Medium Format Camera Recommendation?

[caferacer73]

I recently got a Mamiya M645 1000s and 3 lenses (55, 80 & 150) for around $600. Great camera for starting out on medium format.

 

[OldManJim]

So, based on the many suggestions you have received, you have a lot of options. All of the cameras recommended are good, so I recommend you consider the cost of a CLA (clean, lubricate, adjust) service for whatever camera you choose. A number of skilled technicians from companies such as Mamiya, Bronica, Hasselblad, etc. have established small operations to do this and you should check them out. Like any mechanism that has sat unused for a number of years, seals degrade, lubricants dry out, etc.

Good Luck and have fun!

 

[gryffinwings]

Thanks all, there is a lot to consider before I make my ultimate decision, weight, options, format, size, lens available, ease of acquiring, price.

My list seems to be:
Bronica ETRS or ETRSI - These seems to be pretty good value, I like the changeable back, until recently Tamron was still servicing Bronica Medium format cameras, so there should be parts to service if necessary.
Mamiya RB67 - This one has the added benefit of a rotating back, but it's heavier and bigger, older, seems like basic parts are available. It is more expensive, not by much though.
Mamiya M645 1000s - I'm considering this one because the 1/1000th of a sec shutter speed makes me think it would be a little more versatile. But no changeable back, which kind of sucks, but maybe better planning on film use would be necessary to use it.

So, based on the many suggestions you have received, you have a lot of options. All of the cameras recommended are good, so I recommend you consider the cost of a CLA (clean, lubricate, adjust) service for whatever camera you choose. A number of skilled technicians from companies such as Mamiya, Bronica, Hasselblad, etc. have established small operations to do this and you should check them out. Like any mechanism that has sat unused for a number of years, seals degrade, lubricants dry out, etc.

Good Luck and have fun!

Thanks for this advise, I will ask around for some opinions at my local shops.

 

[cgw]

I'd try to find the newest Bronica ETRSi kit available in the cleanest shape possible. These were often worked to near death by wedding shooters. A fair index of mileage is wear, especially around the two holes at the top of the body's back surface where the film back attached. Lots of scratches and paint wear around that area is the telltale of heavy use. Stay away from backs with 220 inserts--all but useless with 220 film(double 120 length)which is virtually dead. Try for a meter-less prism finder. Budget for a decent handheld incident light meter for whatever brand you choose. Metered finders for all these cameras were not wildly accurate. Waist level finders on 645 make shooting vertical pretty much impossible.

I'd avoid the now-ancient Mamiya 645 1000s. Service headaches and no film backs. Look into the newer Mamiya 645 Super/Pro/Pro TL.

I love the big Mamiya RB67 Pro S. It's not petite but some tend to over-emphasize its weight and heft. Good lenses with common focal lengths usually available in decent shape at fair prices. The system sold well for years, so you should have some choice.

Before you make the leap, do check-out brand-specific repair/service options as close to home as possible. That's why I stress getting the newest/best condition MF gear you can afford. Skip TLRs, old folders, and relics generally. The old "just get a CLA" advice is pretty much meaningless unless you can find brand repair specialists capable of reviving oldies.

 

[gryffinwings]

I'd try to find the newest Bronica ETRSi kit available in the cleanest shape possible. These were often worked to near death by wedding shooters. A fair index of mileage is wear, especially around the two holes at the top of the body's back surface where the film back attached. Lots of scratches and paint wear around that area is the telltale of heavy use. Stay away from backs with 220 inserts--all but useless with 220 film(double 120 length)which is virtually dead. Try for a meter-less prism finder. Budget for a decent handheld incident light meter for whatever brand you choose. Metered finders for all these cameras were not wildly accurate. Waist level finders on 645 make shooting vertical pretty much impossible.

I'd avoid the now-ancient Mamiya 645 1000s. Service headaches and no film backs. Look into the newer Mamiya 645 Super/Pro/Pro TL.

I love the big Mamiya RB67 Pro S. It's not petite but some tend to over-emphasize its weight and heft. Good lenses with common focal lengths usually available in decent shape at fair prices. The system sold well for years, so you should have some choice.

Before you make the leap, do check-out brand-specific repair/service options as close to home as possible. That's why I stress getting the newest/best condition MF gear you can afford. Skip TLRs, old folders, and relics generally. The old "just get a CLA" advice is pretty much meaningless unless you can find brand repair specialists capable of reviving oldies.

So I actually went out today like what was suggested to try out and look at the cameras in question and also ask the local repair shop that most go to.

My thoughts are that the RB67 while a nice camera is a little too large and hefty for my intended uses, I held it today and found I do not like the weight.

I've seen both the Bronica ETRS and Mamiya 645 1000s in good shape, very clean for reasonable prices, around $350, the local repair shop says parts are available for both and both repair cost for both are about the same, so it's basically personal preference at that point from what I can tell.

So now it's the Bronica ETRS and the Mamiya 645 1000s, the Bronica brings changeable backs and the Mamiya brings 1/1000th of a second shutter speed.

Choices... choices....

 

[ac12]

I'd try to find the newest Bronica ETRSi kit available in the cleanest shape possible. These were often worked to near death by wedding shooters. A fair index of mileage is wear, especially around the two holes at the top of the body's back surface where the film back attached. Lots of scratches and paint wear around that area is the telltale of heavy use. Stay away from backs with 220 inserts--all but useless with 220 film(double 120 length)which is virtually dead. Try for a meter-less prism finder. Budget for a decent handheld incident light meter for whatever brand you choose. Metered finders for all these cameras were not wildly accurate. Waist level finders on 645 make shooting vertical pretty much impossible.

I'd avoid the now-ancient Mamiya 645 1000s. Service headaches and no film backs. Look into the newer Mamiya 645 Super/Pro/Pro TL.

I love the big Mamiya RB67 Pro S. It's not petite but some tend to over-emphasize its weight and heft. Good lenses with common focal lengths usually available in decent shape at fair prices. The system sold well for years, so you should have some choice.

Before you make the leap, do check-out brand-specific repair/service options as close to home as possible. That's why I stress getting the newest/best condition MF gear you can afford. Skip TLRs, old folders, and relics generally. The old "just get a CLA" advice is pretty much meaningless unless you can find brand repair specialists capable of reviving oldies.

So I actually went out today like what was suggested to try out and look at the cameras in question and also ask the local repair shop that most go to.

My thoughts are that the RB67 while a nice camera is a little too large and hefty for my intended uses, I held it today and found I do not like the weight.

I've seen both the Bronica ETRS and Mamiya 645 1000s in good shape, very clean for reasonable prices, around $350, the local repair shop says parts are available for both and both repair cost for both are about the same, so it's basically personal preference at that point from what I can tell.

So now it's the Bronica ETRS and the Mamiya 645 1000s, the Bronica brings changeable backs and the Mamiya brings 1/1000th of a second shutter speed.

Choices... choices....

Good job.

I would go for the Bronica, for the interchangeable backs. That way you can switch between ISO-100 film and ISO-400 film easily, by just changing the backs. Or shoot B&W in one back and color in the 2nd back.
With the Mamiya, you would need a 2nd camera for the 2nd film type.
A 2nd back is cheaper than a 2nd camera. But with the 2nd camera, you do have a backup/spare camera.

I only had 2 instances where I needed to have 1/1000 sec shutter speed.

• When I was shooting Tri-X (ASA/ISO 400) in very bright sun, where I was at 1/1000 sec at f/16, maxing out both the shutter speed and aperture of my camera. If I could have easily switched to Plus-X (ASA/ISO 125), I would not have to max out my camera, and would not need 1/1000 sec. Today, my preferred film is a medium speed film, about ISO 100, specifically to avoid maxing out the camera, and to give me room to adjust my exposure.

• When shooting fast sports, and want to capture the fast action.

 

[gryffinwings]

I'd try to find the newest Bronica ETRSi kit available in the cleanest shape possible. These were often worked to near death by wedding shooters. A fair index of mileage is wear, especially around the two holes at the top of the body's back surface where the film back attached. Lots of scratches and paint wear around that area is the telltale of heavy use. Stay away from backs with 220 inserts--all but useless with 220 film(double 120 length)which is virtually dead. Try for a meter-less prism finder. Budget for a decent handheld incident light meter for whatever brand you choose. Metered finders for all these cameras were not wildly accurate. Waist level finders on 645 make shooting vertical pretty much impossible.

I'd avoid the now-ancient Mamiya 645 1000s. Service headaches and no film backs. Look into the newer Mamiya 645 Super/Pro/Pro TL.

I love the big Mamiya RB67 Pro S. It's not petite but some tend to over-emphasize its weight and heft. Good lenses with common focal lengths usually available in decent shape at fair prices. The system sold well for years, so you should have some choice.

Before you make the leap, do check-out brand-specific repair/service options as close to home as possible. That's why I stress getting the newest/best condition MF gear you can afford. Skip TLRs, old folders, and relics generally. The old "just get a CLA" advice is pretty much meaningless unless you can find brand repair specialists capable of reviving oldies.

So I actually went out today like what was suggested to try out and look at the cameras in question and also ask the local repair shop that most go to.

My thoughts are that the RB67 while a nice camera is a little too large and hefty for my intended uses, I held it today and found I do not like the weight.

I've seen both the Bronica ETRS and Mamiya 645 1000s in good shape, very clean for reasonable prices, around $350, the local repair shop says parts are available for both and both repair cost for both are about the same, so it's basically personal preference at that point from what I can tell.

So now it's the Bronica ETRS and the Mamiya 645 1000s, the Bronica brings changeable backs and the Mamiya brings 1/1000th of a second shutter speed.

Choices... choices....

Good job.

I would go for the Bronica, for the interchangeable backs. That way you can switch between ISO-100 film and ISO-400 film easily, by just changing the backs. Or shoot B&W in one back and color in the 2nd back.
With the Mamiya, you would need a 2nd camera for the 2nd film type.
A 2nd back is cheaper than a 2nd camera. But with the 2nd camera, you do have a backup/spare camera.

I only had 2 instances where I needed to have 1/1000 sec shutter speed.

• When I was shooting Tri-X (ASA/ISO 400) in very bright sun, where I was at 1/1000 sec at f/16, maxing out both the shutter speed and aperture of my camera. If I could have easily switched to Plus-X (ASA/ISO 125), I would not have to max out my camera, and would not need 1/1000 sec. Today, my preferred film is a medium speed film, about ISO 100, specifically to avoid maxing out the camera, and to give me room to adjust my exposure.

• When shooting fast sports, and want to capture the fast action.

A thought just came to mind, you could use a neutral density filter to reduce shutter speeds if you are using to fast of a film...

 

[ac12]

I'd try to find the newest Bronica ETRSi kit available in the cleanest shape possible. These were often worked to near death by wedding shooters. A fair index of mileage is wear, especially around the two holes at the top of the body's back surface where the film back attached. Lots of scratches and paint wear around that area is the telltale of heavy use. Stay away from backs with 220 inserts--all but useless with 220 film(double 120 length)which is virtually dead. Try for a meter-less prism finder. Budget for a decent handheld incident light meter for whatever brand you choose. Metered finders for all these cameras were not wildly accurate. Waist level finders on 645 make shooting vertical pretty much impossible.

I'd avoid the now-ancient Mamiya 645 1000s. Service headaches and no film backs. Look into the newer Mamiya 645 Super/Pro/Pro TL.

I love the big Mamiya RB67 Pro S. It's not petite but some tend to over-emphasize its weight and heft. Good lenses with common focal lengths usually available in decent shape at fair prices. The system sold well for years, so you should have some choice.

Before you make the leap, do check-out brand-specific repair/service options as close to home as possible. That's why I stress getting the newest/best condition MF gear you can afford. Skip TLRs, old folders, and relics generally. The old "just get a CLA" advice is pretty much meaningless unless you can find brand repair specialists capable of reviving oldies.

So I actually went out today like what was suggested to try out and look at the cameras in question and also ask the local repair shop that most go to.

My thoughts are that the RB67 while a nice camera is a little too large and hefty for my intended uses, I held it today and found I do not like the weight.

I've seen both the Bronica ETRS and Mamiya 645 1000s in good shape, very clean for reasonable prices, around $350, the local repair shop says parts are available for both and both repair cost for both are about the same, so it's basically personal preference at that point from what I can tell.

So now it's the Bronica ETRS and the Mamiya 645 1000s, the Bronica brings changeable backs and the Mamiya brings 1/1000th of a second shutter speed.

Choices... choices....

Good job.

I would go for the Bronica, for the interchangeable backs. That way you can switch between ISO-100 film and ISO-400 film easily, by just changing the backs. Or shoot B&W in one back and color in the 2nd back.
With the Mamiya, you would need a 2nd camera for the 2nd film type.
A 2nd back is cheaper than a 2nd camera. But with the 2nd camera, you do have a backup/spare camera.

I only had 2 instances where I needed to have 1/1000 sec shutter speed.

• When I was shooting Tri-X (ASA/ISO 400) in very bright sun, where I was at 1/1000 sec at f/16, maxing out both the shutter speed and aperture of my camera. If I could have easily switched to Plus-X (ASA/ISO 125), I would not have to max out my camera, and would not need 1/1000 sec. Today, my preferred film is a medium speed film, about ISO 100, specifically to avoid maxing out the camera, and to give me room to adjust my exposure.

• When shooting fast sports, and want to capture the fast action.

A thought just came to mind, you could use a neutral density filter to reduce shutter speeds if you are using to fast of a film...

Yes indeed you could.
But it would be a more difficult to focus, and a hassle to use. When I focus, I want the brightest possible screen, to make it easier for my old eyes to focus accurately. And I don't want to have to remove the ND filter each time I focus the lens, as that would be a PiA. The other problem is if the camera has a split image rangefinder. If it gets too dim, the split image blacks out. Though 2 stops on a sunny day probably won't black out the split image prisms.

On the other hand, if it was a limited shoot, not a real problem.
Example, if I want to shoot water so I have streaky water, I might use a 10 stop ND filter. Since these are deliberate shots on a tripod, swapping out the filter for each new image, while still a PiA, it is acceptable. The setup alone for just one of the shots could be many minutes.

 

[caferacer73]

Reading all the good things about the Bronica is making me want one now...

I'm not regretting getting the Mamiya M645, just getting caught up in wanting another good MF camera.

 

[Zaphod2319]

I recently bought a Bronica ETSRI. I ordered it from Roberts Camera in Indianapolis. I went with this camera because of the reputation of Roberts Camera and because it had been rebuilt. Also came with a warranty. Buying a nearly 40 year old camera came with some sense of relief that a professional staff had gone through checking every aspect of its operation and lubricated where needed. Every aspect of the camera is tight. I paid close to $300 when I replaced the 220 back with a 120, which they accommodated with ease. I would buy from a camera dealer that has already serviced the camera.

I love the Bronica. I have used it on the tripod most of the time but it is light enough to comfortably be hand held. The shutter release cable is universal, I bought a new cable on eBay for $14. I had a couple pictures effected because I moved the camera slightly pressing the shutter button on the front.

Good luck with your purchase and enjoy.

 

[IanG]

Reading all the good things about the Bronica is making me want one now...

I'm not regretting getting the Mamiya M645, just getting caught up in wanting another good MF camera.

After my Mamiya C33 and C3 and lenses were stolen in the early 1980's I replaced them with a Mamiya 645 and 645 1000S, wonderful cameras. I looked at RB67's but I'd rather (and do) shoot LF than those monsters.

Make the most of what you've got other cameras won't make better images

Ian

 

[gryffinwings]

Lots of good advise here and much to contemplate, so many wonderful options and not to mention I'm curious about large format cameras that I posted a separate thread on it asking about it. So many choices, so many wonderful choices.

 

[ac12]

Control your GAS, or you will go broke.
I suggest you plan and stagger; example 35mm this year/2018, MF next year/2019, LF the year after 2020.
Or a body and ONE lens for 35mm and MF in 2018/2019, a 2nd lens in 2019/2020. Then LF in 2020.

Warning: LF is a whole different world. You likely can't use your current tripod, and have to upgrade to a heavier tripod. Dealing with film holders with only 2 shots per holder is very different than roll film. And learning to focus under a dark cloth can be difficult. And you need to determine how you will get your LF film processed (send it out and where, or DiY).

 

[gryffinwings]

Control your GAS, or you will go broke.
I suggest you plan and stagger; example 35mm this year/2018, MF next year/2019, LF the year after 2020.
Or a body and ONE lens for 35mm and MF in 2018/2019, a 2nd lens in 2019/2020. Then LF in 2020.

Warning: LF is a whole different world. You likely can't use your current tripod, and have to upgrade to a heavier tripod. Dealing with film holders with only 2 shots per holder is very different than roll film. And learning to focus under a dark cloth can be difficult. And you need to determine how you will get your LF film processed (send it out and where, or DiY).

So far, my GAS is under control, my thinking about it for lengths of time helps me figure out what I would really like, also asking questions about "possible" gear acquisitions helps me make a decision on what to get, that way I am not getting crazy amounts of gear that I may not use and end up being a hoarder.

I am aware of the tripod issues, it's something I am thinking about, likely will have to get a used tripod. Also focusing under a dark cloth isn't completely necessary from the videos I've been watching. :/

Thank you for the advice.