Nikon 3500 - buying my first DSLR

Discussion in 'Nikon Cameras' started by EugenX, Nov 8, 2019.

  1. dunfly

    dunfly No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    The price looks good, but the 70-300 does not have vibration reduction, so you will have problems at the upper end of the zoom range. I don't know why they even make that lens (although it does allow them to sell the kit cheap). At that price, though, you can just throw it away when you can afford a better one with VR.


     
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  2. cgw

    cgw No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    Bundles, lens-wise, tend to include duds. I'd shop for a D5600 or D7200 body+35/1.8 DX AFS. The D7200 will likely be selling at a deep discount following discontinuation. Crap bags and low-end memory cards are a come-on. Think about buying informed by what/how you like to shoot rather than by packages containing stuff you don't need/want picked by a vendor interested only in pushing merch with the thickest profit.
     
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  3. ac12

    ac12 Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    IMHO, kits like that are made to a price point. Not with the most usable/practical lenses.

    Based on my experience, @dunfly is correct. I think you will be disappointed with the 70-300. Hand holding a 300mm lens without VR on a D3500 will be VERY hard. You will have to brace the camera/lens on something, to minimize camera shake. VR would make it so much easier to use. Of the two lenses, the 70-300 needs VR the most.
    I have both older non-VR lenses, and current VR lenses. I would not willingly go back to a non-VR lens.
    Today I would NOT buy a long lens without VR.
     
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  4. dunfly

    dunfly No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    Don't know if you purchased it but I did see that the kit price went up to $446.99. If you are looking for a good price, pick your price point and be ready to pull the trigger as soon as it comes up. In this case, keep watching for the $396.95 price and be ready to jump on it. Low prices don't last very long. As far as the 70-300 mm without VR, at $396.95 it was the same as the kit price with only the 18-55 mm, so you were essentially getting the 70-300 mm free. While it is not the best lens in the world, at least you would have one to work with. Like I said, you can throw it away when you can afford a better one.
     
  5. Derrel

    Derrel Mr. Rain Cloud

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    Yes I would rather have the VR feature in the 70-300 mm than I would in the 18 to 55 mm, but I own both a non-VR 70 to 300 millimeter autofocus lens made by Nikon in the 1980s, And a much newer 2005 or so 70-300 VR-G model, and the dangers of having a non-VR 70-300 are greatly exaggerated by a couple of members here. And as far as throwing the lens away... No, sell it for $75 on Craigslist

    In recent years Nikon has introduced a new low-cost 70-300 millimeter lens which has vibration reduction or VR, and also has a new autofocusing protocol called AF-P. The new focusing protocol, AF-P, really works and it basically turns an inexpensive $199 lens into one that focuses as rapidly and surely as a $2,500 lens. In the entry-level segment of the DSLR Market, there is keen competition on price, and many of the outfits like the one that you have linked to above are put together by companies looking for the absolute lowest price and then a slightly higher price, and then a top price that they have determined is the most money that people will pay.

    You have to make absolutely one hundred percent sure of which two lenses are included in the kit. If both lenses are VR lenses, then that is good.

    You may find that the most expensive kit includes two VR lenses which also have AF-P focusing. There are at least five different 70 to 300 mm lenses that Nikon has made within the past 10 years, so as I said, you must be absolutely certain of which lenses are included in a particular offer.

    I have even seen a really cheap and outdated 70 to 300 G ( the old screw- drive Focus model from almost 20 years ago now) included in a kit or two from what I would call bottom feeder dealers. This lens will not even automatically Focus on any D3000 Series camera!!!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
  6. Designer

    Designer Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    My first kit was a D5000 with the 18-55 VR and the 55-200 VR. Yes, both lenses were VR.

    The 70-300 mm lens shown in the deal you posted does not have VR. Nikon has made about 7 different versions of the 70-300mm zoom, and the one you want (IMO) is the G VR version of the 70-300mm.
     
  7. ac12

    ac12 Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    . . . the dangers of having a non-VR 70-300 are greatly exaggerated by a couple of members here.

    That is me.
    Cuz I've seen how shaky many people are, when they try to hand hold the setup. The average beginner is not trained in how to hold a LONG lens.
    With a 8.6x lens, and that is a lot of shake. Shoot at 1/1200 sec or faster, and you are probably OK, even with that amount of shake.

    The other side of VR is simply aiming the camera.
    I found that it is a LOT easier to hold the camera on a subject, when the subject is not bouncing around in the viewfinder.
    When I shoot field sports, the value of VR is not for shooting at slow shutter speed, but to stabilize the viewing image, so that I can hold the AF point on the subject.
     
  8. Derrel

    Derrel Mr. Rain Cloud

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    The lens runs from 70 mm up to 300 mm... even at three times the focal length at 70 m m you are at 1/210 second. At 200 mm, the old rule would be 1/200 of a second, and double the focal length would be 1/400 of a second, and three times the focal length would be a mere 1/600 second. As I said oh, I think there is some exaggeration going on here. We're not talking about people with palsy, but people who are actually trying to hold the camera steady, or who Avail themselves of a monopod tripod or other firm support when they must use slow shutter speeds

    I think there is some exaggeration here about the through the viewfinder stabilizing that VR does, and in fact many times VR causes the viewfinder image to Jump Around, and does not quell movement, but in fact exacerbates it. I have been using Nikon VR lenses since 2001 and I'm not sure what you are talking about. A few months ago I bought a 1988 version of Nikon's AF 75 to 300,the Auto n Autofocus model with the built-in tripod collar And the macro focusing range. I was looking at some snaps that I took with the lens handheld at speeds as low as 1/15 of a second at 300 mm and I was quite surprised ... surprisingly Sharp.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
  9. Derrel

    Derrel Mr. Rain Cloud

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    A Nikon DSLR in a current model and with two kit zooms, both of which use the new AFP focusing protocol , for just under $400 is a pretty good deal in my opinion. if you wait just a few days you might be able to get a better deal with Black Friday pricing.
     
  10. Derrel

    Derrel Mr. Rain Cloud

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    The AFP lenses are fairly new, and require fairly new cameras to work. The 18-55 has both VR and is an AF-P, so that is a good and current lens. The 70-300 is the current AF - P lens but without the VR feature and it is a good lens. The AFP autofocusing protocol Works remarkably well and even though the lens has somewhat lower specification than the more expensive vr- G version of the 70-300, it is a newer Optical design and it is better than the old VR - G, which is now over 15 years old.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
  11. ac12

    ac12 Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    The D3500 is a DX camera, so 1.5x crop.
    so 1 / (FL x 1.5) = 1/450 sec, rounds up to 1/500 sec.
    Double the speed for a newbie and you are at 1/1000.

    As much as I agree with you, about using support, I've seen too many people using a long lens with NO support.
    It is the exception that I see with a monopod and even less with a tripod. And the monopods are usually under the 70-200/2.8, 300/2.8 or 400/2.8. IOW heavy lenses.​
    To me that is similar to people holding a P&S or cell phone camera out at arms length, then they wonder why the picture is blurry.

    OK, so we agree that we use VR differently.
    I shoot field sports (football/soccer/lacrosse) with a Nikon 70-200/4 on a D7200.
    In MY experience, VR stabilizes the viewfinder image, well enough to make it a LOT easier for me to hold the AF point on the subject.
    I use single point AF, because I have to pick out ONE specific player in the several players close together, in the viewfinder.
    I have tried with VR off, and it is definitely harder to keep the AF point on the subject, when the subject is bouncing around in the viewfinder.​
    When I shoot field sports, I am not in the max stability stance, that I would use for a still subject, like shooting a target rifle. Rather I am in a stance where I can track the moving players, like shooting trap/skeet with a shotgun. VR is important to compensate for my reduced stability in that stance.

    BTW you and I are not a newbies.
    15 years ago, I shot my niece's wedding, hand held (standing), a non-VR 70-210/4 lens at 210mm on a DX camera down to 1/30 sec. That was 3-stops slower than the guideline. It was a DIM church, and I was expecting 50-75% rejects, I got 80% keepers. I used every trick in the book.
    We have that book and experience, the OP in all likelihood does not.
     
  12. JTPotter

    JTPotter TPF Noob!

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    Not wanting to steal this thread, butt I'm in the same boat as the OP. I am buying my first full frame Nikon, ready to pull the trigger, but really wondering if I should wait for black Friday deals?
    I have always bought my stuff used, I'm going new for this full frame purchase.
    Do any of you more experienced folks know if the Black Friday deals are worth waiting for?
    I'm buying the D750,
    $1200 body only
    $1700 w/24-120mm vr lens
    In your experiences does the price get any better than this on black Friday?
    I'm sorry if this is considered stealing a thread, I am not a frequent user of forums.
    Thanks
     

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