New type of metering?

[Josh66]

^^^ <facepalm> really, man? we're really going to do this?

I realise that spot metering is pretty accurate for Asian skin tones as long as you add 1/4 stop exposure compensation to all pictures.

It's probably actually not that far off. Except that no camera I've seen has 1/4 stop adjustments. 1/2 or 1/3 stop adjustments are the norm (assuming it was a typo).


I mean, it's not so different than the old 'metering off a Caucasian persons hand' trick...

 

[unpopular]

It's probably actually not that far off.

It's not that he's wrong, it's just that asian people's skin isn't anything special. As you already know, Josh, you can meter off anything and compensate the exposure accordingly.

The great thing about this all is that it's not specific. People should stop looking at metering in terms of accuracy but rather in terms of how the photographer wants the scene to be rendered and in what areas need the most detail.

 

[Josh66]

People should stop looking at metering in terms of accuracy but rather in terms of how the photographer wants the scene to be rendered.

Exactly. When I take a meter reading on something, I'm thinking 'how dark/light do I want this to be?'.

 

[unpopular]

yep. and I really don't like the "get it right in camera" approach. It has merit, but I think it's far better to think of post processing as a part of the exposure process the way we think of processing a b/w negative: to retain maximize detail so that it can be effectively used in the darkroom.

This "in camera" idea was certainly the way to go with ciba, but from my experience digital is far closer in approach to b/w than it is to color slides.

 

[Josh66]

I never really shot slides, but I meter everything as if I'm shooting B&W (digital included). Hasn't steered me wrong yet...

 

[unpopular]

I started this way also with digital, but found that it's very easy to clip hilights. With film, I normally would pick the darkest point and place at Zone III, and then typically process at N-1 or N-2 then I'd print with a #3 or #4 filter, or split #5 for the upper hilights and #3 for the shadows, or even 5-3-4 - all ofcourse depending on the situation.

But getting ample shadow detail in digital often lead to clipped hilights. You can go infinitely deep into the shadows, so it's a matter of knowing how far down to meter and how far up you can place and get away with it. So it's a lot easier for me to meter off the hilights and let the shadows fall where they will, and then apply a curve to build density in a similar concept as cutting development time to build up hilight density.

Make sense?

 

[unpopular]

I think I can systemize this!! I need to find a 10 step wedge.

ETA: wow. those are expensive.

 

[Derrel]

Shouldn't there be a new type of metering? A metering that calculates how many stops from blowing out the highlights/how much exposure needed to decrease to prevent blowing out the highlight?

This technology ALREADY EXISTS. It's in the Sekonic L-758 DR meter...it has been out for several years now. Each camera and sensor needs to be profiled by the user. The meter can store various profiles. One might also say that the old Weston Master Series meters with their Zone System-marked dials performed a similar function. The implementation that Sekonic has developed is much different, however, and relies upon actual, SPECIFIC cameras and their specific, tested ISO performance and dynamic range performance to allow the user to calibrate HIS or HER camera and its sensor using Photoshop and test targets exposed and then imported into PS, after multiple, carefully bracketed series of exposures have been made.

L-758DR DigitalMaster - Features


Review: Sekonic L-758DR DigitalMaster Lightmeter | Popular Photography

 

[EchoingWhisper]

Shouldn't there be a new type of metering? A metering that calculates how many stops from blowing out the highlights/how much exposure needed to decrease to prevent blowing out the highlight?

This technology ALREADY EXISTS. It's in the Sekonic L-758 DR meter...it has been out for several years now. Each camera and sensor needs to be profiled by the user. The meter can store various profiles. One might also say that the old Weston Master Series meters with their Zone System-marked dials performed a similar function. The implementation that Sekonic has developed is much different, however, and relies upon actual, SPECIFIC cameras and their specific, tested ISO performance and dynamic range performance to allow the user to calibrate HIS or HER camera and its sensor using Photoshop and test targets exposed and then imported into PS, after multiple, carefully bracketed series of exposures have been made.

L-758DR DigitalMaster - Features


Review: Sekonic L-758DR DigitalMaster Lightmeter | Popular Photography

It is cool, but wouldn't it be cooler if it is integrated into cameras and analyzes the entire picture instead of just one spot? You never know which spot is the brightest.

 

[ann]

After reading all four pages, doesn't this just come down to understanding meters, how they work and realizing they make recommendations, and we as the photographer have to decide how we want the image to appear when finished?

Perhaps this is a reflection of "old age" and traditional training of over 64 years. (no pun intended with the term reflection).

Clearly many involved in this discussion, understand metering and how to use it effectively, perhaps the OP is depending on the meter to know what they want. (Frankly after 4 pages, i have forgotten the intent of the question.)

 

[unpopular]

traditional training of over 64 years. (no pun intended with the term reflection).

... or with the number 64.

 

[KmH]

The OP wants a camera that does everything, so there is zero workload on the wetware.

 

[unpopular]

How is a meter that provides latitude information "everything"? I agree that he needs to learn how to use a meter.

 

[ann]

Hadn't thought about the 64 business but that works as well.

Years ago when I first began my photo journey which was for real 64 years ago; we had to learn how to use fstops/shutter speed and light meters, or fail.

I can remember it well, when the lightbulb went on about the doubling and halving of values became clear. I struggle for a long time understanding how that was possible. In those days, there weren't classes and the internet, etc. we just dove in and by trial and error figured things out.

IMHO, there are photographers who learn the craft and skill of using their equipment and then now we have folks who love taking pictures, but have no real understanding of how to be in control of their tools. I am not sure it is all their fault. Advertising certainly doesn't help.

Don't get me wrong, it is wonderful people love taking pictures, but fewer are interested in photography than they are with making "better mom pictures". The quote comes from a student, and I understand exactly what she wants to learn. However, it isn't really photography in the sense of the word so many here are discussing.

However, these folks have bought into the advertising and struggle when they find out, that it takes hard work and lots of practice to gain control of their tools; many just throw in the towel or want the makers to make it easier. Then get pissed when people with photography backgrounds and love of the beauty of craft don't love just every photo they post.

Don't mean to get so off track, but for me at least, it all comes back to learning how to use your tools with metering being critical. Without being boastful, how many of you make errors in metering? Probably rarely and that is because you have spent the time learning how to meter. I know for a fact my computer (brain) just takes charge and I make adjustments and evaluate the scene without much conscience thought. That doesn't make me special, that is the result of lots of practice and failures and paying attention to those failures so corrections could be made going forward.

Every time I get a new camera I have to run some test shots to program my brain to react to it's qualities and if I forget and use old information then I am not a happy camper.

Bottom line the meter is just a guide not an absolute, learn how to use that information for getting the proper exposures.

 

[KmH]

How is a meter that provides latitude information "everything"? I agree that he needs to learn how to use a meter.

Look at all the threads this OP has started.