Long exposure shots during daylight without any filters

[batmura]

Hello!

First of all, I'm an absolute beginner, so I'd appreciate replies in that manner. Recently I have been watching videos on YouTube about how to take photos with long exposures. Yesterday, I watched video with Scott Kelby where he was giving a short tutorial on shooting photos of the seaside. After emphasizing the importance of using a tripod and remote cable, he put a "natural density filter with 9 stops" on his lens which he said would reduce the amount of daylight (they were shooting at around 2 p.m.) and I was wondering if it is possible to shoot similar photos without any filters. I only have the kit lens and do not want to invest in any filters before getting to know my first DSLR a little better.

If Kelby had shot the picture without that filter, would the sea not be as calm as it looked? If not, does this mean one can never shoot waterfalls during daylight without using any filters under any circumstances?

 

[mjhoward]

he put a "natural density filter with 9 stops" on his lens which he said would reduce the amount of daylight (they were shooting at around 2 p.m.) and I was wondering if it is possible to shoot similar photos without any filters.

Not really. You can use the lowest ISO and the smallest aperture to get the shutter speed down, but you are going to have some image quality issues with using the smallest possible aperture and even that may not reduce the shutter speed enough to get the effect you're after. BTW, it's NEUTRAL density filter, not Natural.

 

[ceejtank]

The longer the shutter stays open, the more light is let in. What the ND filter is doing is blocking a decent amount of that light (9 stops worth) so that the image will be properly exposed. Shooting in full sunlight for long times will make your image incredibly bright (over exposed). If you sot when there was very little light out, then you can use a longer shutter speed without problems.

That being said, play with your "Time Value" or "shutter speed" setting. You'll see the longer you go, the higher the Fstop, and that's because the camera is adjusting the aperature based on the shutter speed to give you a properly exposed image.

In the example you mentioned above (shooting in daylight around 2 PM) you would need a ND filter to block out enough light to give you a properly exposed image.

 

[batmura]

Does this mean all those tutorials I've been watching on YouTube with amazing photos were all shot with ND filters and such? Kelby advises to use the Bulb mode on Manual with a 2 minute exposure. At this point, I want to shoot a long exposure photo without any filters? What are my options? Can I shoot some at sunset?

 

[Big Mike]

If Kelby had shot the picture without that filter, would the sea not be as calm as it looked? If not, does this mean one can never shoot waterfalls during daylight without using any filters under any circumstances?

You could shoot water during the daytime...but a shutter speed that will give you proper exposure, probably won't be long enough to give you the blur that you want. As mentioned, you can get a longer shutter speed by using a smaller aperture and a low ISO, but that's your limit. After that, your only options will be to shoot when it's darker, or use filters.

 

[batmura]

you can get a longer shutter speed by using a smaller aperture and a low ISO, but that's your limit. After that, your only options will be to shoot when it's darker, or use filters.

How much darker? Are we talking about sunset time or night dark with only city lights?

 

[ceejtank]

Does this mean all those tutorials I've been watching on YouTube with amazing photos were all shot with ND filters and such? Kelby advises to use the Bulb mode on Manual with a 2 minute exposure. At this point, I want to shoot a long exposure photo without any filters? What are my options? Can I shoot some at sunset?

it depends on the shot you're referring to.. If it's sunny out and you're going for 2 minutes, then yes you will need a filter. Shooting in a darker setting, perhaps a little after sunset could get it for you.

I would suggest taking your camera to a place you can try it around sunset, and playing with the settings until you get something that works for you. You're trying to recreate a very specific type of picture, without using the recommended equipment for the example you've been given.

A picture is what light is reflected off an object, and then captured on your medium (whether it be film or a digital sensor).. so the amount of light comign into a camera plays a large role in what the picture will come out like.

 

[batmura]

What about night streaks/tail lights? If I go on a bridge and do a long exposure shoot of cars passing by, would I still need filters?

 

[ceejtank]

Here is an example of a photo I took for a time value of I believe 8 seconds. This was taken after the sun had set. You can see how bright it still is, and this was probably 30 minutes after sunset. So if this was open for 2 minutes, the picture would have been completely blown out. I'll need to tell you all the EXIF data when I get home.

 

[ceejtank]

What about night streaks/tail lights? If I go on a bridge and do a long exposure shoot of cars passing by, would I still need filters?

No. I posted an example of a shutter speed of 8 seconds at night I took earlier this year, you can see cars passing by in it. For star trails, you need a very long exposure and a very dark sky (not a lot of light around you)

 

[batmura]

That is the type of photo I want to shoot! I am a beginner and I realize I need a lot of experience, but at this point I want to shoot some photos without any filters.

You said this picture would have been "blown out" if the shutter was open for 2 minutes? What does that mean? What about the bulb mode? Do you ever use it? What would have happened if Kelby had shot the picture with a 2-second shot rather than 30+ with the filters? What would be different? I'm trying to understand the difference between 2 and 8 or 30 seconds at this time? How does one decide (or know) how long they'll keep the shutter open?

Again, sorry if these questions sound stupid...

 

[batmura]

If it's sunny out and you're going for 2 minutes, then yes you will need a filter.

What if I go for 20 seconds instead of 2 minutes? Is a filter still necessary? By the way, I assume you were using a tripod for that picture above?

 

[fjrabon]

blown out means that the picture has recorded almost pure white because too much light has hit the sensor and all detail is lost.

You probably just need to study the basics of exposure before you start thinking about how to shoot a particular type of photograph. Because until you understand the basics of exposure you'll just be coming here every time you want a certain shot and asking "how should I set my camera?!" every single time. Once you understand how the basics of exposure work, you can figure out a lot of stuff like the questions you are asking by just applying that knowledge and some basic logic.

Ultimately it all boils down to this:

1) you need X amount of effective light to achieve Y brightness in a given photo. THis is a direct relationship, ie the more effective light, the brighter the photo. Photographers refer to this as the exposure.

2) The amount of light in the environment plus any flash you may use is the first factor to consider. The light in the environment is referred to as the ambient light. For the shot you are referring to above, ambient light is all there is. Obviously the more ambient light there is, the more light there is.

3) The shutter speed controls how long the shutter is open. Obviously the longer it is open, the more ambient light is let in. (this doesn't work for flash, since flash flashes for as long as the flash flashes, the shutter speed doesn't change that until you get to extremely fast speeds). Shutter speed also obviously effects the amount of 'movement' captured in the image. What causes the 'silky' look you want is that the water is moving. So when you capture it for a long time, it creates an averaged out look, which is smooth and silky.

4) the aperture (f/stop) controls the rate at which the light comes into the camera. ie its essentially how large the opening that lets light into the camera is. THe larger the opening, the more light that can pour in, the smaller, the less that can pour in. It also controls how much of your frame is in focus. If the hole is very large (an aperture of f/2, for instance), then the depth that is in focus will be small. If the opening is tiny (f/22 for example) then almost the entire image will appear in focus.

5) The ISO controls how much the light that comes in is amplified (for digital that is, for film it controls how sensitive the film is to light). So if a picture is X bright at ISO 100, its 2X bright at ISO 200. At high values ISO also can cause noise and color desaturation as well.

For the look you want, you want a long shutter speed. You usually need about 45 seconds at least to get even moderately silky water. In daylight, this is a LONG time for a shutter to be open. A normal shutter speed in full daylight at a normal aperture (say f/11) and ISO 100 is something like 1/40 a second. So you're essentially letting in 1,600 times as much light with that shutter speed as you'd normally want. This will mean that even if you go all the way down to f/22 (the smallest most consumer grade lenses will go), way too much light will be entering the camera if your shutter is open for 45 seconds. The water will be smooth, because it wil be completely white, just like everything else in the picture, your picture will come out completely white and all detail will be lost.

Neutral density filters are basically like sunglasses for your camera. Very high quality sunglasses that don't change the color of the light (hence neutral). a 9 stop ND filter basically means you are cutting the amount of light that gets in down by 256 times (each stop is half as much light, thus 1 stop down is 1/2, 2 stops down is 1/4, 3 stops down is 1/8,etc) . Thus allowing you to take a long exposure in the daylight without making your picture pure white.

Your solutions to this problem without a ND filter is basically shoot when it's less bright. Either about 45 minutes after sunset, or 15 minutes after sunset when it's very overcast (this can be a dramatic shot indeed, as you get the rolling clouds as well).

 

[Big Mike]

The only way you are going to find answers to these questions...is to go out and see for yourself. The more you practice, the better of an idea you will have.

 

[enzodm]

The best thing is to study the basics. Search for "exposure triangle", or better buy a good beginner book on photography.

That is the type of photo I want to shoot! I am a beginner and I realize I need a lot of experience, but at this point I want to shoot some photos without any filters.

You said this picture would have been "blown out" if the shutter was open for 2 minutes? What does that mean? What about the bulb mode? Do you ever use it? What would have happened if Kelby had shot the picture with a 2-second shot rather than 30+ with the filters? What would be different? I'm trying to understand the difference between 2 and 8 or 30 seconds at this time? How does one decide (or know) how long they'll keep the shutter open?

Again, sorry if these questions sound stupid...