Need help picking D90 or T2i Please read before assume.

[scorpion_tyr]

Buy the Canon.

 

[Derrel]

On that basis you get the D90.

The D90 spanks the T2i on color depth, dynamic range, low-light ISO, fps rate, metering system, and focusing system. >SNIP>[

Just to clarify, as written on DXO Mark's own site:

1. DxOMark Sensor measures only the RAW image quality of a digital camera; therefore, DxOMark Sensor is NOT an evaluation of overall camera image quality or performance.
2. DxOMark Sensor is a logarithmic scale in which a 5-point increase corresponds to a sensitivity gain of 1/3 of a stop.

So the differences are actually bearly noticeable to the naked eye, and virtually non-existant in prints. It doesn't take into account in-camera processing vs post processing either. And "spanks" is quite a generous term considering number 2 above. >SNIP

Well cfconfusion, here are a few of the DXO Sensor rankings: Camera rankings

Nikon D90 #17,Nikon D5000 #18, Pentax K-X #19, Canon EOS 7D #32, Canon EOS T2i #33

So, overall, the D90 has the 17th-best performance out of 102 cameras tested. The EOS T2i has the 33rd best ranking of 102 cameras.

Maybe that's why KmH said that the D90 "spanks" the T2i... its ranking is almost doubly better...

 

[cfusionpm]

Well cfconfusion, here are a few of the DXO Sensor rankings: Camera rankings

Nikon D90 #17,Nikon D5000 #18, Pentax K-X #19, Canon EOS 7D #32, Canon EOS T2i #33

So, overall, the D90 has the 17th-best performance out of 102 cameras tested. The EOS T2i has the 33rd best ranking of 102 cameras.

Maybe that's why KmH said that the D90 "spanks" the T2i... its ranking is almost doubly better...

This is the same site that ranks the sensors of the Nikon D3, D3s, D3X, D700, Canon 1Ds mkIII, 5DmkII, and Sony Alpha 850 and 900 as "better" than the 39MP or 50MP Hassleblad H3DII. You could find any arbitrary set of numbers to rank things by.

 

[Derrel]

Yup...and the three cameras I listed as #17,#18,#19 ALL share the SAME Sony-made sensor,and the difference in image quality scores is due to the electronics and image processing and demosaicing routines used in those three cameras.

And yes, the 39 and 50 MP Hasselblad H3DII use old-technology CCD sensors and look like crap at elevated ISO settings...those are old-school CCD technology sensors that are what now? Five years old?

Funny, it took you about five minutes to reply to my post. The fact of the matter is the Sony sensor in those three cameras achieves a tested score about two times better than the smaller-area, smaller-pixeled sensor Canon uses in the 7D and T2i.

Sometimes, bigger is better. The Sony sensor in the D90 and D500 and the Pentax K-X is larger in area than the Canon sensor.

The CCD sensors Hasselblad bought and installed in their 39 and 50 megapixel backs have a native range of ISO 50 to ISO 400, and have **abysmally poor** low-light ISO sensitivity,with scores roughly half as good as the Sony CMOS sensor used in the two Nikons and Pentax K-X.

Arguing the scores is basically pointless with a Canon user who continually tries to influence people to doubt the DXO Mark site's veracity. Would you care to point us to your own data set for 102 tested cameras to further support your contentions?

 

[WowIshDanny]

To answer Vinny. College classes start in the summer and In my opinion I think the d90 will only get replaced if Canon puts up a worthy match or something a little bit better beside its not just about the camera its about the marketing isn't it?



Also I am still looking at these to cameras i recently tested out both of the cameras and I like how both of them feel. I talked to the rep and she tried to basically get me to buy the newest thing which is the t2i and said the d90 is trash against it. Obviously I didn't believe a word that came out of her mouth. Also i noticed the 50d was 50 dollars more then d90. I have read numerous forums and it says the 50d is better. But anyways what I liked about the t2i was the HD capability but on the other hand the d90 gave me more options to work with. But I am still stuck :meh:

 

[cfusionpm]

Yup...and the three cameras I listed as #17,#18,#19 ALL share the SAME Sony-made sensor,and the difference in image quality scores is due to the electronics and image processing and demosaicing routines used in those three cameras.

And somehow the 600$ D5000 scores higher than the $1700 D300s, despite sharing a similar sensor (with the D300s having 14 bits per pixel and the D5000/D90 with 12). And despite being a year newer, it's behind the much-cheaper D90 by nearly 3 points! Whats up with that?

Funny, it took you about five minutes to reply to my post.

Yeah, you caught me between rounds on Modern Warfare 2. Kids these days and their dern videogames.

The fact of the matter is the Sony sensor in those three cameras achieves a tested score about two times better than the smaller-area, smaller-pixeled sensor Canon uses in the 7D and T2i.

How do you get two times? 68 isn't half of 72, is it? Unless you're going off of rank number, but that's entirely dependant on the number of entrants to the list, and independent of the representative "quality" number. If there's one thing I learned in college, it's that you can skew just about any data set in any way depending on how you construct your tests, collect your data, and distribute the results. I personally loved it because it made my thesis papers so easy write.

Arguing the scores is basically pointless with a Canon user who continually tries to influence people to doubt the DXO Mark site's veracity.

Why does it matter that I shoot Canon? I would argue this regardless of what I shoot because, while information like this is interesting, it's not really as useful as it should be; especially in real-world applications. It's theoretical vs practical. Not that it doesnt have its place, just that its place isn't the sole source of comparison between two complete cameras.


Back on topic though!

Also I am still looking at these to cameras i recently tested out both of the cameras and I like how both of them feel. I talked to the rep and she tried to basically get me to buy the newest thing which is the t2i and said the d90 is trash against it. Obviously I didn't believe a word that came out of her mouth. Also i noticed the 50d was 50 dollars more then d90. I have read numerous forums and it says the 50d is better. But anyways what I liked about the t2i was the HD capability but on the other hand the d90 gave me more options to work with. But I am still stuck :meh:

The 50D is a great camera, but it's starting to show its age. If you don't need video, I think it's the best choice of those three. But I own one, so I'm clearly pretty bias. CanonRumors hints at a new 60D coming out soon, but the price point will probably be a bit more than the current 50D (though less than the 7D); just to throw another wrench in the cogs.

Again though, it depends on which brand fits you best. Some like the Nikon feel, menu system, and button layout. I happen to prefer Canon's. You're buying into an entire line of camera bodies, lenses, and accessories, so pick which system works best with how you like to shoot. :thumbup:

 

[WowIshDanny]

Also I am still looking at these to cameras i recently tested out both of the cameras and I like how both of them feel. I talked to the rep and she tried to basically get me to buy the newest thing which is the t2i and said the d90 is trash against it. Obviously I didn't believe a word that came out of her mouth. Also i noticed the 50d was 50 dollars more then d90. I have read numerous forums and it says the 50d is better. But anyways what I liked about the t2i was the HD capability but on the other hand the d90 gave me more options to work with. But I am still stuck :meh:

The 50D is a great camera, but it's starting to show its age. If you don't need video, I think it's the best choice of those three. But I own one, so I'm clearly pretty bias. CanonRumors hints at a new 60D coming out soon, but the price point will probably be a bit more than the current 50D (though less than the 7D); just to throw another wrench in the cogs.

Again though, it depends on which brand fits you best. Some like the Nikon feel, menu system, and button layout. I happen to prefer Canon's. You're buying into an entire line of camera bodies, lenses, and accessories, so pick which system works best with how you like to shoot. :thumbup:[/QUOTE]

Yea I understand but for me this is going to be my first camera. I look at it is like are you a MAC or a PC haha but yea. I can work with any I know both is way different setting and button layout. I have a feeling I am going to do a a little of video but not extensively. Also I'm looking for the one that give you a better image quality because to me it is a camera not a camcorder.

 

[cfusionpm]

I see you're in San Diego, I'll PM you about a local photo workshop coming up for some real world experience.

 

[Vinny]

It's partly marketing, partly performance and mostly profits for a company. The T2i is about the same to the Nikon D90 in photo performance and is better in the movie end of performance. From the stuff of what I read a lot of newbies are looking for that feature so Nikon is below the Canon in that respect. I imagine since it has been offered it will be a feature that is going to be pushed (marketing) and wanted. Nikon probably doesn't want to be close to Canon in performance so it may do something to be up on Canon (and Canon will put something else there as well) and ultimately the goal for every company is to rack in profits. I can't speak of Canon as the D90 is the second Nikon I 've owned but obviously they make a good camera as well.

It just may come down that you like one brand more than another and IMO it sounds as though you already do. If you are really undecided I would list the pros and cons for each camera for you and let that be the deciding factor. Remember this is your camera and it doesn't matter what any of us thinks!

Although I didn't really look at Canon as an option I was also interested in Pentax but I didn't care for the only Pentax dealer around me so I bought the Nikon at a different local dealer. Talk about marketing when I told my son (college age as well) I was thinking about a Pentax, the only name he knew as "quality" was Nikon ... I had to explain to him there were other quality names.

To answer Vinny. College classes start in the summer and In my opinion I think the d90 will only get replaced if Canon puts up a worthy match or something a little bit better beside its not just about the camera its about the marketing isn't it?



Also I am still looking at these to cameras i recently tested out both of the cameras and I like how both of them feel. I talked to the rep and she tried to basically get me to buy the newest thing which is the t2i and said the d90 is trash against it. Obviously I didn't believe a word that came out of her mouth. Also i noticed the 50d was 50 dollars more then d90. I have read numerous forums and it says the 50d is better. But anyways what I liked about the t2i was the HD capability but on the other hand the d90 gave me more options to work with. But I am still stuck :meh:

 

[WowIshDanny]

It's partly marketing, partly performance and mostly profits for a company. The T2i is about the same to the Nikon D90 in photo performance and is better in the movie end of performance. From the stuff of what I read a lot of newbies are looking for that feature so Nikon is below the Canon in that respect. I imagine since it has been offered it will be a feature that is going to be pushed (marketing) and wanted. Nikon probably doesn't want to be close to Canon in performance so it may do something to be up on Canon (and Canon will put something else there as well) and ultimately the goal for every company is to rack in profits. I can't speak of Canon as the D90 is the second Nikon I 've owned but obviously they make a good camera as well.

It just may come down that you like one brand more than another and IMO it sounds as though you already do. If you are really undecided I would list the pros and cons for each camera for you and let that be the deciding factor. Remember this is your camera and it doesn't matter what any of us thinks!

Although I didn't really look at Canon as an option I was also interested in Pentax but I didn't care for the only Pentax dealer around me so I bought the Nikon at a different local dealer. Talk about marketing when I told my son (college age as well) I was thinking about a Pentax, the only name he knew as "quality" was Nikon ... I had to explain to him there were other quality names.

To answer Vinny. College classes start in the summer and In my opinion I think the d90 will only get replaced if Canon puts up a worthy match or something a little bit better beside its not just about the camera its about the marketing isn't it?



Also I am still looking at these to cameras i recently tested out both of the cameras and I like how both of them feel. I talked to the rep and she tried to basically get me to buy the newest thing which is the t2i and said the d90 is trash against it. Obviously I didn't believe a word that came out of her mouth. Also i noticed the 50d was 50 dollars more then d90. I have read numerous forums and it says the 50d is better. But anyways what I liked about the t2i was the HD capability but on the other hand the d90 gave me more options to work with. But I am still stuck :meh:

Yea I also saw pentax and was researching it but I cant seem to find a dealer in my area that is not Ritzcamera. But thanks for your input

 

[Live_free]

Yup...and the three cameras I listed as #17,#18,#19 ALL share the SAME Sony-made sensor,and the difference in image quality scores is due to the electronics and image processing and demosaicing routines used in those three cameras.

And somehow the 600$ D5000 scores higher than the $1700 D300s, despite sharing a similar sensor (with the D300s having 14 bits per pixel and the D5000/D90 with 12). And despite being a year newer, it's behind the much-cheaper D90 by nearly 3 points! Whats up with that?

Funny, it took you about five minutes to reply to my post.

Yeah, you caught me between rounds on Modern Warfare 2. Kids these days and their dern videogames.


How do you get two times? 68 isn't half of 72, is it? Unless you're going off of rank number, but that's entirely dependant on the number of entrants to the list, and independent of the representative "quality" number. If there's one thing I learned in college, it's that you can skew just about any data set in any way depending on how you construct your tests, collect your data, and distribute the results. I personally loved it because it made my thesis papers so easy write.

Arguing the scores is basically pointless with a Canon user who continually tries to influence people to doubt the DXO Mark site's veracity.

Why does it matter that I shoot Canon? I would argue this regardless of what I shoot because, while information like this is interesting, it's not really as useful as it should be; especially in real-world applications. It's theoretical vs practical. Not that it doesnt have its place, just that its place isn't the sole source of comparison between two complete cameras.


Back on topic though!

Also I am still looking at these to cameras i recently tested out both of the cameras and I like how both of them feel. I talked to the rep and she tried to basically get me to buy the newest thing which is the t2i and said the d90 is trash against it. Obviously I didn't believe a word that came out of her mouth. Also i noticed the 50d was 50 dollars more then d90. I have read numerous forums and it says the 50d is better. But anyways what I liked about the t2i was the HD capability but on the other hand the d90 gave me more options to work with. But I am still stuck :meh:

The 50D is a great camera, but it's starting to show its age. If you don't need video, I think it's the best choice of those three. But I own one, so I'm clearly pretty bias. CanonRumors hints at a new 60D coming out soon, but the price point will probably be a bit more than the current 50D (though less than the 7D); just to throw another wrench in the cogs.

Again though, it depends on which brand fits you best. Some like the Nikon feel, menu system, and button layout. I happen to prefer Canon's. You're buying into an entire line of camera bodies, lenses, and accessories, so pick which system works best with how you like to shoot. :thumbup:

Funny that not only did you not mention your old contention on the Hasselblad H3DII but you dropped it completely.. I rest this point of argument.

MY first contention is cfusion has brought up no credible evidence to show that this "arbitrary" difference is really arbitrary. Whilst many have brought up proof that the other sensor is better. While the difference may be small would you rather have a better product the D90 or an inferior product the T2i. Case rested..



To the OP, the 50D is a good camera and a much better comparison to the D90, again it has an inferior sensor but has slight weather proofing and faster shutter. So it depends, do you want a faster shutter and slight weather proofing (light sprinkle rain) or better ISO and pictures? You decide.

 

[KmH]

I think the d90 will only get replaced if Canon puts up a worthy match or something a little bit better beside its not just about the camera its about the marketing isn't it?

8/27/2008 Nikon releases the D90.

Seven months later on 3/25/2009 Canon releases the T1i (500D, Kiss Digital X3) Canon's answer to Nikon's very successful and popular D90.

D90 sales skyrocket, while T1i sales fizzle.

Canon scrambles, drops back and punts, releasing the T2i just 11 months after the T1i. (that cost them some $$$'s and is one of the shorter digital camera body product cycles, ever.)

That was just 3 months ago. Canon won't be offering anything else new in this catagory anytime soon.

Nikon is likely to rightly milk the popularity of the D90 for all it's worth before they update, or replace it.

 

[WowIshDanny]

I think the d90 will only get replaced if Canon puts up a worthy match or something a little bit better beside its not just about the camera its about the marketing isn't it?

8/27/2008 Nikon releases the D90.

Seven months later on 3/25/2009 Canon releases the T1i (500D, Kiss Digital X3) Canon's answer to Nikon's very successful and popular D90.

D90 sales skyrocket, while T1i sales fizzle.

Canon scrambles, drops back and punts, releasing the T2i just 11 months after the T1i. (that cost them some $$$'s and is one of the shorter digital camera body product cycles, ever.)

That was just 3 months ago. Canon won't be offering anything else new in this catagory anytime soon.

Nikon is likely to rightly milk the popularity of the D90 for all it's worth before they update, or replace it.

Yea thats what i exactly ment about the d90 haha but yea. I have a feeling nikon has something up their sleeve.

 

[cfusionpm]

To the OP, the 50D is a good camera and a much better comparison to the D90, again it has an inferior sensor but has slight weather proofing and faster shutter. So it depends, do you want a faster shutter and slight weather proofing (light sprinkle rain) or better ISO and pictures? You decide.

Yeah, if you want your high ISO images to have pre-imposed, in-camera noise reduction, which you can't fully turn off, and results in a loss of detail at high ISO, the D90 is your best bet. :thumbup:

Also, faster shutter doesn't really have anything to do with faster burst rate. While it's true that the 50D does have a faster shutter speed (1/8000 vs D90's 1/4000), its also 2 frames per second faster in burst mode (6.3 vs 4.5) and can record more than twice as many shots during each burst before running out of buffer (almost 4 times as many JPGs with UDMA CF).

But hey, whatever you need to keep telling yourself to justify that D90. :thumbup:

While the difference may be small would you rather have a better product the D90 or an inferior product the T2i. Case rested..

I would argue that the differences aren't just small, but so small that if you were given two images; print or on-screen, from those two cameras, you would be completely unable to tell which camera each came from.

While I do think the D90 is a better camera than the T2i, it has nothing to do with its sensor or its image quality, and everything to do with features and amenities not offered on the T2i (ignoring video, which the T2i is vastly better with).

 

[eriqalan]

spoken like a true fan boy

The D90 is not the same class as the XSi; it is in the same class as the 50D
Typical fan boy has no idea what he is talking about - check Wiki Nikon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and Comparison of Canon EOS Digital Cameras - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia