....JUST SO MUCH INTELLECTUAL MASTURBATION?

[JerryVenz]

Why is it that photography forums--amateur and professional--seem to attract those that like to TALK about photography far more than actually DOING it?

It's very similar to the warning sign I often see when I meet someone who claims to be a professional photographer and ALL they talk about is their EQUIPMENT--they show me NO IMAGES! And, many times, they have NO WEBSITE to show me!

These thoughts just popped-up after reading some of the posts to the "What can one read from a photograph" thread where some of the responces reminded me of the intellectual masturbation spouted by Susan Sontag....

Anyway, just thought I'd stir the hornets nest before leaving to check-out one of my photo-locations.

 

[oldhippy]

Intellectual stimuli make me Horney, but not without pictures. Lol. Ed

 

[MSnowy]

Everyone here in Mass loves to talk and debate about everything thing. So I guess you could call me a Massdabator

 

[bribrius]

much easier talking about it than getting up and going to do it. Also talking about it you can multitask other responsibilities. Also not running around taking photos means you wont take fifty thousand crap images just for the sake of hitting the shutter release. sometimes you are better off being more selective than running around snapping photos. course, on the other hand you run around snapping the shutter enough you will end up with a few accidental keepers and phenomenal photos if you do it enough, like the monkeys playing the piano thing...

more you hit the shutter better the odds you might actually accidently create a masterpiece.

 

[bribrius]

damn it. now you have me feeling guilty. sitting here, typing. i should at least clean a lens or something.....
suppose i could find something to take a photo of if i go look. it just sounds like so much work...

 

[AlanKlein]

I do post my pictures on Flickr but I have to agree with you that I should spend more time shooting than blabbing. I also agree that people who post and have opinions about how to shoot better, should post their own so we can check to see if they're just big mouths. Even if they have something of value to say, you want to see their pictures to judge if you wish to follow their methods. Their taste may differ from yours. You don't want to start changing your processes for example and waste time only to get results you're not interested in. So seeing results first is important like those little spoons of ice cream to taste different flavors before you decide on the scoop to buy.

 

[PixelRabbit]

I actually think about this sometimes, I read most all of the threads here but rarely respond or share my own thoughts for various reasons, the biggest is I'm still working on my own opinion and learning so much that I prefer to keep my mouth shut lest I look stupid lol I'd MUCH prefer to hide behind an image I post and discuss things through it.

Bri, there is a place between not shooting and shooting obsessively that is a very powerful spot to learn. I was guilty of obsessive shooting at the start when I was learning, I can't tell you how many bird and squirrel shots I have from learning how to show them off and learn enough about them to try to predict a behaviour before it happens. I have a ton of panned shots from the car that are the "in betweens" they aren't great but not bad enough for me to toss, when I first started shooting them I was a fiend, I shot just about everything from every angle near and far, in some opinions perhaps I've clicked the button way too many times but I stand by how I taught myself, through repetition in different light, speed, panning motion etc... and I have only scratched the surface imho. Now I take significantly fewer shots with more intention because I know what to expect and what position to shoot my subject from (ahead, beside, behind as the car passes). Had I not shot and shot and shot I wouldn't have learned as much as I have to have the control over the conditions that I have now. Always remember, there is more than one way to skin a cat and sometimes that's clicking that shutter button over and over and over again.

 

[pgriz]

So Jerry, what's your problem with masturbation, intellectual or otherwise?

Slightly more seriously, though, the discussion in that thread was partly about intent of the photographer, and the perception of the image by a viewer. Some images "work". Others don't. It's worth discussing what is behind that difference.

 

[limr]

Why is it that photography forums--amateur and professional--seem to attract those that like to TALK about photography far more than actually DOING it?

It's very similar to the warning sign I often see when I meet someone who claims to be a professional photographer and ALL they talk about is their EQUIPMENT--they show me NO IMAGES! And, many times, they have NO WEBSITE to show me!

These thoughts just popped-up after reading some of the posts to the "What can one read from a photograph" thread where some of the responces reminded me of the intellectual masturbation spouted by Susan Sontag....

Anyway, just thought I'd stir the hornets nest before leaving to check-out one of my photo-locations.

Does anyone else appreciate the irony of this post/thread?

I find there's a healthy balance for the most part between people who post photos and also participate in these discussions. What's wrong with wanting to put an activity into context, or understanding it better, or fleshing out some uncertainties or doubts people have about the hows and whys of the activity? Sure, there are some who participate in discussions more than they post pictures, but not posting pictures on TPF does NOT mean they aren't taking any. What about the folks who post a ton of pictures but don't get involved in discussions here? Does that mean they don't ever think about these issues? Or talk about them elsewhere? Or still read but not post in the discussions?

There is value in discussion AND in practice.

 

[photoguy99]

You can't take pictures with a forum. But you can talk about them.

Sontag was a pretty smart cookie.

Some people need to think things through, some people are more comfortable working more instinctively. Get over it and embrace the differences. And stop being an anti-intellectual.... doofus.

 

[vintagesnaps]

Uh-oh I just got that book! LOL This should be interesting.

I don't think it's just photography, I think people are reading about and seeing things that in the past they would have had to spend time in the library learning about - now there are umpteen websites and videos that look more impressive than they are (just because someone does a spiffy video tutorial doesn't mean they understand what they're talking about). Seems to give people less than accurate info. and mistaken impressions about photography I think.

And if we didn't have the digital technology a lot of people out there with cameras who are trying to be photographers or mistakenly seem to think they are photographers as soon as they buy a DSLR probably wouldn't even have it as a hobby, much less be trying to underprice themselves and make some money as many seem to be doing (thanks in part to social media!). If they had to use film they'd probably just be taking pictures on holidays and vacations for personal enjoyment and leave it at that. For those of us who learned to use a camera before digital technology we had to learn and understand using a camera, now people sometimes can get by without so much of that if they can edit enough.

So maybe there are people into it that really aren't that into it, that given a few years and getting tired of hours of photoshopping and not making that much money at it etc. will eventually move on to something else. I'm thinking of the people who post beginner level questions and are talking about clients, which doesn't seem realistic. I've wondered sometimes where some people will be with their photography in say 5 years' time; I imagine the ones who really love it will still be with it and others may have realized it isn't so much their thing and find another hobby or sideline.

And I guess in general it's easy enough to find info. online and pick up the terminology etc. and if someone has a personality that's conducive to it, to talk about it more than to actually get off the computer and go do it!

 

[bribrius]

I actually think about this sometimes, I read most all of the threads here but rarely respond or share my own thoughts for various reasons, the biggest is I'm still working on my own opinion and learning so much that I prefer to keep my mouth shut lest I look stupid lol I'd MUCH prefer to hide behind an image I post and discuss things through it.

Bri, there is a place between not shooting and shooting obsessively that is a very powerful spot to learn. I was guilty of obsessive shooting at the start when I was learning, I can't tell you how many bird and squirrel shots I have from learning how to show them off and learn enough about them to try to predict a behaviour before it happens. I have a ton of panned shots from the car that are the "in betweens" they aren't great but not bad enough for me to toss, when I first started shooting them I was a fiend, I shot just about everything from every angle near and far, in some opinions perhaps I've clicked the button way too many times but I stand by how I taught myself, through repetition in different light, speed, panning motion etc... and I have only scratched the surface imho. Now I take significantly fewer shots with more intention because I know what to expect and what position to shoot my subject from (ahead, beside, behind as the car passes). Had I not shot and shot and shot I wouldn't have learned as much as I have to have the control over the conditions that I have now. Always remember, there is more than one way to skin a cat and sometimes that's clicking that shutter button over and over and over again.

i really go in phases. if i am trying to understand something or a technique, like the still life images in the other thread i never really tried much ill take fifteen or twenty photos of the objects. Or like panning, i probably took thirty photos that day in my panning thread just practicing panning. bw images i took a couple hundred doing that learning. But then i wont take another photo for days in between or even a week or more. walking around ill take ten photos on a walk once every few weeks or so the river and shutter speed photos for example, again learning. im very goal driven. so no goal or thing to learn at the moment, usually no photos. I probably have fifty images in learning portraits, but without the right lighting that isn't going far. i allocate shutter presses and time in some odd way. Often im looking for that certain ONE that i really want, which i don't find.

random shutters, just because, are usually when im taking photos of the kids.
so yeah, unless im into working on some particular thing, ill go days without taking a photo or more. Everyones different.

 

[timor]

Why is it that photography forums--amateur and professional--seem to attract those that like to TALK about photography far more than actually DOING it?

It's very similar to the warning sign I often see when I meet someone who claims to be a professional photographer and ALL they talk about is their EQUIPMENT--they show me NO IMAGES! And, many times, they have NO WEBSITE to show me!

These thoughts just popped-up after reading some of the posts to the "What can one read from a photograph" thread where some of the responces reminded me of the intellectual masturbation spouted by Susan Sontag....

Anyway, just thought I'd stir the hornets nest before leaving to check-out one of my photo-locations.

Professional, basically it means squat, anyone can call that himself. It sounds good and make people feel better about themselves.

 

[JerryLove]

Why is it that photography forums--amateur and professional--seem to attract those that like to TALK about photography far more than actually DOING it?

It's very similar to the warning sign I often see when I meet someone who claims to be a professional photographer and ALL they talk about is their EQUIPMENT--they show me NO IMAGES! And, many times, they have NO WEBSITE to show me!

These thoughts just popped-up after reading some of the posts to the "What can one read from a photograph" thread where some of the responses reminded me of the intellectual masturbation spouted by Susan Sontag....

Anyway, just thought I'd stir the hornets nest before leaving to check-out one of my photo-locations.

I came to a discussion board and people were discussing things. This disturbs me and so I'd like to discuss how discussions are bad.

Further: since all I see people doing on the discussion board is discussing, I can safely conclude that there are no other aspects of their life and thus that they are clearly *not* taking photos. By virtue of discussing, they must be doing naught but, and that's so bad I want to discuss it.

Personally: I've taken more than 6k photos in the last few of months. I've posted exactly 1 here and have no website (and am not a professional photographer). I suppose if you don't like conversations about photography, you could not participate in them.

 

[gsgary]

Not me i just like to masterbate