National Geographic

[abraxas]

I have some freinds that can be very opinionated, but I got to say, I think I'm a good enough friend not to put up their opinions to be shredded behind their back. The only thing I've gotten out of this thread is a better formed ignore list. ****ing kids.

 

[blash]

Really? So if i have never shot film, i am not classified as a "real" photographer? A bit off topic here but this is not a true statement by any means.

What I mean by it is that with digital, people just snap off pictures, put them on their computer, done. Besides the fact that film prevents you from making 95% of the shots you bring home complete and utter crap (because the pictures aren't free anymore), film teaches you a new appreciation for photography in the post-process. In order to really understand what "burning" and "dodging" and all those other tools are in Photoshop you really have to have gone and done them in a darkroom at some point or another. Film also teaches you such things as colored filters on B&W prints and how they affect it, instead of going into Photoshop and just playing with the curves wheeeeeee.

In other words, film forces you to get better shots in the field (because a film mentality towards shooting can and will transfer to digital) and teaches you more about post-processing than just going straight to digital does.

You'd understand if you'd ever shot and hand-processed film.

 

[Overread]

I think the film mentality when shooting is a very valid argument and I have often said to newer photographers (if they don't have a film camera) to go out and try only taking 36 shots - to really limit themselves as a film camera would have been like.
Its not really the same as shooting film - one would hope that along with checking exposure and composition before pressing the shutter - that they check the histogram after the event- and then use that info to maybe make a better second exposure (if they have the time).

For editing I think it only teaches appreciation for the wonder that photoshop is - I don't think it can broaden your horizons as much - but it probably helps people come to terms which was is possible to edit in film - but its not really going to help them develop their digital editing process that much (since so many things will be different or missing in film editing)

 

[blash]

I don't see film editing as having missing something but digital editing as having added something. Better to understand the original tools so that you can understand how to use the facsimiles, and then if you want to add something later that can only be done via digital then OK.

I'm not saying digital is completely inferior to film - no way could I do this with film: Fisheye-Hemi

 

[tsaraleksi]

Blash, while there is a lot of truth to what you are saying, I am not sure I agree that film transmits quite as much knowledge as you are saying. I know that when I started photography, I tended to just 'zero' the needle in the circle and shoot, and then correct out the results in the darkroom. You should have seen my contact sheets! Shooting digital gave me a much better conception of 'correct' exposure and the like, which helped in the darkroom. So I think it goes both ways, but I do strenuously agree that having worked with film is a big boon to photographers.

 

[KmH]

......Photography is one of the few fields where a portfolio outshines a degree everyday of the week. Many of the top photographers in the world right now don't even have degrees in photography.

So true. There aren't that many jobs you can show the quality of your work before you're hired.

It would be nice if life was that cut and dried. Clue......It's not.

If your's and the other guy's portfolio are about the same, but he has a degree, I hire him if I need the entire skill set. I hire you if i can cover the skill set another way, because I won't have to pay you as much since you don't have a degree.

 

[Overread]

yah degrees are not essentail - but they do and will open doors if used right.
Also they can give you growing time if your new and also give you some good contacts in the right places

 

[Moon Baby]

@ OP, punch your friend in the junk and take a picture of his curled up body with your Canon. "It wouldn't have looked better on a Nikon."

There are better things to argue about...Like peeing standing up or sitting down.

 

[j-digg]

Also ( Im not a fanboy of Canon or anything even though I own one ) but as I recall.. I've only seen Canon advertisements in NG the past few times Ive looked in them.. Haha, just a funny little observation you could bring up to your buddy.

 

[g2k556]

i haven't shot film before. but i know when i go out and shoot i always try to apply all the knowledge i've gain to get the best shots. then back on my computer i examine them and see what I could have done better. i think my photography has improved greatly since I've gotten my camera around 8 months ago. when i started shooting basketball games, i'd say 80% of my shots where out of focus. by the end of the season I'd improved to having only say 25% out of focus, and I would take far less shots. still a high percentage, but a great improvement. so i think it is possible to improve the same way you would with film, but it just takes more self discipline to achieve it.

 

[Joves]

i haven't shot film before. but i know when i go out and shoot i always try to apply all the knowledge i've gain to get the best shots. then back on my computer i examine them and see what I could have done better. i think my photography has improved greatly since I've gotten my camera around 8 months ago. when i started shooting basketball games, i'd say 80% of my shots where out of focus. by the end of the season I'd improved to having only say 25% out of focus, and I would take far less shots. still a high percentage, but a great improvement. so i think it is possible to improve the same way you would with film, but it just takes more self discipline to achieve it.

Great thing about digital is the cameras now keep the notes for you. In the old days I used to log all of my shots so, I knew what I did and, what I shouldnt do again. I dont think I will ever go back to film.

 

[blash]

but i know when i go out and shoot i always try to apply all the knowledge i've gain to get the best shots. then back on my computer i examine them and see what I could have done better.

Well I'm not going to deny that digital is very much a boon to people starting out - not having to log (since you don't even know what to log), getting feedback on the spot - these are all important. But once you understand exposure then you need to move on to film or else your "education" won't be complete.

 

[g2k556]

yea, i plan on doing film in the future for sure. once i get into college for photography i'm sure I'll do film there.

 

[Seefutlung]

Well I'm not going to deny that digital is very much a boon to people starting out - not having to log (since you don't even know what to log), getting feedback on the spot - these are all important. But once you understand exposure then you need to move on to film or else your "education" won't be complete.

mmmhh ... I don't buy that ... photography is communications ... one can learn what is required/important/necessary/et al purely with digital in order to communicate effectively.

One acquires photographic skills and experience through shooting and processing ... then doing it all again and again. It doesn't matter if you shoot film or digital ... doesn't matter if you process in a darkroom or a computer. What does matter is that the photographer understands the elements that comprises/creates an exceptional image and the knowledge of how to adjust the camera and process the image to attain the exceptional photograph.

Gary

 

[Overread]

ones education will only be incomplete if ones intention is to learn all about photography in both digital and film. Otherwise there are only certain areas where film has an edge over digital - large and medium format film is a lot cheaper (I belive) than current digital setups and film still have a wider dynamic range than digital (landscapes etc...).

So if your in a specialist interest area film can still have good bonuses over the digital at this point in time - though I suspect that it won't be long before digital is beating film in all respects - not only because the digital is advancing so quickly, but also because film development is just not moving forward with the same vigour - its just not as profitable as digital.