Lighting Setup & Specular Highlights

[Derrel]

Yeah ,The grid fits inside the reflector, and the diffusion disc is installed in front of of the grid. That is the way it was designed to work. The idea comes from the lighting equipment manufacturer itself.

You can check out other ways to do it, but this is the way Speedo has designed its grids and it clip-on
Mylar diffusers. These are not cheap, crappy products, and they cost a bit of money but they last for years and years. You can also buy diffusion material by the sheet and put it in filter holders. It depends upon your brand of lights.

the honeycomb grid slips into the metal reflector. The Speedotron clip-on diffusers have three clips that attach to the rolled rim of a typical grid reflectorand they are designed to be stackable.My experience has been that the 11.5 inch deep reflector, called the "50° Grid Reflector" works very well when fitted with a 20° or 35° honeycomb grid,and one or two layers of frosted diffuser material, and the company's two-way barn doors. Their 20 inch reflector also works extremely well when modified this way. Until you have tried it,"You don't know what you are missing."

This system was designed by America's first manufacturer of studio electronic flash. This company began offering professional grade studio flash units before World War II, around 1939. I have no idea why you have any doubts. I have been using this for a third of a century. This type of diffusing material works splendidly, and is not cheap crap.

I am a little bit taken aback by some of the comments made in this thread about diffusing material (not)changing the inherent character of studio electronic flash. If diffusing material were so useless,then why has it had such a long long history in cinematography and in professional commercial and portrait photography ?

 

[mrca]

Derrel, I like placing a diffusing panel over a silver panel on my 3x6 as fill. A bit more pop with the specularity minimized. I also keep a 6.5x6.5 on a rolling stand. I can roll it into place with one hand and have a black on one side white on the other. Can use with a diffuser panel and roll it in front of a light for a larger, more diffused source. Dean Collins was a fan of using that set up. When I want to diffuse my fresnels to have continuous light that is diffused, that is what I do. When it comes to controlling speculars, covered well in Science and Magic. A shot of me with my dreadnought Martin guitar is one huge glossy box. Had to manage light
angle to guitar and my face.

 

[smoke665]

am a little bit taken aback by some of the comments made in this thread about diffusing material (not)changing the inherent character of studio electronic flash. If diffusing material were so useless,then why has it had such a long long history in cinematography and in professional commercial and portrait photography ?

I don't think anyone is arguing that it doesn't in some manner change the characteristics of the light. JB's explanation above was pretty good "If the light to subject distance and size of the light source doesn't change then effectively yes, the quality of the light from a bare strobe or one with diffusion doesn't really change the hardness or softness, with caveats. One caveat is, does the actual lamp cast uneven illumination due to characteristics of the illumination projection, think of a filament flashlight bulb. In that case a layer of diffusion will even out the illumination."

One thing not addressed by anyone is how much does space between the diffusion layers affect the diffusion effect?

 

[Derrel]

The amount of space between the lamp and the diffusion screen is what makes scrim lighting so versatile, so adjustable to the situation. One could place the light unit very close or fairly far from the diffusion material and markedly change the nature of the light.

I think you should experiment a little bit on your own as you did with the distance experiment a few months ago. Take a diffuser panel or scrim and shoot a light through it from various distances ranging from 6 inches to about 3 feet. This will teach you an extremely valuable lesson about diffusion. I cannot possibly put into words enough to describe what you'll learn.

 

[smoke665]

I think you should experiment a little bit on your own as you did with the distance experiment a few months ago

Actually thinking the same, that it would make an interesting learning experiment. Will be back in this coming week, so will see what I can come up with. Also want to try a double diffusion experiment with the material stacked (no space between) and various distance between the diffusion material.

 

[Derrel]

There is nothing quite like doing your own experiments. I am no longer able to write out lengthy and clear descriptions. larger diffusion panels are supremely versatile and can be used in many many different ways with both silk and ripstop nylon and reflective white and subtrative black fabrics. In commercially made fabrics, there are also silver and gold lame types of reflective fabric. The frames can be made from whatever material you have.

As I alluded to above,the rather lengthy PDF document called tinker tools (or whatever) shows blueprints for well over 50 home built PVC pipe lighting devices. I am sure that if you search for it you can find it posted somewhere on the World Wide Web.

Somewhere I have a lighting diagram that utilizes one panel/frame and a double thickness of white silk material to create incredibly beautiful catch lights that are relatively huge on the eyeball and which uses a doubled layer of fabric through which the key light is directed and which hits the subject with diffuse light,but allows hot, unfiltered light to strike the background,which is gray paper but which is elevated up to white by way of it receiving much more light then goes through the diffusing material and because the light is closer to the background than to the subject. Because there are two layers of fabric where the light that hits the subject goes through, this light is soft and is diffused,and knocked down about two stops; because the light that hits the background paper is raw and un-diffused and it is substantially closer to the background than is the light that is angled through the diffusion panel, it elevates the gray up to white! I was shown this technique at a lighting workshop some years ago,and was impressed by both the beauty of the catch lights from the large illuminated scrim, and was impressed with the ability to lift a gray paper up to white, all the while using just one 400 Watt-second flash.

Let's put it this way: a 42" x 72" large panel is a lot of square inches -- larger than a 6 foot diameter umbrella. This large of a panel will give you very soft light and will greatly cut down on specular skin reflections. I personally am very fond of panels in this size,42" x 72", which is a good size For many uses. 42x42 inch square reflectors are also very useful.

With simple math I have determined that a panel which is 42 inches wide by 72 inches tall creates a light source that is 3,024 in.² In terms of sheer size that is a very large light source.

One can either buy or can make white ripstop nylon diffusion panels.fabric stores sell amply wide lengths of this material, And it does not take too awful long to sew elastic retaining strips at the corners of each fabric.

 

[Derrel]

OK I think that perhaps we are overthinking this a little bit, but then again maybe not. Some food for thought: take two diffusing panels and place them as close as possible,or use two fabrics on one panel and shine a light through them. You'll find that adding the second layer of fabric substantially diffuses the light. If howeveryou put one panel in front of the light, and put a second panel 1 foot away you'll have even softer light. The idea that a second layer of diffusion does nothing because the two are basically touching is beyond me. I have to question the idea that the number of layers of diffusion material has no bearing on the quality of light.

 

[smoke665]

OK I think that perhaps we are overthinking this a little bit, but then again maybe not

Being retired has it's luxuries. LOL I just need to figure out to best show/record the results.

 

[Derrel]

How about one photo from four different lighting set-ups? That should be plenty, just one photo made with each of several different set ups.

 

[dennyr]

here's the one I bought: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CXFDGDK/ref=psdc_14014901_t3_B07FCSVDBR?th=1

Nice.
It would probably require 10 of those to equal the weight of my metallic BD

 

[Braineack]

Served me well this weekend:

the huge 3x4' softbox doesn't hurt either...

 

[Derrel]

All of these made in China fabric light modifiers as well as metallic beauty dishes have really lowered the price. My first soft box was 149.99 ---today A similar unit can be bought from China for around 35 bucks; although the quality is not as good,the price of entry has been lowered dramatically!

 

[smoke665]

My first soft box was 140 999

$140 k+ for a softbox, must have been a good one! LOL Sorry, couldn't resist, glad I'm not the only one with big fingers.

To your comment though, yes it's possible to buy the cheap models that will work for the occasional use, but the better quality models will still run you from $150-$300 or more depending on size. While the boxes might not differ much in their ability to reflect light, things like longevity and ease of setup are much better on the more expensive models. When it comes to diffusion material I've found some significant difference between the cheaper cloth and diffusion fabrics, and with the cost difference being so small it really doesn't make sense to go cheap.

 

[Soocom1]

I am soooooo going to get hammered for this....



given that I have a small amount of experience with sewing and know my way around a Bernina, I was very much on the side of buying alot of lighting eq. for years and then someone said you could rig it a few different ways.

some of them went away through use and a first class wind storm, but...

Ill have to either dig out the pics or post new ones, but I home brewed a few reflectors with tripods from Goodwill with no heads, and made some frames with muslin cloth bleached white of white.

it works.

 

[smoke665]

made some frames with muslin cloth bleached white of white.

Nothing wrong with DYI, but as in my previous comment diffusion fabrics are relatively inexpensive, and there's a wide range of types available https://www.amazon.com/ALZO-Nylon-Diffusion-Fabric-Inches/dp/B0019HZQSO to more expensive Diffusion Fabrics from Rose Brand

I found this article interesting on the effect different materials have Diffusion Confusion - The American Society of Cinematographers