Mobile connectivity for camera

[JNordstrom]

I am working on a startup and we are currently developing a unit that will enable cameras to be connected to the 4G/LTE and 3G network. The unit is small and, depending on our success, can either be integrated in the camera, into a battery grip or even into a memory card. The uploaded pictures (both JPEG and RAW) or movies transfer directly to a server or a computer. This means you could not only use it in a wireless studio setting, but also on sport events where the pictures can be sent back to the office immediately or on travels for simultaneous back-up etc. The unit will use the regular memory as buffer, and when outside 4G/LTE coverage, the 3G network will be used. Compared to existing solutions (e.g. Nikon WT-4A and Canon WFT-E5A) the unit is much smaller, the transferring rate is much higher and range issues are eliminated.

We would love to get input on how you would use such a product, and what potential issues you see with it. Also, in a few months we are hoping to set up trials with a number of different users at low or no cost. If you would be interested in participating, send me a message.

Thanks for your help!

John Nordstrom

 

[Judobreaker]

Wouldn't sending a 20mb raw file over 3G take a loooong time?
I have a hard time with smaller jpg files on my phone...

 

[cnutco]

Not worth it!

If one would want to do something like that, just buy one of those WiFi cards and move it to your already 3G or 4G phone that you already pay for and send it from it.

 

[metro2]

Is 4G common in the US now? And would HSDPA be a faster back-up mode rather than 3G?

 

[JNordstrom]

Wouldn't sending a 20mb raw file over 3G take a loooong time?
I have a hard time with smaller jpg files on my phone...

This product will definitely work best where there is 4G coverage. 3G is the secondary option and will only be used when being outside 4G coverage, outside cities etc. However, when being in a studio, at a stadium or in a cafe, 4G network will be available.

 

[JNordstrom]

Not worth it!

If one would want to do something like that, just buy one of those WiFi cards and move it to your already 3G or 4G phone that you already pay for and send it from it.

1. That additional step takes time and the simplicity that the WiFi cards are trying to achieve is no longer there...
2. The cards are not compatible with cameras using compact flash.
3. Our product will be able to use an existing data plan from e.g. AT&T or Verizon.

Is 4G common in the US now? And would HSDPA be a faster back-up mode rather than 3G?

4G is currently under development in US. Verizion has launched their 4G network and AT&T will also launch their network during 2011.
HSPDA is faster than 3G but not as fast as 4G.

 

[Light Guru]

Our product will be able to use an existing data plan from e.g. AT&T or Verizon.

A cell phone company is NOT going to let you use 2 different devices on an existing data plan.

For an ATT account you would need to remove the sim card from your phone first and then place it in the device that connects to the camera. For Verizon you won't be able to at all because they don't use removable sim cards.

I don't know about you but I'm NOT going to take my phone out of it's case pull the sim card out thus deactivating my phone just so I can automatically upload pics to the web from my DSLR camera.

The only way I can see you doing this would be if your attachment communicated via an app on an iPhone or android.

EyeFi has already done that you can have images go directly to a iPad or phone as you shoot.

There device creates it's own wifi network that the phone or iPad joins. This unfortunately means that you cannot connect to the web at the same time because the phone or iPad thinks it is connected to a regular wifi network thus it wants to sent all data communication though that.

You would need to have your device communicate with the phone via Bluetooth so so that the phone can still connect to the Internet via the cell tower.

I'm glad I could shine some light on your poorly thought out product.

 

[2WheelPhoto]

even at today's 4G speeds (1 meg up), the large raw pic files may take quite some time.

and the files are huge, fortunately SPRINT still has unlimited data plans, or i'd already be busted!

 

[JNordstrom]

even at today's 4G speeds (1 meg up), the large raw pic files may take quite some time.

and the files are huge, fortunately SPRINT still has unlimited data plans, or i'd already be busted!

Thanks for the input. I agree that if a photographer shoot, let say, 10 photos during a couple of seconds, it will take some time for them to be transferred to a computer/server with the existing 4G network. The speed of Verizon’s 4G network is now 5-12Mbps (0,625-1,5MB/s) and that is probably too slow for professional studio (and other types) photographers. The speed of other LTE network in Europe seems to be much faster. For example, the Swedish operator TeliaSonera are running a 20-80Mbps network (average 36Mbps) LTE Speeds | Unwired Insight. However, I think the existing speed is enough for amateur photographers and I see a potential place in the market for the product.

 

[2WheelPhoto]

even at today's 4G speeds (1 meg up), the large raw pic files may take quite some time.

and the files are huge, fortunately SPRINT still has unlimited data plans, or i'd already be busted!

Thanks for the input. I agree that if a photographer shoot, let say, 10 photos during a couple of seconds, it will take some time for them to be transferred to a computer/server with the existing 4G network. The speed of Verizon’s 4G network is now 5-12Mbps (0,625-1,5MB/s) and that is probably too slow for professional studio (and other types) photographers. The speed of other LTE network in Europe seems to be much faster. For example, the Swedish operator TeliaSonera are running a 20-80Mbps network (average 36Mbps) LTE Speeds | Unwired Insight. However, I think the existing speed is enough for amateur photographers and I see a potential place in the market for the product.

Verizon's LTE network runs at a crawl in the most popular places because of high network congestion. Thats why they announced they are giving the ax to their "unlimited data" plans. I'm looking forward to trying your product.

 

[Light Guru]

What you want to do is jus NOT practical today in the US.

You can stop talking about 4G speeds because 4G coverage is nothing currently, most places will NOT be getting 4G coverage for several years.

On 3G with ATT in my home i get 5 down and 1 up. I did a test uploading a 19.2mb raw photo that I copied onto my iPhone and then uploaded it to dropbox. It took a good 2 minutes for the file to upload. Thats just way to long, especially considering that when I go out shooting i may pop off 100 or more pics.

Do the math that 3.3 hours upload time.

Also consider that cell phone companies are doing away with unlimited data plans. For example the iPhone on ATT they offer a 200mb, 2gb and 4gb option if you add the personal hotspot to your plan, the 2gb option is the standard that most people get.

On a 2gb data plan i would go through the whole thing in one shoot.

And like I said before there is NO WAY that a cell company is going to let 2 devices share one data plan with out some special extra plan. The personal hotspot on the iphone is a good example of this.

I just don't see the thing as practical or cost effective. I doubt you would even sell enough to make up all the development cost.

 

[user3977]

Not worth it!

If one would want to do something like that, just buy one of those WiFi cards and move it to your already 3G or 4G phone that you already pay for and send it from it.

1. That additional step takes time and the simplicity that the WiFi cards are trying to achieve is no longer there...
2. The cards are not compatible with cameras using compact flash.
3. Our product will be able to use an existing data plan from e.g. AT&T or Verizon.

Is 4G common in the US now? And would HSDPA be a faster back-up mode rather than 3G?

4G is currently under development in US. Verizion has launched their 4G network and AT&T will also launch their network during 2011.
HSPDA is faster than 3G but not as fast as 4G.

i have an ebay adaptor and have used my wifes eye-fi card and it worked fine.

 

[penfolderoldo]

It's an interesting idea, tho I think the key to getting right is going to come down to 1. compatability - a lot of photographers own and use more than 1 model, so finding a way of making it interchangeable with multiple models would be a big help, 2. transfer speeds - i work as a press snapper and use the wft-e2a for my 1Ds mark 3, and I can tell you its not the quickest, but on football etc I need all the help I can get!, and last but by no means least 3. PRICE! I'm balking at the thought of paying out nearly £600 for the wft-e5a for my 7D, so how much it costs will determine its potential market.

 

[Garbz]

Thanks for the input. I agree that if a photographer shoot, let say, 10 photos during a couple of seconds, it will take some time for them to be transferred to a computer/server with the existing 4G network. The speed of Verizon’s 4G network is now 5-12Mbps (0,625-1,5MB/s) and that is probably too slow for professional studio (and other types) photographers.

LTE 4G, and HSDPA are NOT (repeat that) NOT synchronous. In the real world you can expect an average of 1-3mbps upload rate if you're in a really good coverage area. The theoretical maximum uplink speed of 75mbps for LTE is about 30% of the theoretical max downlink speed which will never be achieved in practice. WiMAX is theoretically synchronous however tests have shown that currently in practice uplink speeds are between 1/2th and 1/5th of the downlink speeds. For LTE this is 1/4 to 1/10th the speed.

I predict this product will be dead on arrival. In professional scenarios you either have card runners or WiFi transfer back to base. In non-professional scenarios the only time this would likely be important is if there's not enough storage available, and given how dirt cheap 8GB cards are these days, and how very long it would take for even a trivial amount of photos to be uploaded either as RAW or as JPEG I see absolutely zero use for this.

 

[cedricb]

LTE 4G, and HSDPA are NOT (repeat that) NOT synchronous. In the real world you can expect an average of 1-3mbps upload rate if you're in a really good coverage area. The theoretical maximum uplink speed of 75mbps for LTE is about 30% of the theoretical max downlink speed which will never be achieved in practice. WiMAX is theoretically synchronous however tests have shown that currently in practice uplink speeds are between 1/2th and 1/5th of the downlink speeds. For LTE this is 1/4 to 1/10th the speed.

I predict this product will be dead on arrival. In professional scenarios you either have card runners or WiFi transfer back to base. In non-professional scenarios the only time this would likely be important is if there's not enough storage available, and given how dirt cheap 8GB cards are these days, and how very long it would take for even a trivial amount of photos to be uploaded either as RAW or as JPEG I see absolutely zero use for this.

You're right! I use to work for a governmental agency here in Canada and we tested WiMax and LTE while static and on the move (60 km/h) and there are so many factors that come into play that you will be lucky if you get 10% of the advertised speed!

If I needed something like that, I'd get those 4G Wi-Fi routers and use one of the those Wi-Fi cards.