Microphones

[VidThreeNorth]

I think it would be a good idea to accumulate microphone information in one topic, so here it is:

[2019-12-09 09:10 Added following 3 paragraphs:]
I am trying to put this information into some kind of order. As I have written before, there are objective measures which should give fairly consistent results from one tester to another, and there are subjective issues where differences boil down to the tester's preferences and particular situations. Because of this, if you check a broad range of reviews you will find that they do not always agree. So I have deliberately tried to link a variety of reviewers

I recommend starting with Max Yuryev's coverage of the Rode mono shotgun mics (see message #2 below). He covers most of the features and issues well and shows how to test them. He is also one of the only reviewers that pointed out that mounting the mics on the cameras did not always work well when using an EVF.

Unfortunately, he messed up his screen label at a few points in the video, but that should not cause you too much trouble. I do recommend that you have a piece of paper ready and pause the video and make notes.
[End of 2019-12-09 additions]

[2019-12-12 10:24 added rest of introduction]
After Max Yuryev's Rode review, then come back and watch Gerald Undone's look at two shotgun mics for studio use. This will give you a chance to look at the question of what is "good" sound in his particular situation?

The third video to watch is DSLR Videoshooter's video which goes into why he is generally not using Rode so much. It will fill in some of the currently available alternative products.

The forth video, which is Curtis Judd's look at two Azden microphones will overlap a bit of what Caleb Pike said about the Azden SMX-15 and start crossing over to two channel stereo mics with the Azden SMX-30

Finally, the fifth video looks at three stereo mics, giving an idea of what issues there are and three good products in that field. All these clips together give a fairly good introduction into the field of camera mounted microphones, and good starting points for research.
[End of 2019-12-12 additions]

[2019-12-09 09:15 Rewrite:]
I posted this before. It is Gerald Undone testing two microphones in his studio. It shows practical differences, but emphasizes that the results are fairly specific to this situation. Microphone analysis is both objective (self-noise, output level) and subjective (which "sounds better"?). Compared to Max Yuryev, who preferred a "flatter" response with less bass and a "crisper" more treble sound, Gerald Undone, at least in this case seems to like the more mid and bass response of the Diety. I would keep the other mic for the guitar. I do not like a "boom-y" mic for instruments.
[End of re-write]

"Should I Switch to This Microphone? // Deity S-Mic 2S",
- posted by "Gerald Undone" on Oct 1, 2019, [length 8:05]
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Microphones compared:
Deity S-Mic 2S
Samson C02


Recent alternatives compared to equivalent Rode:

"Saying Goodbye to Rode?",
- posted by "DSLR Video Shooter" on Mar 12, 2019, [length 12:36]
""
[2019-12-09 13:14 added following:]
Mics Discussed (not much testing):
On Camera Mics:
Rode VideoMic Pro
Rode VideoMicro
Azden SMX-15
Diety D3 Pro
Movo VXR10

Studio Mics
Rode NTG2
Rode NTG4 (XLR)
Rode NTG4 Plus (USB rechargeable battery built-in)
Diety S Mic 2

Wireless
RodeLink
Sennheiser XSW Wireless System
Deity Connect Wireless System

Other "good" Rode Mics mentioned:
Rode NTG3
Rode NT5
Rode Lav

 

[VidThreeNorth]

The Rode mics are currently the standard for this field, so no matter what mic you use, it is good to know how it compares to a Rode because when you are trying to find out about another mic, then you'll probably hear it compared to a Rode. So even if you don't use a Rode yourself, it is useful to know about them. Here is a look at the full range of Rode mics with some descriptions:

"Every Rode Shotgun Video Mic Compared! $59 - $299",
posted Nov 24, 2017 by "Max Yuryev", [length 23:46]
""
Microphones compared:
Rode VideoMicro with Rycote Lyre Shock Mount
Rode VideoMic GO
Rode VideoMic with Rycote Lyre Suspension System
Rode VMPR VideoMic Pro R with Rycote Lyre Shockmount
Rode VideoMic Pro Plus with Rycote Lyre Shockmount
[2020-03-30 21:18 spelling "Rycote"]

Takstar SGC-598 Interview Microphone (on the boom, not fully tested)

 

[VidThreeNorth]

Curtis Judd has tested just about every mic around, so this link is the "heart" of any research into mics. Also, every mic tested so far has been mono. This test crosses into stereo mics:

"Azden SMX 15 and 30 Shotgun Microphones Review",
- posted Mar 6, 2016 by "Curtis Judd", [length 6:38]
""
Microphones compared:
Azden SMX 15
Azden SMX 30

 

[VidThreeNorth]

Let me start by saying that I have great respect for Videomaker and in general they are a really good source of information. They work hard at producing good material and have done so for many years. I consider them a "trusted source" of information. I am writing this at the top because in this case I don't think they did a very good job, which is unfortunate. In fact, I think they should get together the current equivalent microphones, and with better preparation, do it over again. I will say that the best test for this set of microphones would be a "practice session" of an acoustic music group. I would suggest a "chamber music group" or maybe a choir.

This is mainly a "look at" the Sennheiser MKE 440 stereo microphone. It was intended to be a "comparison / test", but it was not fully realized. For example, during the directionality test, the Azden mic was only used as a MONO mic, presumably as a reference. It was not tested in its STEREO mode. I suppose they felt that the Rode mic was close enough in its results to represent both itself and the Azden. I disagree. The Azden should have been tested in both MONO and STEREO modes. Also, the very first test of the "street" noise is almost completely useless. It should not have been included at all. The problem with the "street noise" is that the sounds cannot be associated with what is being show in the images. The picture portion might as well have been replaced by a blank screen. At that point, "street noise" is just "noise". There is no point to the test at all.

"Sennheiser MKE440 Hands-on Review - Head to head with RODE and Azden",
posted Dec 29, 2016, by"Videomaker", [length 11:05]
""
Microphones Compared:
Sennheiser MKE 440
Azden SMX-30
Rode Stereo VideoMic Pro

 

[VidThreeNorth]

Shure SM57 and SM58
also the SM7b

I wrote before that the Rode mics were the standard for video recording and that if you want to use a camera mounted microphone you need to know about Rodes because that is the mic that others will be compared to. I was looking into mics again recently, and I ran across this clip which has nothing to do with what I was looking for, but it occurred to me that it was similarly important.

The Shure SM57 and SM58 are the classic standard mics for live performance and studio recording. They are old. I have not researched how old, but I know that back in the 1960's, when the Beach Boys and the Beatles were recording, these mics were already the established standards. So we are looking at a history of at least 50 years. And to this day, if you walk into any of the successful sound studios, no matter what the favorite "house brand" mics are, they will have some SM57's and SM58's around if you want to use one. Likewise, I expect that serious Pro singers who use mics will know these mics very well. Again, they might prefer something else, but they will know how they sound and how to work with these mics. And again, when you talk to people in those businesses about mics, these are the mics that they will compare other mics to.
[2020-04-18 00:05 Correction: over 50 years, not 60 years]


"Shure SM57 vs SM58 vs SM7b Comparison (Versus Series)",
posted Jun 8, 2018 by "Podcastage", [length 7:21]
""

 

[VidThreeNorth]

Shure Lenshopper VP83F

I bought this in the Spring and ran through the manual a bit, and then put it aside, assuming that I would be using it occasionally throughout the year. But then the "lock-downs" occurred and the events that I expected to recorded were mostly cancelled and so it sat.

Lately, about 6 months since I looked at it, some local musicians got together and put on a small outdoor show. I don't know how much planning there was, but I had not heard about it. When I found out about it, I grabbed my Lumix G85 and was heading for the door, and then changed my mind. Since this was a live music situation, I decided to try the Lenshopper. Then, having made that choice, I decided to use the Yi-M1 instead of the G85. I also grabbed a set of headphones and my usual Optex TM50 monopod, and that was all.

Results:

The results were not good. Roughly half a year between my last look at this mic, and this "grab it and go" situation was too much. I could not even remember which hole to plug the headphones into [NOTE: There markings on the base, but you have to know that they are there or you will probably not find them]. I could not remember how to adjust the volume. I could not remember how to stop a recording (hitting the "record" button does not stop the recording, it "pauses" the recording). Making the situation worse, I needed to raise the camera above my eye-level which put the back of the Lenshopper, and all the controls and the display, out of sight.

Issues:

This is an old device, and as far as I can tell, it has not had any real work for "a long time". I think that they probably debugged it when it first came out, and that was probably all that happened. It probably works exactly the way the original designer(s) intended, and I doubt if any real development has been considered.

The problems are all interfacing. The first problem is turning the amp on and off. The buttons are difficult to press. They take a lot of pressure and must be held, and in some cases a button might need to be held for two seconds. What makes this even more difficult though, is the fact that the mic is on a "shock mount", so when you try to press it, the whole mic just moves away from your finger. To actuate the power switch you have to grab hold of the mic with one hand and press the button with your other hand. This might not sound hard, but when you have the mic mounted on a camera, it becomes more awkward than you might expect. The mic can be bought without the recorder, so maybe Shure does not see a reason to put more work into its development.

As I noted, there are markings to show which of two jacks is for the camera and which is for the headphones. The problem is that the diagrams are on the top of the mount and sitting hidden under the body of the mic. I don't remember ever seeing them before I started to write this report. The reason I found them was that I was going to recommend adding such markings and I was looking for a good place to put them. I think that a better idea would be to put stickers near the bottom of the body of the mic rather than on the top of the base.

Now, about that "pause" control: I think that if a poll were taken it would probably favour a change.

How does the Record/Stop/Pause/Continue control work?

To "start" a recording you have to press and briefly hold the red button on the right. To "stop" a recording you have to press the same button and hold it for 2 seconds. To "pause" the recording, press the same button briefly and release it. During a pause, the record light flashes. To "Continue" a recording after a pause, another brief press is used.

A "continue" after a "pause" adds the next recording to the same file. A "stop" closes a file and a "start" begins a new file, with a new file name.

Why have a "pause" control at all?

I doubt if there has even been a formal study for having a "Pause" control for sound recording. They existed on analog audio tape recorders. On the cheapest tape recorders, the drive motor(s) stopped. The recording system power was still running. On more advanced tape recorders, there might be a bit more complexities, like "releasing" a capstan drive. But it would not be as complete a disengagement as "stopping" the recording, which among other things, might release the tape from the "recording head(s)". In general, the point was probably to minimize mechanical wear of parts.


Are there any function advantages and disadvantages today?

For today, we need to consider "free-standing" audio recording and "audio for video use".

The only advantage I can think of for "pause" and "continue" is the case where I "pause" the recording by mistake or accident, and immediately "continue" to minimize the mistake. I don't think that will happen very often.

As far as free-standing audio recording goes, some engineers or producers might actually have a specific reason to keep all the recording in a single file. Personally, I cannot think of any such reason.

For recording audio to be used with video though, there is a very good reason to "stop" a recording and start with a new file. As a matter of organization, it helps to keep related audio clips with their associated video clips. If I try to find a specific start or stop point for a three minute section in a full one hour conglomerate clip, it could be hard. Also, if I store off an unnecessarily large audio file with its associated video files, it can be an unnecessary waste of storage. Granted, compared to video clips, even a large audio clip is small, but waste builds up.

In the case of an "accidental pause" which I described above, if this audio recording is going to be used with a video, then I would have to "re-synch" at that point which could be difficult. In a rush situation, it might not be worth doing at all.

So overall, I believe the advantages of having individual files for my use (with a video) makes it likely the only way that I will want to use it. The 2 second stop control will always get in my way.

What would I change?

I would add an option to disable the "pause/continue" function and have only a "start/stop" function on the button, and without the need to hold the button for 2 seconds.

[2020-1015 19:38
On re-thinking the problem, I think I would prefer to have the "quick press" close the file being written and immediately start a new file. As it currently works, the 2 sec. stop has to be followed by another press which takes about another second, so it takes me at least 3 seconds to close a file and start a new one. Let me make this clear: I DID NOT HAVE THREE SECONDS TO SPARE to start new files while recording this particular event, and situations like this are not that unusual.]

The Clock:

The clock resets if the battery is removed. I would prefer having an internal backup charge (possibly just a capacitor) to give me a few minutes to change the batteries.

[2020-1015 19:43
Actually, I checked again later and the clock resets if the mic is turned off EVEN IF CHARGED BATTERIES ARE LEFT INSTALLED. That means I have to set the DATE/TIME every time I turn the mic off. That is not acceptable these days.]

The Joystick:

Again, the shock-mount makes it hard to use the joystick. And again, the best solution is to hold the mic in one hand use the joystick with your other hand, and again, this is can be difficult if you have the camera on a monopod, which I usually do.

Other Changes:

Lastly, there is the question of whether it might be worth adding another button, or making the display screen larger. Either or both could be welcome. The display is cluttered and hard for me to see. This is especially true when used with a camera because my mind is already stressed trying to do the photography. An extra button would make a better control organization possible. I would make it a selector between 2 or 3 upper level modes.

As It Is:

It appears that the way I am probably going to use this in the future is to record to a single continuous file, which I might break up later -- assuming I find a good piece of editing software.

The sound I got was really good when it was not distorted. I think in the future I will try to practice with it before I use it. That was my original plan, and this opportunity just came up unexpectedly. So for now, I think I will be happy enough with it.

As for whether I will look for something better, there are a couple of possibilities. One is the Zoom F1-SP which has a similar overall cost, and has many advantages (like stereo recording, if a different mic capsule is bought separately and added to it), but looks more complicated and possibly more fragile. The other is the TASCAM DR-10SG, which is also similar in cost, and seems to be functionally more similar to the Shure.

 

[VidThreeNorth]

I recently made a test of my Shure VP83F. I recorded it using the built-in recorder and then included it in a video clip created using Pinnacle Studio 19 (maximum quality 40,000 kbps). I uploaded the result so I could hear it as received during normal playback. If you like Shakespeare, you might not want to hear it. I'm no actor. I read a passage from the play "As You Like It" -- the "seven ages of man" speech.

This recording was made in an normal "untreated" bedroom, which is a bad environment. I was surprised that it turned out quite well. The resulting video is vertically compressed for no reason. I tried a few times, but Pinnacle never got it right. There might be a setting I do not know about, but why would they do that?

2023-08-04 11:04
I don't know what's going on with the Hollywood "Writers Strike", but it just occurred to me that this might be a good time to look into Shakespeare. I had not thought about doing more than this "mic test", but now that I think about it, maybe I should do more, and make an effort to do a better job. We'll see.

"230730 V04 Shure PF83F Mic Test",
posted Sep 30, 2023 by VidThreeNorth, [length 1:29]
""