Just Got a Quote From B&H - Equipment Change Suggestions?

[bigtwinky]

When I eat in a restaurant I don't care what brand stove they use as long as the food's good.

I also don't allow the waitress to dictate what I will be eating. If I want a club sandwhich, but they already have 6 orders of that, I ain't going to eat the smoked meat, ya know?


You will probably end up getting alot of that gear. Impact lighting stuff is low end, but decent quality. Good for beginners. But you dont need all that now, not when you go through the learning process.

The T2i is a great camera. Just as the 60D and 7D or the D90 and D7000. If you want something that is GREAT, then its out of your budget (D700 or 5D2). The thing is, you will probably end up getting the GREAT body down the road. So don't beat yourself over which one to get now. If you don't know any better, they will all seem the same. What IS important is ergonomics and feel, which you can never get on the phone. You need to be comfortable with the layout of the buttons and grip. Granted the T2i has a different button layout than then 7D, but the general way the camera works is the same.

As for lenses, I would not get the 17-85. Bad recommendation. Its not a horrible lens, but if you are aiming for portraits, I'd look at a 50mm 1.4 or 1.8 to start. I would stay away from the EF-S lenses, as these only work on crop body cameras. If the salesman was being thorough, they would ask if you plan on upgrading to full frame cameras (which it seems like you do) in which case the 17-85 will NOT work. Bad recommendation. Look for EF lenses in the Canon lineup, not EF-S, if you want to later use better bodies.

For the lighting needs, getting a flash is a must. The 430EX II does not have any ports in it. If you are using the Canon infrared to trigger these (which works good), you are limited to line of sight. If you want to use radio triggers (which is IMO the best way to get the flash off camera) you need a universal translator for the flash. If you really want to learn portrait lighting, you should work in full manual. TTL is great, but learn from the ground up.

I have the 430EX II, its a good little flash for running and gunning, but nothing more than a slave flash when used with infrared. You either need to look at the 580EX II (more expensive) or look into third party flashes such as the Vivitar 285HV or the Lumopro LP160. Both under $200. Don't work in automatic with your camera, but great for manual off camera lighting. Or get a used Nikon flash... if you are doing off camera, you can mix brands. Might have colour balance issues though.

All that is just the same as for Nikon.

I did the mistake of first buying cheap lenses, which I had to sell to upgrade. Should of saved to get better lenses off the bat.

 

[Derrel]

Kilerb,
You live in Los Angeles. I would suggest going down to Samy's Camera and buying your outfit hands-on.

 

[traylorc]

Now THAT is sales help!

Depending on circumstances it sure is!

If someone says he or she has an immediate need and we know one brand is currently better about stocking retailers' warehouses IMO it's legitimate to tell the customer this is a consideration, particularly when the choices have boiled down to Nikon and Canon, for which the "which is better" debate is never ending and ultimately unanswerable.

The question, "Can I readily get accessories?" is as legit as the question (For example), "Which has better auto-focus or more accurate metering with on-camera flash?" Both deserve replies and it's the informed sales associate working without consideration for commissions or "spiffs" who's most likely to provide accurate and reliable information.

Dont ever listen to a sales person. I bet he wanted to sell you a bunch of filters too?

Don't ever? You must have been abused badly in some store or other once. Fact is we hire pros with experience so they can draw on that experience when offering suggestions or advice and we expend considerable resources on continual product training to ensure that advice is current and informed. I certainly think a sales person's advice deserves scrutiny, but this wholesale condemnation is simply undeserved and IMO worse, it's bad advice for the OP. YMMV of course.

BTW, I've been a Nikon shooter since the mid-1970s and have no trouble at all with the Canon suggestions posted by the OP. I appreciate brand loyalty but I think we can either debate Coke vs Pepsi until the end of time or we can pick up our cameras and take some pictures.

When I eat in a restaurant I don't care what brand stove they use as long as the food's good.

I would agree that a wholesale condemnation of all salespeople is not warranted, the bottom line is that as salespeople you are financially motivated to sell the customer as much product as possible.

I was in the same position as the OP a couple of months ago. I wanted to purchase a good camera....a camera I could grow into over the foreseeable future. I had done my research on the d90 but wanted to look at the Cannon Rebel as well. I knew I may also need some accessories, but to be honest I was not clear on what I really needed.

The salesperson admitted they personally shoot Canon, but that when it comes to cameras Canon is 1.A and Nikon 1.B. He told me regardless of which brand I picked I was going to have a good camera. He didn't give any of that BS about Nikon being "way backordered". Funny...every camera place I visited prior to making my purchase never mentioned anything about Nikon products being "way backordered". But B&H, one of the largest camera retailers in the country, is having difficulties securing Nikon products. Maybe B&H is legitimately having issues securing Nikon products, but when the salesperson discloses this to the customer the perception is they are trying to push Canon product that is sitting in his inventory.

At the end of the day I decided to go with the d90, so I asked the salesperson what other lenses or other accessories I needed. The salesperson simply recommended going with the d90 and the lens kit. He encouraged me to go out and take a few pics, get use to the camera, and then come back and we can talk about additional lenses and accessories. He also indicated that I may want to consider purchasing some used lens in the future to save some cash.

The salesperson in my example understood the importance of earning my trust, which would lead to additional business down in the future. The B&H salesperson that the OP encountered essentially tried to jack him/her for a $2,000 sale. That is why you are seeing forum members express some "concern" regarding the OP simply whipping out their credit card in order to help the B&H salesperson meet their monthly quota.

 

[kilerb]

Kilerb,
You live in Los Angeles. I would suggest going down to Samy's Camera and buying your outfit hands-on.

I was just looking at this... Samy's Camera | Digital, Cameras, Video, Camcorders, Photography, Electronics for Professionals and Consumers

I'm reading about the lenses and the recommendations for lenses on this thread. I so don't get it. I understand if this is something so basic that I should research it rather than ask here. So if there's a really easy link that could be provided, just paste it. I'm not even sure what to search for on google to find that answer. The sales guy said you want to go with an 85 because anything bigger or smaller would make the subject thinner or wider. I'm pretty sure that's what he said, if that makes sense. I figured there would be a gold standard for doing a certain type of photography. Like if I said "Portraits" everyone would say "18-55!" or "55-200" but there's a bunch of different suggestions. The reason I liked the B&H guy's suggestion was because he claimed the lens he picked would work great for indoors and outdoors and I wouldn't need any other lenses. That's what I want. I'm leaning towards the D90 per a pretty unanimous liking of the body and usage down the line. What would be a great lens to go with it that will produce very high quality portraits indoors and out?

 

[bigtwinky]

Not sure if its just me, but with the availability of information online (and on forums with people who are nice enough to share), I tend to simply use a store to buy something. I dont ask salespeople for their advice as most of the time, while they are experts, they are not 100% accurate.

I prefer to be an informed consumer and know what I am getting into.

 

[Derrel]

This entire thread is pretty sad. We've got one of America's largest photographic retailers with a big name in here trying to defend a salesman using the "Nikon's going to be way back ordered" excuse to sell what he has on-hand, right now, today. By attempting to paint this as a Canon versus Nikon issue. Simply pathetic. This is an issue of a sales associate trying to sell WHAT HE HAS ON HAND NOW. Not what the customer wanted, but what is available right now, in inventory.

Henry Posner's comment that, "BTW, I've been a Nikon shooter since the mid-1970s and have no trouble at all with the Canon suggestions posted by the OP. I appreciate brand loyalty but I think we can either debate Coke vs Pepsi until the end of time or we can pick up our cameras and take some pictures." is in my opinion, simply PATHETIC.

Despicable, really. Disingenuous. I used to sell photo and video goods at retail. I know how this business works. I fully understand what sales people are like, and how they must function on a daily basis, as well as on an "occasional" basis. Taking a customer who comes in with a stated desire for a specific product and then shifting that customer to something entirely different...hmmmm.....wonder why that might happen....

 

[GeorgieGirl]

This guy has his heart set on the Nikon D90. Hopefully Samy's has it in stock or perhaps Adorama has it or Calumet if B&H does not. He has that much decided without much of our help.

What is a good lens for him to pair with the D90 for his portrait use and hopefully for other use too? That's the question now. Since most here are not a salesperson and are no way incentivized, it is a perfectly simple question that you can answer without any sticky agenda. You have experience and you know what the guy is looking for, he has made it clear. Nobody likes the kit lens here, so what exactly should he go for and why. Give the guy two options to chose from and I bet he loves you and his new set up forever.

 

[traylorc]

This entire thread is pretty sad. We've got one of America's largest photographic retailers with a big name in here trying to defend a salesman using the "Nikon's going to be way back ordered" excuse to sell what he has on-hand, right now, today. By attempting to paint this as a Canon versus Nikon issue. Simply pathetic. This is an issue of a sales associate trying to sell WHAT HE HAS ON HAND NOW. Not what the customer wanted, but what is available right now, in inventory.

Henry Posner's comment that, "BTW, I've been a Nikon shooter since the mid-1970s and have no trouble at all with the Canon suggestions posted by the OP. I appreciate brand loyalty but I think we can either debate Coke vs Pepsi until the end of time or we can pick up our cameras and take some pictures." is in my opinion, simply PATHETIC.

Despicable, really. Disingenuous. I used to sell photo and video goods at retail. I know how this business works. I fully understand what sales people are like, and how they must function on a daily basis, as well as on an "occasional" basis. Taking a customer who comes in with a stated desire for a specific product and then shifting that customer to something entirely different...hmmmm.....wonder why that might happen....

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

 

[kilerb]

This guy has his heart set on the Nikon D90. Hopefully Samy's has it in stock or perhaps Adorama has it or Calumet if B&H does not. He has that much decided without much of our help.

What is a good lens for him to pair with the D90 for his portrait use and hopefully for other use too? That's the question now. Since most here are not a salesperson and are no way incentivized, it is a perfectly simple question that you can answer without any sticky agenda. You have experience and you know what the guy is looking for, he has made it clear. Nobody likes the kit lens here, so what exactly should he go for and why. Give the guy two options to chose from and I bet he loves you and his new set up forever.

This would be great if anyone has any suggestions... I would love the best lens for the money for what I'm doing that would go with the D90. Wasn't trying to bash an employee or start a Nikon/Canon war!!! Hahahah

 

[bigtwinky]

If the OP is buying a flash and is doing head shots, why does he need a cool lite kit? Why not just a stand, bracket and umbrella and mount his already shopping carted flash using some Cactus triggers? Nice to go on location with, as alot of newcomers shoot outdoors

And why an Extreme card? I use Ultra cards and they work amazing. Why the extra expense for someone looking to start out?

This on top of the poor 17-85 recommendation.

What lens for the D90 for portraits? One would be the 50 1.8 a good cheap start. Other high end lenses to consider are 70-200 2.8, 24-70. A lens is truly an investment. I know people who have had pro line lenses for 7 years, used them with entry level cameras and now pro cameras. They are your most solid investment. They will cost $1400 + , but they are worth it.

For Canon, on the cheap side, look at a Tamron 28-75 f/2.8. I bought it a few years ago at $500 instead of the equivalent Canon 24-70 f/2.8 which was $1500. Not as fast autofocus in the dark, a bit noisy, but way lighter and great image quality. I had to bring my first copy back though as this is the usual prob with third party lenses...quality control

 

[henryp]

This entire thread is pretty sad. We've got one of America's largest photographic retailers with a big name in here trying to defend a salesman using the "Nikon's going to be way back ordered" excuse to sell what he has on-hand, right now, today. By attempting to paint this as a Canon versus Nikon issue. Simply pathetic. This is an issue of a sales associate trying to sell WHAT HE HAS ON HAND NOW. Not what the customer wanted, but what is available right now, in inventory.

It must be refreshing to be so smugly certain and so entirely wrong all in one short paragraph.

If B&H is "one of America's largest photographic retailers with a big name..." we don't need to stoop to shenanigans such as these. And, the reason we're "one of America's largest photographic retailers with a big name..." is we never have and never will. We don't and we won't.

Despicable, really. Disingenuous. I used to sell photo and video goods at retail. I know how this business works.

Apparently things worked differently where you worked than they do at B&H where our 35+ year history of unimpeachable ethical integrity is far more important than this. If a customer says my need is urgent, we'd be disingenuous to suggest Brand A if we know Brand A is currently in short supply and they're backordered on a host of essential items.

 

[kilerb]

If the OP is buying a flash and is doing head shots, why does he need a cool lite kit? Why not just a stand, bracket and umbrella and mount his already shopping carted flash using some Cactus triggers? Nice to go on location with, as alot of newcomers shoot outdoors

And why an Extreme card? I use Ultra cards and they work amazing. Why the extra expense for someone looking to start out?

This on top of the poor 17-85 recommendation.

What lens for the D90 for portraits? One would be the 50 1.8 a good cheap start. Other high end lenses to consider are 70-200 2.8, 24-70. A lens is truly an investment. I know people who have had pro line lenses for 7 years, used them with entry level cameras and now pro cameras. They are your most solid investment. They will cost $1400 + , but they are worth it.
l

Thanks for your suggestions! Is there something you would suggest between the cheap one and the $1400 one? Appreciate your feedback!

 

[sleist]

In defense of B&H, Nikon's stock has been very spotty. I've been watching 4 different lenses over the past couple months and if I was a pro needing pro glass now, I might regret my choice of Nikon. As I understand it, this has always been the case off and on with Nikon. Maybe they're playing games in anticipation of the dollar falling against the yen and holding back inventory. [shrug]

 

[kundalini]

henryp, your sharp tongue (via the keyboard) is quite distasteful as a customer relations representative. That's another reason why I have moved over to Adorama for my on-line purchases.

HelenOster's (at Adorama) responses to customer issues here on TPF have been nothing but concerned interest to reconcile the particular query of a member. No justification involved, nor is a terse comment applied or implied.

 

[Derrel]

Henry Posner,
I think you misunderstood my comments: the "big name" is you, Henry Posner. I was referring to you, you of the 120-135 photography forum memberships.

Also, Mr. Posner, where does the OP suggest that he is in a hurry for his equipment? Could you please refer us to the post where the OP states that he is in immediate need or in a hurry for his equipment? Or is that just some type of disingenuous, argumentative tactic?

The OP DOES however, state that he really would like a Nikon D90 (in post #34),but, I do not see where the OP stated that he was in a hurry to buy; I DO HOWEVER, read that the sales guy there at B&H Photo was "adamant" in his suggestions that the OP buy a Canon outfit.

Here is what the original poster wroteost Title: "Just Got a Quote From B&H - Equipment Change Suggestions?

Was talking to the sales guy. He seemed very nice and knowledgeable. One thing I noticed immediately is that he steered me away from Nikon and to Canon, citing that if I need accessories, Nikon will be WAY BACK ORDERED.... And he adamantly suggested Canon because of this. He suggested the Rebel T2I as you can see in the quote below.

So, this is what he suggested for indoor and outdoor portraits or head shots, which is all I'll be using this for at the start. I'd appreciate any suggestions on substituting any of this for something that might be more or less money. Value is what I'm looking for here. I just want to have a high quality setup for indoor and outdoor portrait shots. Thanks a lot! Here's the quote....
>>List of items deleted for brevity>


Payment Type - Amount Sub-Total: 1,954.01

Anyway, the OP replies in post #18, #23, #34 where he states, "I'm leaning towards the D90 per a pretty unanimous liking of the body and usage down the line." He also replies in posts #39, #42.

Now,Henry, in NONE of his posts, does the OP suggest that time is of the essence.

I submit Mr. Posner, that it was you being disingenuous when you wrote, "If a customer says my need is urgent, we'd be disingenuous to suggest Brand A if we know Brand A is currently in short supply and they're backordered on a host of essential items."

Well, speaking of being disingenuous, Henry Posner, I deplore the way you have tried to imply or suggest that the customer is in urgent need of being sold $1,941 worth of photographic goods. The potential customer has stated that: "I'm leaning towards the D90 per a pretty unanimous liking of the body and usage down the line." Hmmmm....he likes the Nikon body in what he describes as a "pretty unanimous liking" and suggests he is considering "usage down the line".

So, is Nikon backordered on a "host of essential items" at B&H? What, exactly, are you talking about Mr. Posner??? Can your company NOT supply this man with a Nikon D90 and a zoom lens an a flash?

What kind of a strawman argument are you trying to construct here? Parsing your statement we get an "if a customer says"...."my need is urgent" and then "they're backordered on a host of essential items"....what I see is a huge, empty strawman. Future tense, customer need NOT IN EVIDENCE, and POSTULATED, widespread lack of stock on a "host of essential items".

Where is this type of HYPOTHETICAL, future massive out of stock argument coming from? Does B&H have a Nikon D90, a $450 zoom lens, and a lower-tier Nikon flash in stock now, or not?