Next purchase for OCF use?

[Tbini87]

Hey guys,
I have been trying to get my SB-600 off camera and really like it. However, we don't really have any gear to help us. We have some wireless trigger and receivers on the way and a cheap sto-fen diffuser. I am trying to find out what the next purchase should be to help us get some nice light from the flash. I will pick up a stand soon (anything I need to know in particular for an SB-600 with a cactus v4 trigger on it?). Is an SB-600 with a diffuser on a stand enough for now? Should we be using an umbrella or softbox or something? We have been shooting on location and don't have any access to a studio, so I guess portability is certainly a concern. Budget is not very big either. We will mostly be shooting portraits of kids and families, but also have some weddings coming up in about 8 months. Any tips or gear recommendations would be appreciated.

Oh, and I totally understand that gear alone won't make our photos look pro quality. We still have a TON of learning to do and are working on that too!

 

[Buckster]

Let's see...

No experience. Check.
No knowledge. Check.
No money. Check.
Already booking portraits and weddings. Check.



Get an umbrella and get over to Strobist 101 to at least get some basics.

 

[Tbini87]

Let's see...

No experience. Check.
No knowledge. Check.
No money. Check.
Already booking portraits and weddings. Check.



Get an umbrella and get over to Strobist 101 to at least get some basics.

NO experience?
NO knowledge?
NO money?

Your ability to jump to wrong conclusions in comical. We have been shooting portraits and family shots for a few months now and can get a decently exposed shot once in a while. We don't have a ton of any of the above... but getting more and more all the time. We have had 2 friends contact us about possibly shooting their weddings, and we were able to do engagement shots to their liking and we booked their weddings. I have confidence in our ability to learn and be ready for their weddings with 7 months of practice. I have already been over to Strobist and really like the site. That is actually what got my into wanting to incorporate OCF into my images. Thanks for your helpful contributions to the thread.

 

[Buckster]

Just being realistic is all. My conclusions are right on. What's really comical is that you're asking the extremely noobish kinds of questions you are, while booking professional gigs.

It's like a "doctor" scheduling organ transplants while asking on a forum what color and size scalpels he should buy, and whether he'll need to sterilize them or will they come all ready to go.

It's just funny to watch people naive enough to think they can go from Noob to Pro in 0.3 seconds based on the fact that they figured out how to press a shutter button.

No offense intended - it just makes me laugh. And sometimes cringe, when I look at the photos and think of the victims.

 

[eric-holmes]

can get a decently exposed shot once in a while.

You should work on that first. I would hate a wedding photographer to get a proper shot of my bride and I once and a while.

 

[Infidel]

It's like a "doctor" scheduling organ transplants while asking on a forum what color and size scalpels he should buy, and whether he'll need to sterilize them or will they come all ready to go.

Buckster, you've made some really awesome contributions to the forum (especially the recent strobist thread!!), but come on man, why bother?

The doctor-photographer comparison has come up before and frankly, it's utter B.S...."It's like a 6-year old commanding a nuclear sub while asking what the red button does" LOL. The OP got his friends to book their wedding after seeing the engagement shots...they know what level of quality to expect, regardless of whether or not they realize there is better to be had. If they can't tell or appreciate the difference between a GWAC and you, then why should they seek out a highly trained/experienced pro? It most certainly is NOT a life-threatening situation, it's just your usual case of caveat emptor.

You don't see Peter Luger's steakhouse pointing out the shortcomings of McDonald's; you don't see Mercedes Benz pointing out how a VW rabbit is less of a car than a CLS 500; you don't see Lagavulin berating Jim Beam. Their customers know what they want and are willing to spend the (large) difference in price.

 

[Tbini87]

can get a decently exposed shot once in a while.

You should work on that first. I would hate a wedding photographer to get a proper shot of my bride and I once and a while.

Brutal, you totally missed the sarcasm. I have posted a decent amount of work on the forum and have had mixed feedback. We are way beyond the "should I use Manual mode" and "what does RAW mean". We understand basic concepts and have gotten decent results with a D40 and reflector. Now that we are getting better we want to add OCF to the arsenal. OCF is not a newb concept that Buckster is making it out to be. It actually seems pretty complex and has a lot of variables and different options to it. I can use a monolight, speedlight, both, 2 of each, etc. I can use an umbrella, shoot through umbrella, softbox, diffuser, all, none, etc. These are the questions I was hoping to get guidance for. Instead people choose to be rude and degrading. I am sure I will get some answers eventually, just have to be patient and confident.

 

[Buckster]

@ Infidel:

Yeah, analogies are funny like that. But guess what? To some brides, it's IS a matter of life and death! Bet on that!

Truly, it's no skin off my nose, and really, I'm serious when I say: I find it funny, humerous, makes me smile here - I'm good with it.

But we're talking about booking weddings, after all; The biggest day in many a bride's lifetime, and one that is unforgiving when it comes to getting it as perfect as is possible. Scrimping on the photos that are supposed to best capture the events of that special day and last a lifetime of friends and family viewing is generally not a great idea, but so be it.

First his friends, who may not expect much and won't care if they don't get it. But then who's next, when he can say, "oh sure, I've done weddings, and they were VERY happy with the results"?

Maybe that's where these kinds of "Pro" photographers come from...



Again, it won't be MY wedding, or MY KID's wedding, so it's no skin off my nose. But somebody out there is likely to end up on the short end of this wannabe Pro-Photographer's lens when they don't even have a clue yet if they'll need an umbrella, and that's AFTER supposedly reading Strobist, which is as basic as it gets for lighting concepts.

Do I care? Not at all. I'm just muttering the facts of the matter as I walk away chuckling about it all...

 

[Tbini87]

Just being realistic is all. My conclusions are right on. What's really comical is that you're asking the extremely noobish kinds of questions you are, while booking professional gigs.

It's like a "doctor" scheduling organ transplants while asking on a forum what color and size scalpels he should buy, and whether he'll need to sterilize them or will they come all ready to go.

It's just funny to watch people naive enough to think they can go from Noob to Pro in 0.3 seconds based on the fact that they figured out how to press a shutter button.

No offense intended - it just makes me laugh. And sometimes cringe, when I look at the photos and think of the victims.

Your conclusions are right on? Have you looked at the images I have posted? Unless you are some creepy stalker you probably don't know anything about me or my ability or my bank account. We could simply choose to ignore OCF altogether and work with natural light only, using reflectors, or maybe a speedlight in TTL on the camera. But we don't want to limit ourselves to using those and want to branch out and learn new techniques. I don't know where you got the assumption that we expect to go from newb to pro or whatever, but we are working hard at improving and that is all that matters to us. These "bookings" we are doing are for friends who enjoy our work and we aren't charging much at all. Thanks again for all the help.

 

[Buckster]

Just being realistic is all. My conclusions are right on. What's really comical is that you're asking the extremely noobish kinds of questions you are, while booking professional gigs.

It's like a "doctor" scheduling organ transplants while asking on a forum what color and size scalpels he should buy, and whether he'll need to sterilize them or will they come all ready to go.

It's just funny to watch people naive enough to think they can go from Noob to Pro in 0.3 seconds based on the fact that they figured out how to press a shutter button.

No offense intended - it just makes me laugh. And sometimes cringe, when I look at the photos and think of the victims.

Your conclusions are right on?

Yes.

Have you looked at the images I have posted?

Yes.

Unless you are some creepy stalker you probably don't know anything about me or my ability or my bank account.

You told us in the first post.

We could simply choose to ignore OCF altogether and work with natural light only, using reflectors, or maybe a speedlight in TTL on the camera.

At a WEDDING - screams CLUELESS NOOOOOOOB! NOT Pro Wedding Photographer. Sorry, but that's it in a nutshell, thus my response.

But we don't want to limit ourselves to using those and want to branch out and learn new techniques.

That's good. I wish you all success with that, as I do all aspiring photograhers.

I don't know where you got the assumption that we expect to go from newb to pro or whatever,

You told me: You're a noob who's booking weddings.

but we are working hard at improving and that is all that matters to us.

Commendable. I applaud you.

These "bookings" we are doing are for friends who enjoy our work and we aren't charging much at all.

This is where I'll just bite my tongue...

Thanks again for all the help.

You're welcome. Sorry it wasn't all stroking and rose petals, but I've got this thing about honesty...

 

[Patrice]

Hey guys,
I have been trying to get my SB-600 off camera and really like it. However, we don't really have any gear to help us. We have some wireless trigger and receivers on the way and a cheap sto-fen diffuser. I am trying to find out what the next purchase should be to help us get some nice light from the flash. I will pick up a stand soon (anything I need to know in particular for an SB-600 with a cactus v4 trigger on it?). Is an SB-600 with a diffuser on a stand enough for now? Should we be using an umbrella or softbox or something? We have been shooting on location and don't have any access to a studio, so I guess portability is certainly a concern. Budget is not very big either. We will mostly be shooting portraits of kids and families, but also have some weddings coming up in about 8 months. Any tips or gear recommendations would be appreciated.

Oh, and I totally understand that gear alone won't make our photos look pro quality. We still have a TON of learning to do and are working on that too!

I'll try and provide a useful response here. You already are getting a stand right? You don't really want to buy another flash just yet, correct?

My suggestion is a convertible umbrella in the 36 to 40 inch range and a rather large white/silver collapsible reflector. Play with those for a bit and see how you like them. Good for a lot of situations -not the best for everything but then nothing is. Others may differ but I don't feel that a sb600 is powerful enough to properly light a soft box that would be big enough to be useful. I would not recommend any of those stofen type devices. They do absolutely nothing outdoors other than rob flash power and what they provide indoors can be done with a piece of white craft foam from wally world.

Pat

 

[Tbini87]

Buckster, I am all for honesty. Thanks for being so honest. The fact that you think you know so much about me while working with so little is a little scary.

Why is an umbrella a better choice than say a softbox?

 

[Tbini87]

I'll try and provide a useful response here. You already are getting a stand right? You don't really want to buy another flash just yet, correct?

My suggestion is a convertible umbrella in the 36 to 40 inch range and a rather large white/silver collapsible reflector. Play with those for a bit and see how you like them. Good for a lot of situations -not the best for everything but then nothing is. Others may differ but I don't feel that a sb600 is powerful enough to properly light a soft box that would be big enough to be useful. I would not recommend any of those stofen type devices. They do absolutely nothing outdoors other than rob flash power and what they provide indoors can be done with a piece of white craft foam from wally world.

Pat[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the help. We do have a reflector that is silver/gold. Should be fine. I don't think we need another flash yet unless it is really necessary (don't know enough about OCF yet to know).

 

[Infidel]

@ Infidel:

Yeah, analogies are funny like that. But guess what? To some brides, it's IS a matter of life and death! Bet on that!

Fair enough...then the onus is on them to hire the right person for the job. To roll with your healthcare analogy, these days one really ought to be their own advocate, do their homework, get a second opinion when it comes to their own health and well-being...and here we're talking about physicians who have formal education from accredited institutions and in many (most) cases are board certified. Point being, hiring a "board certified" professional photographer is no guarantee of satisfaction with results. Granted, the likelihood of getting a better product increases considerably.

But we're talking about booking weddings, after all; The biggest day in many a bride's lifetime, and one that is unforgiving when it comes to getting it as perfect as is possible. Scrimping on the photos that are supposed to best capture the events of that special day and last a lifetime of friends and family viewing is generally not a great idea, but so be it.

Again, if the bride isn't happy with the bargain basement, cut-rate, GWAC photographer/friend that she hired to document the biggest day in her life, then, well, to put it bluntly, too damn bad.

First his friends, who may not expect much and won't care if they don't get it. But then who's next, when he can say, "oh sure, I've done weddings, and they were VERY happy with the results"?

He can always show the portfolio.

Maybe that's where these kinds of "Pro" photographers come from...

YouTube - Judge Joe Brown - Cheap wedding photographer

Imagine the outcome if they had gone before a "Pro" judge!

Do I care? Not at all. I'm just muttering the facts of the matter as I walk away chuckling about it all...

Glad to hear it!

 

[Tbini87]

@ Infidel:

Yeah, analogies are funny like that. But guess what? To some brides, it's IS a matter of life and death! Bet on that!

Fair enough...then the onus is on them to hire the right person for the job. To roll with your healthcare analogy, these days one really ought to be their own advocate, do their homework, get a second opinion when it comes to their own health and well-being...and here we're talking about physicians who have formal education from accredited institutions and in many (most) cases are board certified. Point being, hiring a "board certified" professional photographer is no guarantee of satisfaction with results. Granted, the likelihood of getting a better product increases considerably.

But we're talking about booking weddings, after all; The biggest day in many a bride's lifetime, and one that is unforgiving when it comes to getting it as perfect as is possible. Scrimping on the photos that are supposed to best capture the events of that special day and last a lifetime of friends and family viewing is generally not a great idea, but so be it.

Again, if the bride isn't happy with the bargain basement, cut-rate, GWAC photographer/friend that she hired to document the biggest day in her life, then, well, to put it bluntly, too damn bad.



He can always show the portfolio.

Maybe that's where these kinds of "Pro" photographers come from...

YouTube - Judge Joe Brown - Cheap wedding photographer

Imagine the outcome if they had gone before a "Pro" judge!

Do I care? Not at all. I'm just muttering the facts of the matter as I walk away chuckling about it all...

Glad to hear it!

Thanks for being rational. Obviously we are openly showing our work, and actually doing free engagements shoots first, and letting them decide on the wedding later. No pressure, no skin off our back either way. We openly told them that we are NOT pros, and they know that we have never shot a wedding before. However, they like our work, and are going to pay WAY less for us to shoot it than for a pro who might get better results overall, but for about 4x the cost. I think you are looking at this more rationally than Buckster who was acting like we have no ability and are out to rip off every bride we come across.