New 5Ds and 5Ds R

[photoguy99]

An AA filter IS a low-pass filter. And, yes, removing (or replacing them with something else that does the same job less well, and has a different name) them is kind of a thing these days. It's lousy engineering, but excellent marketing.

 

[bribrius]

really though...
im not all that interested in seeing another "MP war"....
i think we have plenty of MP's as it is.
i would rather see that R&D go into:
better ISO performance.
better FPS for the high MP cameras we already have.
better weather sealing.
mindlink connections for controlling the camera with your brain.

you know..useful stuff.

Exactly, give me better ISO performance, more, more, more, you can never have too good low light performance.
It doesn't create huge files, just cleaner shots with more detail and better DR

There comes a point where you have to just add light. I'd rather have a 100-6400 ISO range and have it be perfect throughout.

agree. There is iso and then there is usable iso. having a high iso doesnt do much if it isnt usable. i kind of like the idea of more mps and i try not to shoot up near 6400 anyway never mind over it. i would guess the lower iso is because the higher mps create more noise.

 

[goodguy]

really though...
im not all that interested in seeing another "MP war"....
i think we have plenty of MP's as it is.
i would rather see that R&D go into:
better ISO performance.
better FPS for the high MP cameras we already have.
better weather sealing.
mindlink connections for controlling the camera with your brain.

you know..useful stuff.

Exactly, give me better ISO performance, more, more, more, you can never have too good low light performance.
It doesn't create huge files, just cleaner shots with more detail and better DR

There comes a point where you have to just add light. I'd rather have a 100-6400 ISO range and have it be perfect throughout.

Agree but still if you had a camera which had the capability of shooting at 400000ISO and results would look EXACTLY like its 100ISO I think you wouldn't say NO to that

 

[snerd]

An AA filter IS a low-pass filter. And, yes, removing (or replacing them with something else that does the same job less well, and has a different name) them is kind of a thing these days. It's lousy engineering, but excellent marketing.

Well, do you think it's needed or not needed? What is lousy engineering? Removing them? I thought I had half an idea what I was talking about, now I'm not so sure lol!!

 

[Overread19 7]

An AA filter IS a low-pass filter. And, yes, removing (or replacing them with something else that does the same job less well, and has a different name) them is kind of a thing these days. It's lousy engineering, but excellent marketing.

Not really - the AA filter is there to remove an error that occurs because of a software/technical side of things; therefore in theory it can be fixed with the right technology. So in theory one day we should b able to remove the AA filter and have no risks at all.

As it is Nikon has done well removing their AA filter in general and as the tech improves I suspect it could even become a normal thing one day.

 

[snerd]

.......

Dood, I looked at your Flickr page. I've never seen anything cuter and more full of Awwwwwwww than this pic of the doves.

https://flic.kr/p/nJBo9P



Well, I can't seem to get the right link. Sorry. It's the doves kissing.

 

[photoguy99]

Huh? An Anti-Aliasing filter is the thing that prevents Aliasing, which is a low pass filter. In the land of optics it's harder to build a good one than it is in the land of audio, but they try.

Nikon, as I recall, removed the layer named AA Filter, but left in some stuff in the sensor sandwich that removes some of the higher spatial frequencies, to reduce aliasing (that is, moire).

As pixel pitch goes down it becomes less and less relevant. The aperture of a lens produces diffraction, which will work as a pretty decent low-pass (AA) filter. Above about f/4 this is all that's necessary with the newest high density sensors. At more open apertures, the Airy Discs are smaller than the sensels, so there's a possibility for moire. At this point you're relying on:

- in general it takes fairly special visual material in-frame to produce moire in the first place, and that stuff is pretty rare
- the DoF is so shallow that much of the frame will not be a problem (blur doesn't moire)
- there are other sources of blur that will usually dominate (camera motion, etc)

So with something like a 50mp sensor, even if there legitimately is NOT an AA filter of any kind, even under another name, you're not going to see moire all that often.

 

[gsgary]

really though...
im not all that interested in seeing another "MP war"....
i think we have plenty of MP's as it is.
i would rather see that R&D go into:
better ISO performance.
better FPS for the high MP cameras we already have.
better weather sealing.
mindlink connections for controlling the camera with your brain.

you know..useful stuff.

Exactly, give me better ISO performance, more, more, more, you can never have too good low light performance.
It doesn't create huge files, just cleaner shots with more detail and better DR

There comes a point where you have to just add light. I'd rather have a 100-6400 ISO range and have it be perfect throughout.

Agree but still if you had a camera which had the capability of shooting at 400000ISO and results would look EXACTLY like its 100ISO I think you wouldn't say NO to that

I would

 

[photoguy99]

And to answer the other question, removing the AA filter isn't very good engineering, on account of you'll get moire sometimes, and while they claim they can just fix it in software, they're wrong. The whole point of aliasing is that you CANNOT tell the difference between a low frequency signal and an aliased high frequency one. You cannot reliably distinguish between moire, and a real pattern within the frame that happens to look like moire. You can guess, but you can't be sure.

In reality, as I mentioned, there's enough other crap in the signal path that will do the anti-aliasing job that it's becoming more and more possible to remove the dedicated component named "AA Filter". I don't think we're quite there yet, since I still see people complaining about moire.

 

[bribrius]

And to answer the other question, removing the AA filter isn't very good engineering, on account of you'll get moire sometimes, and while they claim they can just fix it in software, they're wrong. The whole point of aliasing is that you CANNOT tell the difference between a low frequency signal and an aliased high frequency one. You cannot reliably distinguish between moire, and a real pattern within the frame that happens to look like moire. You can guess, but you can't be sure.

In reality, as I mentioned, there's enough other crap in the signal path that will do the anti-aliasing job that it's becoming more and more possible to remove the dedicated component named "AA Filter". I don't think we're quite there yet, since I still see people complaining about moire.

how do you feel about removing moire in post processing. ya know, checking off the box and picking low medium or high or moving the slider kind of thing.

 

[Overread19 7]

Photo - yes we are not there yet but we are getting there. For a camera that is clearly aimed at a studio market the photographer can remove elements which could cause moire from the scene and thus get increased clarity and sharpness. In the real world its less suitable, but as tech improves it should be possible one day


also pigeons

 

[bribrius]

Photo - yes we are not there yet but we are getting there. For a camera that is clearly aimed at a studio market the photographer can remove elements which could cause moire from the scene and thus get increased clarity and sharpness. In the real world its less suitable, but as tech improves it should be possible one day


also pigeons

you even make a pigeon shot look great....Geeez, it is too bad some of you more experienced and great photographers never post photos... I think i saw maybe one photo post from terri in a year....

 

[photoguy99]

The only way to remove moire in post (reliably) is to manually select what's moire and what's not. Then the moired regions can be corrected by software.

Otherwise the software is just guessing and blurring out stuff that looks moire-ish.

 

[James Baranski]

50Mp???? Good grief; the files from my D800 at 36Mp are usually WAY more than I need and a LOT to handle computer-wise, You're going to chew up hard drive space like there's no tomorrow.

Storage is crazy cheap. File size is a non-issue.

SSD's are about to take an other dive

 

[rexbobcat]

Given Canon's track record, I assume dark noise is still going to be disgusting, especially with that many MPs.

Wonderful.