Lens selection for indoor sports.

[Diesel6401]

Hello. New to the forums, just got my first dslr (T3) and have a question. I bought a bundle that came with 2 lens.
Lens I have:
EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS II
EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III

The question I have is I will be taking some photos of indoor high-school wrestling matches. I assume the lighting will be lower so will my current selection of lens work? Would the 18-55 with the ISO locked <400 and f/3.5 in Av mode work OK? Should I purchase a new lens with a lower F? Would shooting in "sports" be better? I'm really new to all of this. This is my first dslr, i owned a S5 IS prior.

This is what I was looking at:
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/ef_lens_lineup/ef_50mm_f_1_8_ii

 

[SnS]

I am new to the whole dslr game, I have a very similar setup to yours that I've been working with (T4i w/18-55 kit lens). I'm sure somebody will correct me if I give wrong info though.
With some practice, your current lenses should work ok to get some photos for friends/family. Problem is you will have to bump ISO much higher than 400 to get fast enough shutter speed to avoid blurry pictures, which is going to add some noise/grain to them. Both lenses you have will change the available aperture to 5.6 as they are zoomed in. With a low ISO, smaller aperture and low light, shutter speeds will have to be slowed down to get the correct exposure (causing blur) or the photos will be too dark. Problem with AV mode "ISO-400/F3.5" is to keep the f-stop at 3.5, you won't be able to zoom in. Biggest problem though, is even zoomed out with those setting, your camera will choose a shutter speed that is too long to stop any fast action.

 

[TCampbell]

The question is... where will you be when you're taking these shots? On the floor? Up in some bleachers?

A lens with a lower focal ratio will collect a lot more light. For example, an f/2.8 zoom collects four times as much light as a zoom that can only manage f/5.6. But f/2.8 zooms are expensive. Hence my question about where you'll be when taking these shots (how far away?)

There are also f/4 zooms... not quite as fast as the f/2.8 zooms, but they'll collect twice as much light as a the typical variable focal ratio zoom when zoomed in at f/5.6.

You can get a "prime" lens (a prime is a lens that does not zoom) and these tend to offer significantly lower focal ratios. But as you can't zoom, you need the right prime for the situation.

I noticed you linked the "nifty fifty". If you're down on the floor not too far from the action then that'll be fine. It's probably ok for wrestling but I wouldn't recommend that lens for sports where the action is moving a lot. The 50mm f/1.8 has a slow focus motor and wont keep up with, say, a basketball game where the players are constantly on the move.

The thing to keep in mind is that f/4 collects twice as much light as f/5.6. That means you can increase the shutter speed to half or you can drop the ISO by half (choice is yours). f/2.8 collects twice as much light as f/4 (or four times as much as f/5.6). f/2 collects twice as much again, and f/1.4 collects twice as much again. That means an f/2 lens is collecting eight times as much light as an f/5.6 and an f/1.4 lens is collecting sixteen times as much.

Be careful with very low focal ratios. You need to be aware that while they collect more light, the depth-of-field (focused area) gets narrower. On a 50mm lens at f/2, if the lens is focused for a subject 20' away, the depth of field is less than 4' thick. At f/1.4 it's less than 3' thick (2.6'). That means only *part* or your wrestlers will be in focus. By being a bit less aggressive (say f/2.8 and a focused distance of 25' you get a DoF that's a bit over 8' thick. NOW you can comfortably get your wrestlers completely in focus.)

You can look these up by using a depth-of-field calculator. DoFmaster.com has an online calculator you can use. If you own a smartphone there are some free DoF calculators that you can download.

 

[MLeeK]

I am new to the whole dslr game, I have a very similar setup to yours that I've been working with (T4i w/18-55 kit lens). I'm sure somebody will correct me if I give wrong info though.

With some practice, your current lenses should work ok to get some photos for friends/family. Problem is you will have to bump ISO much higher than 400 to get fast enough shutter speed to avoid blurry pictures, which is going to add some noise/grain to them. Both lenses you have will change the available aperture to 5.6 as they are zoomed in. With a low ISO, smaller aperture and low light, shutter speeds will have to be slowed down to get the correct exposure (causing blur) or the photos will be too dark. Problem with AV mode "ISO-400/F3.5" is to keep the f-stop at 3.5, you won't be able to zoom in. Biggest problem though, is even zoomed out with those setting, your camera will choose a shutter speed that is too long to stop any fast action.

Not without help somehow. Shooting with ISO 12800 (does the t3 even go to 12800? I don't think it does) and f/5.6 (fully zoomed) you will rarely get a shot with an adequate shutter speed that would not require major boost in exposure in post which will increase the noise even more and render your images totally useless. IF I am lucky I can shoot at f/3.5 in the best gyms. I think I get to shoot in about 2 every year. Considering we wrestle from November through August-that's not promising. I probably see 75+ gyms in a year.

I shoot wrestling extensively and in short: No. Your lenses aren't going to be adequate. But adding a speedlite will help. An f/2.8 lens is almost a necessity if you don't want the shadows caused by flash, but for a starter year you can make it work. DO not think that the sports mode will work-it won't. Not without some major education in how to make it work and then there is a better way that is easier.

The DOF isn't so much of a concern with wrestling. All of my shots with the exception of the upside down guy are shot from the very edge of the mat. The shallow DOF will work in your favor. I wouldn't want to drop less than f/2.8 in most situations. There are so many distractions even on the edge of the mat in most situations that you REALLY want that shallow DOF. We're talking like 1 foot or right in that range being good.

This is f/3.5, 1/125 ISO 2000 with an off camera flash. This gym does the 'fight light' directly above the mat. Most don't

This one was in a farily well lit gym
f/2.8; ISO 3200 and a shutter of 1/200 which as you can see is too slow-it's blurred from motion

Same gym, same settings

This one is a WELL lit gym with another shutter speed that was way too slow
f/2.8, ISO 2500 1/200

This last one is about an average lit gym
ISO 12800; f/2.8 1/400 (about right for wrestling)

 

[fjrabon]

The first thing you'll have to realize is that the lenses you have won't be at f/3.5. They're variable aperture, which means as you zoom in closer, their minimum f stop goes up. So, at 18mm, your kit lens can shoot at f/3.5, sure. But at 50mm, you're probably looking at something in the 4-4.5 range-ish (not familiar with that particular lens to know exactly what f stop it would be at though). Even if you're own the very front row, 50mm will be about as wide as you can use. Anything wider than that and you'll get the whole gym. Honestly you'll often be at 70-120mm, which on the gear you have currently will mean minimum f stops in the f/5 range.

Second, as MLeek said, you won't get anything remotely usable in a gym at ISO 400 and f/4. To use even f/4, you're looking at needing to shoot AT LEAST ISO 6400. For wrestling, you'll need at least shutter speed of 1/320, but often more like 1/400. You really need f/2.8 to do this.

There's a reason why people say sports is the most expensive genre of photography. It just requires big, expensive glass and bodies that can handle high ISO. If you're shooting landscape photography, pretty much any modern dSLR can stake stunning photographs, even with the kit lens. If you're shooting sports, sorry, you need a big boy/gal lens if you want half way decent results.

 

[Diesel6401]

Wow thanks for all the information. I will be down low on the matt. This is just more or less a one-time thing to catch a co-workers sons wrestling match. I don't believe this will become a steady thing. I didn't mind springing for the 50mm lens as it is less than $100, but after buying this camera and the holiday shopping right around the corner I dont have much money for more expensive lens. I was hoping something I had or more affordable could catch some half way decent shots.

 

[fjrabon]

Wow thanks for all the information. I will be down low on the matt. This is just more or less a one-time thing to catch a co-workers sons wrestling match. I don't believe this will become a steady thing. I didn't mind springing for the 50mm lens as it is less than $100, but after buying this camera and the holiday shopping right around the corner I dont have much money for more expensive lens. I was hoping something I had or more affordable could catch some half way decent shots.

If it's not serious, just jack the ISO to the sky and roll with it. noisy images are better than blurry images. You can probably get away with shooting in Tv with SS at 1/320, auto ISO. I'd save the $100 you were going to spend on the 50mm f/1.8 for something else. To this day it shocks me that Canon is still willing to put their name brand on that thing.

 

[MLeeK]

Wow thanks for all the information. I will be down low on the matt. This is just more or less a one-time thing to catch a co-workers sons wrestling match. I don't believe this will become a steady thing. I didn't mind springing for the 50mm lens as it is less than $100, but after buying this camera and the holiday shopping right around the corner I dont have much money for more expensive lens. I was hoping something I had or more affordable could catch some half way decent shots.

If it's not serious, just jack the ISO to the sky and roll with it. noisy images are better than blurry images. You can probably get away with shooting in Tv with SS at 1/320, auto ISO. I'd save the $100 you were going to spend on the 50mm f/1.8 for something else. To this day it shocks me that Canon is still willing to put their name brand on that thing.

Just adding a few things to his settings:
AI Servo for focusing, one focus point. You will probably need a + Exposure compensation because the mats are all darker than middle gray. Maybe as much as +1.

 

[2WheelPhoto]

Hi ISO cam and 70-200mm f2.8 will serve you well