find them. I'd recommend Phil Harvey's exiftool, which is free.

Here is the way to extract them:

>exiftool -previewimage -b dsc_xxxx.nef > previewimage.jpg

Change "previewimage" to "jpgfromraw" for the full sized JPEG, to "otherimage" for the small JPEG version. Using "previewimage" produces a 570x375 pixel thumbnail.

 

[480sparky]

Everyone who has enough background to provide the OP with valid information about the distinction between RAW and JPEG files is aware the Nikon DSLR's that you own embed a full sized JPEG in every RAW file.

In fact Nikon embeds three JPEG images into every NEF file. There is a full sized JPEG and a smaller one in the Exif data. The thumbnail that you mentioned is actually in the MakerNotes.

In fact there is one more JPEG image, embedded as a "comment" in one of the others. I don't recall, but it is probably embedded in the preview image, and is a very small preview image used when multiple images are show in a list on the camera's LCD screen.

You can use any good tool that extracts Exif data to find them. I'd recommend Phil Harvey's exiftool, which is free.

Here is the way to extract them:

>exiftool -previewimage -b dsc_xxxx.nef > previewimage.jpg

Change "previewimage" to "jpgfromraw" for the full sized JPEG, to "otherimage" for the small JPEG version. Using "previewimage" produces a 570x375 pixel thumbnail.

Easier way: Use Nikon's VIEW NX2 software that comes with the camera, or can be downloaded free from their site.

Anyone with ANY amount of experience will know this, not just those thumping their chests about how worldy-experienced they are.


Now, back to the task at hand: What do you expect the OP to do? Only shoot certain things because others are too complicated to shoot in raw? Wait until their editing capabilities get up to speed with raw files before they can go forth and use the camera for the tasks they intended?

 

[apaflo]

Anyone with ANY amount of experience will know this,

I agree, and note that you didn't know it.

 

[480sparky]

Anyone with ANY amount of experience will know this,

I agree, and note that you didn't know it.

Are you done thumping your chest? Why are you now degrading this thread into a apoflo knows all and everyone else is a dolt session?

Um, if i didn't know it, how come I posted it?

 

[imagemaker46]

It's great when the tech geeks start to drag out all this crap about what is and isn't right. I just take pictures and don't really spend any time thinking about how I achieve what I achieve, but rather concentrate on the content of the image. Digital to me is simply "new" film, I didn't spend hours trying to convince people that shooting Fuji was better than Kodak, they both had great film for different uses.

Get over it kids, most of the amateurs and a great deal of professionals don't give a ****.

 

[robbins.photo]

Then you should not be hostile. Instead, stick to points that apply to what the OP asked about! Arguing points that are not controversial doesn't help either.

Odd, didn't think I had been hostile. Could you perhaps give me an example?

Some people in this thread have repeatedly told a beginner not to shoot RAW. That is the point of contention. It is a flawed concept primarily because those who suggest it are unaware of the signficance of choosing one or the other as it pertains to what the OP asked about. (We don't care if there are differences for a professional photographer, or amateur photographers, or for someone who doesn't want to edit images, or for you or for me!)

Well I haven't seen anyone tell them not to shoot RAW ever - admittedly I may have missed it but if someone did I missed it. I saw a few people take exception to the fact that someone told them not to shoot anything but RAW.

Wonderful, but that is for a different thread. This thread is advice for a beginner. The question was "I'm going to try to "self teach" myself how to really use my DSLR and get myself off of Auto mode. I'm also planning on learning how to really edit and not just use iphoto on my Mac. With that being said, is it better for me to stick with JPEG or make the switch now over to RAW before I start learning?" Clearly the OP necessarily must shoot RAW in order to learn how to edit RAW files. JPEG files are never appropriate for editing, it is not an intermediate format, it is a display format... the final product.

I must have also missed the part where you were named the official thread monitor for what does and does not belong as part of the discussion - lol. The point is that different shooting situations often call for different solutions, something that was very on point for this thread.

This thread is not about what amateur photographers might do. It is about what one photographer who is a beginner and wants to learn about "how to really edit" images. That is an endevour which excludes shooting in JPEG mode literally by definition.

Really starting to wonder if were even reading the same thread to be honest with you.

Perhaps the people the OP should ignore are those who won't read his original question and instead provide answers to unrelated questions. The OP wants to learn to "really edit". He also wants to avoid auto modes. He didn't ask about when RAW is better and when JPEG is better. You say "JPG has it's [sic] advantages", but there are no advantages to shooting JPEG when the purpose is to learn how to "really edit" images.

Ok, well not to be hostile, but I'm sorry to say that statement is total hogwash. RAW does give you more image editing capabilities, but JPG's can still be edited as well. And the reason this thread has degenerated from the original question is precisely because of such horrific misinformation being disseminated. Being able to edit a JPG is just as necessary a skill as being able to edit a RAW file for a well rounded photographer. Both have their place.

 

[Majeed Badizadegan]

To put it simply:
I would shoot JPEG if I wanted my photos to irreversibly suck.
I shoot RAW because I WANT the extra room if I make a mistake.

 

[480sparky]

I shoot raw when I durned well want to. I shoot JPEGs when I durned well want to.

I have a choice because I purchase cameras that allow me to have that choice. And I base my choice on the ultimate use of the images I'm taking.

 

[terri]

This thread has outlived its usefulness - the OP got what he considered a satisfactory answer on page 1 - and he hasn't been back. The thread has only heated up needlessly since page 1. Closed.