Just started my photography Biz need C&C PLEASE!

[thereyougo!]

What is your prIcing? Do you offer packages?

$50 for an hour and client gets DVD with all images edited and non with full printing rights.

And there's your problem. You are giving away too much and charging too little. In other words you are doing quantity over quality. I'm not a pro, but there is no way I would give someone 200 images for $50. You need to have more pride in your work and earn the entitlement to charge more by improving and developing your own style. You run a real risk of falling into a Facebook rut. After all if someone is paying you $50 an hour and that's good enough for you, why improve? I'm not saying that's how your thinking, but it's how a lot of "pro's" think. I would think very carefully before I gave anyone unedited work of mine. I would only want to give people the very best. The number of photographers that could give you 200+ top quality unedited photos is few to none. Stop it or else this could seriously damage your reputation. As others have said, once you hand them it, its out there and you can't get it back. Photographs are meant to be edited. Even years ago they were edited and tweaked in the darkroom. You have to be very fortunate indeed to get a perfect shot without editing. You aren't going to get one of those on every shoot let alone 200.

Take a bit of pride in your work - this means studying (not necessarily classroom - field work is just as if not more important) and practising, and then charging for quality and giving quality rather than quantity. Good value isn't necessarily about giving people lots of single items. It's about giving people something that HAS value. I'd rather have 20 fabulous images than 200 poor snapshots. Cheap is never good value, it's just cheap. When people think about cheap they think less about quality as they automatically discount it saying, "well it only cost $xxx."

A real shoot is probably nearer 50 considered shots, if that. The editing can take longer than the shots. You are therefore charging not just for the shooting time but for the whole job. You have to see the job as a whole, not just the parts. So you have to charge for the whole time that the job takes. Suddenly, it's not $50 for an hour's work, but for say 4 hour's work, which doesn't look as enticing. You have to have a business plan and decide how much to charge in accordance with your talent, and the amount of time that job will take.

I cringed when I read an article in the "turning pro" section of Photography monthly:

"Q: What is the best advice anyone has given you?"

A: "Really Sarah, you should be charging for this"

It's not what I would call advice. It's encouragement, sure, advice is more balanced and what we need to hear not necessarily what we want to hear.

Her newborn images are ok. But unremarkable and I've seen similar on here. Lots of people are told this and take it to heart. I've been told this myself. I have some images that I'm really proud of, but my knowledge of photography and in particular editing is not high enough. I shoot often on instinct, but instinct isn't enough.

Finally, if you are going to continue to charge think carefully about registering. It's not just your friends that look on Facebook. Tax authorities do too, and I'll bet they are aware of Facebook photographers. If you can't prove what you are earning they'll no doubt give their own estimate, and it won't be one you'll like. Have a look through the professional area for a poster that got caught out.

 

[cgipson1]

Even if you spend less than a minute on each shot (taking it, Hopefully editing, sharpening, cleaning it up, checking exposure, etc)... two hundred shots is two hundred minutes.... a little over three hours of work... so $50 divided by 3 is $16.66 per Hour! WOW.... YOU WORK CHEAP.. and that is if you only spend ONE MINUTE on each photo (which is IMPOSSIBLE for decent work)! I am not saying you should charge more.. you shouldn't.. you don't deliver quality photos (yet! You may one of these days, if you really work at it!). But you could almost make that working at McDonalds! lol!

 

[MTVision]

Even if you spend less than a minute on each shot (taking it, Hopefully editing, sharpening, cleaning it up, checking exposure, etc)... two hundred shots is two hundred minutes.... a little over three hours of work... so $50 divided by 3 is $16.66 per Hour! WOW.... YOU WORK CHEAP.. and that is if you only spend ONE MINUTE on each photo (which is IMPOSSIBLE for decent work)! I am not saying you should charge more.. you shouldn't.. you don't deliver quality photos (yet! You may one of these days, if you really work at it!). But you could almost make that working at McDonalds! lol!

I don't think you should charge either - even if they offer. Most people offer to pay (if you said you'd do it for free) they are being nice and don't expect you to take it. Do you want to be a child photographer, family, seniors, what? Spend your time building your portfolio - offer mini sessions to a few people here and there and just give them a couple of the edited pictures.

You'll get experience, exposure and if you do a great job - you'll start building a client base - hopefully a client base that doesn't mind spending a few hundred on photography.

Tons of tutorials out there - read up on how to do a clean edit and stay away from actions for now. You'll also learn how to edit better if you stay away from gimmicky editing (haze, sepia, selective color and even b/w). B/w images aren't gimmicky but most people new to editing don't produce very nice b/w images.

 

[manaheim]

I swear nothing in this thread offends and irritates me more than the comments on "setting up a legitimate business"... As if any of you people talking about it know a blessed thing.

License? Permit? Really?

I don't know what state OP lives in, and I wouldn't profess to know the laws there, but it's just possible that there are no requirements for such a thing.

What's more, is this... How many people do you think actually look up the photographers "business license" before hiring them?

What's even more is this... Do you honestly think the difference between "Facebook photographer" and "credible" is some stupid piece of paper obtained with a signature and a $25 filing fee?

What we are talking about here is ignorance... And worse is ignorance gone professorial. This forum is rife with it and it disgusts me.

There's nothing wrong with saying "gee I wonder if you should get some sort of a permit", but you people don't do that, do you? No. You jump up on your high horse and start telling people how horrible they are for not fulfilling all the requirements of your fictitious foolishness.

And it doesn't stop merely at legal and business advice! The denizens of this place are without shame. The questionable commentary bleeds into all aspects one can imagine.

If you really don't know you should phrase it as such or keep your mouth shut. Period.

 

[classixuk]

I know I'm only new here, and I've yet to post a shot for C&C (as I have yet to take any I'd be OK with posting as they're all snapshots IMO) but something does strike me as being very odd about this thread.

The description from this part of the forum states:

"Forum: Photography Beginners' Forum & Photo Gallery: Brand new to photography, or brushing up on some of the basics? Don’t be shy! Talk to other beginners and ask all your basic photographic questions here. Show us some of the photos you have taken so far and get some review - so you can learn where there is room for improvement!"

So the way I see it, the OP is a beginner. Yes, she made a blooper in stating that she has a photography business, but she rectified that pretty quickly within a few posts. She accepted the critique and is learning from it. I'm not the only newbie who feels I have learned something from it too. The links on composition and back-focusing in particular were really helpful. Thanks to those who posted them.

But then mid-way through the thread, we have 2 allegedly professional photographers having a 'penis war' with eachother comparing eachother's previous shots/critiques and who is allegedly working paid tomorrow and who might be flipping burgers? If either of them were THAT good at photography, they wouldn't be hanging around the absolute beginner's sections doling out C&C across THOUSANDS of posts in just a few months - they'd have a full appointment book and be enjoying the financial fruits of their labours from photography. You don't need to understand the exposure triangle to understand that basic observation.

To the 'pros' who think they are THAT amazing, why not go hang out in the pro section of this website and play among your own kind? Or is it a case of you being a very big fish in a very small sea here in the absolute beginners forum?

To the ones (beginners and pros alike) who offered advice, links and explanations for the benefit of the OP and us all, I thank you.

I'd write much more, but I'm off out to sarcastically tease a toddler for not being able to walk before they can crawl - feeds my ego you see!

 

[mishele]

I swear nothing in this thread offends and irritates me more than the comments on "setting up a legitimate business"... As if any of you people talking about it know a blessed thing.

License? Permit? Really?

I don't know what state OP lives in, and I wouldn't profess to know the laws there, but it's just possible that there are no requirements for such a thing.

What's more, is this... How many people do you think actually look up the photographers "business license" before hiring them?

What's even more is this... Do you honestly think the difference between "Facebook photographer" and "credible" is some stupid piece of paper obtained with a signature and a $25 filing fee?

What we are talking about here is ignorance... And worse is ignorance gone professorial. This forum is rife with it and it disgusts me.

There's nothing wrong with saying "gee I wonder if you should get some sort of a permit", but you people don't do that, do you? No. You jump up on your high horse and start telling people how horrible they are for not fulfilling all the requirements of your fictitious foolishness.

And it doesn't stop merely at legal and business advice! The denizens of this place are without shame. The questionable commentary bleeds into all aspects one can imagine.

If you really don't know you should phrase it as such or keep your mouth shut. Period.

You didn't drink your morning coffee yet, did you? :greenpbl:

 

[gerardo2068]

Funny stuff making my morning . Keep it up, I'm just going to the kitchen for another cup of coffee

 

[Elizabeth30]

professional photographers having a 'penis war' with eachother

LMAO!! :lmao: I about fell on the floor!! Thanks for brightening my morning!

 

[AgentDrex]

If you have a passion for making money with your camera, it'll be imperative to get out of letting the camera do the work for you. You could just as well use full auto. Perhaps you can try to check what the camera decided for exposure in full auto, switch to manual, dial in the same settings and see what happens.

You're going to get a few laughs from stating you run a photography business with little knowledge of the equipment. Unfortunately, its seems though a lot of businesses suffer from this same mishap.

Though I agree that learning the exposure triangle (aperture, shutter speed, ISO) is important, I feel that knowing a good compositonal placement of your subject is more important. The exposure as part of that composition will be your key to making your photos have a unique style. Good exposure never alleviates a lame compositional placement of the subject.

 

[cgipson1]

To the 'pros' who think they are THAT amazing, why not go hang out in the pro section of this website and play among your own kind? Or is it a case of you being a very big fish in a very small sea here in the absolute beginners forum?

To the ones (beginners and pros alike) who offered advice, links and explanations for the benefit of the OP and us all, I thank you.

I'd write much more, but I'm off out to sarcastically tease a toddler for not being able to walk before they can crawl - feeds my ego you see!

Well... after this remark.. I probably won't bother C&C'ing any of your stuff (although I might make fun of it!) ... and it is usually in the evening (when I don't have work) is when I do this.. for relaxation and entertainment. You see.. anyone here with any knowledge spends more time trying to help the "Beginners" than they do discussing "pro" stuff.... that is why the forum is here! And when someone who really doesn't have clue speaks up and tells us how to do it better... lol!

 

[bazooka]

To the 'pros' who think they are THAT amazing, why not go hang out in the pro section of this website and play among your own kind [...]

To the ones (beginners and pros alike) who offered advice, links and explanations for the benefit of the OP and us all, I thank you.

How would the "pro's" be able to give advice, links, and explanations for benefit of everyone if they are off playing with themselves?

 

[MLeeK]

Damn it. I went to bed AGAIN last night. I have got to learn to quit doing that. I miss everything!

 

[Diver_matt]

If by providing c&c you really want to help someone learn, then HOW you provide it is as important as what you provide. "you did this, this and this wrong" vs "next time try this, angle that, fix this and I think you'll see an improvement". If you choose the former, the tone often overrides the message. If you don't care about that, you aren't sincerely trying to help others learn.

 

[cgipson1]

It's important to remember C&C is Comments & Critique, not condescending and cocky. LOL.

only the smartasses get the Condescending and Cocky!

 

[MLeeK]

200 images is WAY to many for a session. If you shoot 200 images per session you are going to go through a camera every 750 sessions-provided you are shooting with professional grade gear.
There are many many many things written on how many images you should be offering per session, but what it boils down to is that you need to only offer the best of the very best and only one or two of each set or pose. Reasoning in short: too many choices make it impossible to choose and that reduces your profitability in prints; editing time is money. You have to make money for your time and you can't edit 200 AND profit. So if you only edit say 30 and give them 200 there is now 170 images out there with your name on it that are not polished, finished images. That is not representative of your true style and skill-the edited ones are. You want your images to suck every one who views them in your front door. Those other 170 aren't going to do it
That's a conversation for another day.

HaHA well I DO NOT edit 200 images!! I only took 200 during one of my sessions and I only edited about 20 of them.

You need to read that again. I said no where that you did edit all 200. I said you did yourself a disservice by sending out 170 unfinished images to represent you. And that you'd be going throug a camera every 750 sessions-provided you were using a professional grade camera. Which you aren't. So you're now looking at somewhere around 500 sessions. Do not let those other 170 go. They speak poorly of you. No one expects you to edit 200 images. They expect the 20.