Just Started a Website, But I Have Some Questions

jmandell · Feb 1, 2014

Hello all,

I'm a junior in high school and I'm the sports photographer for the yearbook, and quite a few of the sports players have seen my images on Facebook, etc. and have inquired about purchasing prints. With this is mind I just got done with a Zenfolio site to start selling my shots, but I have a few questions before I get too into it.

1. I don't think I do, but would I need any sort of permission from the players before posting and selling?

2. Facebook is how I get the shots seen by the players and parents, but the photo security on Facebook is pretty much non-existant. I already upload low quality images, but was wondering if there were other ways of stopping people from just taking those shots w/o an ugly watermark?

3. I mostly shoot high school, but would I have greater success shooting the younger ages? I think that the parents of younger ages would be more inclined to purchase prints than those of high schoolers.

4. I also shoot landscapes and astrophotography, and I was wondering if it would a bad idea to include those on the site as well as sports. I'm not thinking it would, seeing as how some may come for the sports, and then end up getting a landscape shot too.

Thanks for all the help!

tirediron · Feb 1, 2014

1. Maybe so, maybe no. You don't indicate a location in your profile, so it's hard to be too accurate, but... assuming that they are playing in a venue which is open to the public, then probably not, HOWEVER, are you using your own equpment? Does the yearbook committtee have any restrictions on what you do with the images you take "on their time", and/or with their equipment. I would definitely check with the school administration on this.

2. Small size (max 800 pixels on the longest dimension, 75 ppi) and a low opacity watermark going diagonally from on corner to the other.

3. I would think not, since with the younger children, the parents are more likely to be present and taking millions of happy snaps with their cell phones. Can't hurt to try however.

4. Sure, separate galleries. My main shtick is headshots, but I have other stuff on my 'site, just divided into different galleries.

KmH · Feb 1, 2014

As for #1:
In the US, it depends on what state you are in, the circumstances regarding how the photo was made, and on how a photo will be used.
The laws that apply are not as cut and dried as laws like traffic laws.

This is an almost indispensable reference for any US photographer that sells photos - [url="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0470228563/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0470228563&linkCode=as2&tag=hdiumds-20]A Digital Photographer's Guide to Model Releases: Making the Best Business Decisions with Your Photos of People, Places and Things[/url]

JoeW · Feb 1, 2014

jmandell said:
Hello all,

I'm a junior in high school and I'm the sports photographer for the yearbook, and quite a few of the sports players have seen my images on Facebook, etc. and have inquired about purchasing prints. With this is mind I just got done with a Zenfolio site to start selling my shots, but I have a few questions before I get too into it.

1. I don't think I do, but would I need any sort of permission from the players before posting and selling?

2. Facebook is how I get the shots seen by the players and parents, but the photo security on Facebook is pretty much non-existant. I already upload low quality images, but was wondering if there were other ways of stopping people from just taking those shots w/o an ugly watermark?

3. I mostly shoot high school, but would I have greater success shooting the younger ages? I think that the parents of younger ages would be more inclined to purchase prints than those of high schoolers.

4. I also shoot landscapes and astrophotography, and I was wondering if it would a bad idea to include those on the site as well as sports. I'm not thinking it would, seeing as how some may come for the sports, and then end up getting a landscape shot too.

Thanks for all the help!

First of all...YOU ROCK! This is exactly how I got my start in photography (shooting in middle school, then shooting in HS and college doing sports and for the school paper). Of course, no websites back in the 60's and 70's. Also, I'm no lawyer. Issues about privacy, rights, and so on will vary from state to state. And...your age is a factor. Just as there are limits on the ability of people under 18 to enter in to binding contracts, that may have some implications for your ability to do business, sign contracts, and "own" the rights to certain things. Also, contact the local paper (like the weekly rag that focuses on the local community, not the Washington Post or LA Times or whatever the big paper is in your area) and offer to be a stringer for them for your HS games. It will give you a contact and press credentials. Which you can later use to try and get in to college or even pro games down the road.

Okay, here's my take on your questions:

1. Generally speaking, if it's a public event or newsworthy, model releases are not required. So if you were shooting a "public figure" (like the mayor) or it was in public (like on the street) or it was a public event (like a parade) you're safe. I assume you're shooting at games...that's a bit more problematic. Some school systems have figured out they can make money selling the rights to shoot events to photographers. Your school or your AD should be able to tell you this. Also, the school may regard athletic events or school property as not public space and not open to the public (for instance, most schools can deny permission to individuals or refuse to allow someone to enter). Also, there have been a couple of cases of male photographers (adults) taking photos of female athletes at events (I"m thinking in particular of a female pole-vaulter in California) that led to stalking and ultimately restrictions on photographers/requirements for permits, etc. at events. So check and be safe.

2. I suggest you still put the watermark on. And ideally your watermark would have contact info (J.mandellphoto.org...something like that). I hate to sound like a curmudgeon (and people do whenever they talk about other generations) but the last two generations have been pretty loose with property rights...lots of file sharing when it comes to music, movies, and photos. I personally think a watermark is best b/c people may "steal" the photo but they'll know how to reach you.

3. Younger athletes--damned if you do and damned if you don't. Here's the deal: you're more likely to have parents willing to pay for those shots of little Johnny striking out. you're also more likely to face restrictions and scrutiny ("who's the guy, that pervert, shooting pictures of the girl's gymnastic event?"). Middle schools are more likely to have restrictions or view this stuff skeptically and also limit this at events (b/c of so many parents showing up with flashes at the concert or middle school graduation or pep rally or basketball game).

4. My advice would be to segregate photos. Have folders or galleries for specific sports (b/c people won't assume that great football pictures mean you can shoot basketball or dance). And just have folders for landscape or "art". But the market you're going after is for parents of HS/MS athletes so that is what you need to focus on.

Here's something to think about: contact local leagues and ask about them hiring you to shoot all-star weekends. For instance, I was a soccer coach. Our league would hire a photographer during the all-star tournament weekend (typically 2 days) to go around and shoot the teams/players from our league at the tournament and then produce a CD which the league either sold to parents or made available. It would be a busy weekend (usually 2 days with about 20 teams male and female scattered over multiple playing fields) but it's a great way to build up a portfolio and get a rep. And that was just for soccer (which happened twice a year). There were dozens of other sports our league sponsored too. MS and HS level.

vintagesnaps · Feb 1, 2014

In my experience, in my area, in youth and high school sports the coaches get permission/releases signed by the parents. (I've been a teacher and we had to have permission for even our own agency to use photos of students in agency publications etc.) You could ask at your school about their procedures for student athletes.

There are differences between editorial use such as in a newspaper, and retail use such as a photographer profiting financially from using someone's image. I would be getting permission for under 18 for selling photos; I would not want to deal with having used someone's image and have it later become problematic (I've worked w/birth to 3 so in my non-photography work experience if there was a concern it was due to adoption, custody issues, etc.).

I think too that security of your photos on social media and many other websites is virtually nonexistent. Photographers I know who do portraits (I've done sports/events not studio work) usually set up and sell photos from a site where only the student and their family can access their own photos. If you're posting photos on any website - read the Terms & Conditions, or at least look thru them enough to know what you're allowing them to do with your photos.

There's info. related to concerns about photos and social media on ASMP's website; they and other pro photographers' organizations have joined together in efforts to help photographers protect their work. ASMP also has info. on business resources for photographers. American Society of Media Photographers

Steve5D · Feb 2, 2014

With regards to selling prints, why not do that?

Sell prints.

Have the people pick which shot they want and what size. Collect however much you're going to charge for it and go have it printed.

Hand over the print.

Done that way, the only issue you'd have to contend with is whether or not someone wants their photo on Facebook. Frankly, it sounds like no one's to spun up about that...