Need your help and advice on my new D7100

goodguy

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Really, really annoying.
I never really got to fully enjoy my D7000 because it had focusing issues so just because of that I upgraded to the D7100.

The D7100 pictures are Soooo much sharper and I also notice a big improvement in Dynamic Range BUT.............................

Its noise performance is considerably worst then on my D7000 which is puzzling because while the D7100 has more MP it is still supposed to be a bit better in low light then the D7000.
The D7000 was a champ in low light, I took pictures in 3200ISO with very, very little noise.
On 1600ISO there was no noise at all.
On the D7100 pictures already start getting noisy on 800ISO and on 1600ISO its pretty noticeable and the more I bump the ISO the more notisable it gets to a point that I will try not to use it on 3200ISO.
I am posting here cropped samples I took this morning.
I shoot in RAW and didnt d any processing on these pictures except cropping them.
I shoot in DX mode
White balance is on Auto1
Long exposure NR is off
High ISO NR is on Norm

I want to add that in 400ISO in good lighting condition the pictures are completely clean and beautiful, I am very happy with the camera in good lighting condition and is VERY disappointed in low light.
So is it something with my setting or should I go back to the seller and complaint ?
Is this something other D7100 users experienced ?

1600ISO

1600iso_zps058815a5.jpg


2000ISO

2000iso_zps66fdf740.jpg


2500ISO

2500iso_zpsa6064d76.jpg


3200ISO

3200iso_zpsdd799158.jpg
 

DarkShadow

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I think this is going to be the norm with crop sensors.My guess is the reason why the D7000 seemed better at ISO is because for one it never was 100 percent in the focus area so that soften things up a bit and two because the AA filter. Your D7100 as you say is much sharper in the focus area and the removal of the AA filter is why you are seeing more noise because its sharper and any noise in the picture will be more apparent. I think your only going to get the high iso very low noise is in full frame.
 
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TheLost

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IMHO... that's not a very good image to compare with.. it seems waaaay under exposed..

I'll post better pictures when i get home from work but this was taken @ 4000ISO (1/1000 & f/2.8)
midnight-2.jpg


While its not a super great image/subject (i didn't have a good spot during those drills... and it was taken at ~1am and i wasn't very awake) i've always been impressed by my D7100 in low light. It delivers 'cleaner' images then my D7000 at comparable ISO's.

again... when i get access to my home computer i'll post better samples.
 

TheLost

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Quick question... Are those 100% crops?
 

ToddnTN

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I have been having the same problem with my D5200. I have not been impressed with ISO on anyhting 800 and above. I chalked it up to my having too high of expectations.
I posted a thread asking if this was as good as my camera was going to get or if I was doing something wrong, but got very little repsonse.

I have been fairly pleased with the noise reduction on my photos with lightroom 5. Still not as good as I would like them to be, but better.
 

ToddnTN

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I will admit I am a pixel peeper and thus I admit that my expectations are probably to high.
 

KmH

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You can only judge noise performance with properly exposed images.
Independent testing lab results shoe the D7100 has sightly better ISO performance than the D7000 has.
DxOMark - Compare cameras side by side

Under exposure makes image noise more visible.
The way you gauge exposure accuracy with a digital camera is by looking at the images histogram:
Understanding Digital Camera Histograms: Tones and Contrast
Understanding Digital Camera Histograms: Luminosity and Color

Because of the way digital images work, an approach to exposyre developed that is known as Expose To The Right or ETTR.
Optimizing Exposure
ETTR

Here is some somewhat technical information.
http://wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adob...e/en/products/photoshop/pdfs/linear_gamma.pdf
and this
Real World Camera Raw: Exposure and Linear Capture > Exposure and Linear Capture
. . . correct exposure in the digital realm means keeping the highlights as close to blowing out, without actually doing so, as possible. If you fall prey to the temptation to underexpose images to avoid blowing out the highlights, you’ll waste a lot of the bits the camera can capture, and you’ll run a significant risk of introducing noise in the midtones and shadows.
 

cgw

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I'm going to have to side with Skott Kelby on this one (not sure who Scott Kelby is? Scott Kelby - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)..


Despite the cheerleading, he doesn't say a word about what he does or how in post to cope with noise. I keep reading that the 16mp Sony sensor in the D7000 is less noisy overall-and especially in shadows--than the Toshiba sensor D7100.
 
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goodguy

goodguy

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My head is spinning with all the replies, thank you all very much.
My gut feeling told me that because the D7000 was soft then it was not showing the noise while the D7100 is a lean mean sharp machine and thus is more prone to show noise in high ISO.
This might be the answer I don't know.

The pictures are cropped, if not cropped then it is not bad at all, what I want to know is if the camera has a problem or not.
If not then I will learn to live with it (I don't have an other choice LOL).

I will go through KmH links and maybe understand this issue better.
 

Derrel

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You can only judge noise performance with properly exposed images.SNIP>>>>
. . . correct exposure in the digital realm means keeping the highlights as close to blowing out, without actually doing so, as possible. If you fall prey to the temptation to underexpose images to avoid blowing out the highlights, you’ll waste a lot of the bits the camera can capture, and you’ll run a significant risk of introducing noise in the midtones and shadows.
[/QUOTE]

KmH's comments, quoted, trimmed, and the most salient facts put in bold for emphasis. YES....your lightswitch shot looks wayyyyyyyy under. Thom Hogan's D7100 review notes that there *is* a bit more noise in the D7100's new sensor than in the D7000's sensor--when people underdexpose by five f/stops and then try and lift the shadows in post...there's noise. In fact, Hogan specifically addresses this issue, of people on the web complaining about noise in the shadows when they try to rescue grossly under-exposed frames. His review might set your mind at ease with his full explanation of the issue.

If a part of the scene is supposed to be in blackness, and in fact represent shadows, then there's no need to "lift" it in post...

But yeah, the Hogan review discusses this characteristic of the D7100's sensor. It's the same,exact issue the Canon 5D Mark III sensor has, even at base ISO...if its shadow areas are lifted, they are filled with noise, and patterned banding. Here, take a look, and compare the 5D III versus the D800 and shadow noise galore, versus no shadow noise,no patterned banding. If you want world-class sensor performance even in under-exposed image areas, you could elect to but a D800! The wife will let you!

Part II - Controlled tests
 

TheLost

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Despite the cheerleading, he doesn't say a word about what he does or how in post to cope with noise.

Well... duuuuhh..... you have to sign up for kelbytraning to learn that!!! :)
 
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goodguy

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Thanks Derrel and KhM you made me feel much better.
I am so overwhelmed by the performance of the D7100 and love it so much that seeing this issue is a bit of cold water on my excitement but I think for the money this is the best I can currently get.
I am sure I will be happy for a while with this camera till I am ready to move up to the big league and get an FX body.
A very good friend of mine bought a D7100 few days after me so I plan on going to his house soon put both cameras to the test, use same lighting, setting and lenses and try them both out.
If I see no difference then I will know this is how the camera is designed and if I see any real big difference then I will know I need to fix the camera.
From what I see and feel I think my camera is just fine and it looks like in low light the D7000 is indeed better, a price to pay for the outstanding sharpness and dynamic range of the D7100.
 

cgw

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Despite the cheerleading, he doesn't say a word about what he does or how in post to cope with noise.

Well... duuuuhh..... you have to sign up for kelbytraning to learn that!!! :)

He's right up there with Moose in the "Never Met a Nikon I Didn't Like" club. Always struck me as a borderline shill.
 

Tailgunner

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From what I see and feel I think my camera is just fine and it looks like in low light the D7000 is indeed better,

I'm not buying it.

I shoot almost exclusively at night and generally shoot 200-400 ISO except when shooting action which is generally around 3200 ISO. So I wanted to see what my D7100 does at higher ISO. I broke out my D7100, cut off some lights in the hallway and cranked up the ISO.

All I did was trim the photos a little but other wise their almost full size and straight out of the camera. Photos may have some fuzzy/blur, I was too lazy to use a tripod.

D7100/Nikon 28-70mm 2.8/3200



D7100/Nikon 18-200mm F4/3200



D7100/Nikon 18-200mm F4/6400

 

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