Nissin MG8000 flash experiences & wall socket?

[Niels123]

I do a lot of focus stacking at high magnifications. For this I have a setup with two Canon 600EX speedlites that are both powered by an Innovatronix external power supply that connects to a wall socket. The setup works fine, it is however quite tricky to do stacks at high power (1/4 up to 1/1) with several hundred up to a 1,000 photos / flashes. Despite that I set a extremely long delay (at high power usually maximum 2 to 4 flashes per minute), the LCD screen of the flashes often give the orange overheat-warning after several hundred flashes.

It would be nice to do these stacks at much much higher speed (from 2 to 20 photos per minute) without having the flashes being overheated or killed. I discovered the Nissin MG8000 which should be capable of firing hundreds of flashes without overheating and would be perfect for the job.

My questions are:

1) Who has experience with this particular flash? Would you recommend this?

2) Is there a possiblity to connect an external (non-battery) power supply? With so many flashes, using batteries is not really an option. The best would be to be able to use my current power supplies. I have an older model. The cable that connects to the flash and to the power supply can be detached at both ends. The connector from cable to power supply looks a bit like the old DIN-sytle mouse port, so maybe there is a cable available to connect this Nissin flash to my power supply?

Link to the power pack and to the flash:
PHOTOGRAPHY EQUIPMENT Power Supply Adaptors for Small Flashes Tronix SpeedFire For Canon Flashes Universal EU Model

Nissin MG8000 Extreme Flash for Canon Cameras NDMG8000-C B H

Thanx!
Niels

 

[tirediron]

I'd be interested in seeing your set-up and what sort of work you're doing; full-power pops from a 600EX are a lot of light (GN 197). That said, no, the Nissin wouldn't be suitable. I have the ring-flash version which is actually a surprisingly good unit, especially for the low price point, BUT... no speedlight is really designed to work that hard. Have you thought of investing in a couple of monolights? Flashpoint 1220s have a GN of 230, so you could get the same light, but firing them at less than full power making for much quicker recycling times. Monolights are designed for much harder work than speedlights as well.

 

[Niels123]

Thanx for your reply tirediron. Indeed a monolight would technically be ideal for this. However, I have fairly small setup and I cannot see how I would be able to fine-adjust the positions of the monolights and how I would be able to fit them into my setup. Attached are some photos of my setup and some photos that I made with this setup. I do mainly minerals (small crystals). The lighting is quite tricky, because often I cannot get away with "direct" flash, even with a nice large softbox as you can see in the first picture. I need to use indirect flash then, which increases the needed power by at least 2 - 3 stops.

If I look on Nissin's website it says that the MG8000 can do over a 1000 flashes in a continuum without overheating. This should be more than enough for me for > 98% of my work. For the rest I will just run the stack a lot slower.
Link: Nissin Digital Flash MG8000 Extreme Introduction

 

[tirediron]

Very cool- great images. I can see where a monolight might not work. Have you considered looking into continuous light; I'm wondering if there might not be something in the medical or scientific fields in an LED or halogen/xenon that might not work.

 

[Niels123]

On paper it should be possible to use continuous light. There is however two practical concerns:
Either:
1) Shutter speeds get realllyy long. Think in the order of tens of seconds because I want to do everything at 100 iso.
2) Vibrations are a major concern at these magnifications. Even my neighbours closing a door or a car driving outside are very clearly visible on the live view with a continouous light. I did some attempts with four IKEA 3W Led ligts (the ones visible in the pictures), but there is very clear motion blur, even though I did the very best in preventing it.
3) Increasing the power of the continuous light is not a good idea in terms of heating up your subject, especially with crystals that are prone to loose water from the crystal lattice. I also don't think small insects get any better by heating them with 500 or 1000W of light. Xenon lights have a terrible light spectrum and are therefore unusable. For proper colors (especially minerals) you need a full spectrum light soure.

 

[tirediron]

On paper it should be possible to use continuous light. There is however two practical concerns:
Either:
1) Shutter speeds get realllyy long. Think in the order of tens of seconds because I want to do everything at 100 iso.
2) Vibrations are a major concern at these magnifications. Even my neighbours closing a door or a car driving outside are very clearly visible on the live view with a continouous light. I did some attempts with four IKEA 3W Led ligts (the ones visible in the pictures), but there is very clear motion blur, even though I did the very best in preventing it.
3) Increasing the power of the continuous light is not a good idea in terms of heating up your subject, especially with crystals that are prone to loose water from the crystal lattice. I also don't think small insects get any better by heating them with 500 or 1000W of light. Xenon lights have a terrible light spectrum and are therefore unusable. For proper colors (especially minerals) you need a full spectrum light soure.

I'd look into LED; I know little about them, but it seems to me that there may well be something out there for the medical/scientific community. The downside is that if there were, it would likely cost a fortune. I'm just not 100% sure I buy off on Nissin's claim of 1000 pops without overheating. Seems a little optimistic to me.

 

[Niels123]

Crystal colors are often determined by weird absorption bands at specific wavelengths. If the light source is 'missing' this wavelength, then there is no way to get the correct color in your photos. As far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong) LED's are never full-spectrum (that's why they are so efficient).

I did a small test: four IKEA Jansjo LED-ligths directed towards a small group of Lindgrenite crystals from the Clara Mine in Wolfach, Germany. To avoid nasty reflections, I put small piece of paper between the crystals and the lights. I put a Mitutoyo 20x NA 0.42 objective in front of my Canon 200 f/2.8 L attached to a 5D III. I have filmed the static setup so nothing should move as I am just sitting on a chair and the camera is just filming with a continuous light. With this setup I need about 30 seconds of exposure at base ISO.

Here is a link to a 30 seconds video of the static live view: Video - TinyPic - Gratis foto s delen en afbeeldingen video s hosten

 

[tirediron]

Hardly surprising - your setup isn't really designed to absorb vibration. I have seen LED panels sold as "daylight balanced" and "variable white balance", but I have no first-hand knowledge of them. Another option might be to fabricate a more sturdy shooting table. Something custom made out of heavy metal plate and sitting on thick rubber "feet" would definitely help. At the end of the day the Nissin units are cheap enough to definitely be worth trying.

 

[Niels123]

It isn't visible on the pictures, but I have a piece of wood that is sitting on heavy-duty sorbothane (you can google that if you like) feet designed to absorp vibrations. The problem is however, that it is nearly impossible to have a material that is also good in absorbing really low frequency vibrations (e.g. from cars passing by). At least in the 30 Hz to 20 kHz the absorption is great. On top of the wood is laying a steel plate of 20 kg onto which I have my setup. I can't think of anything doable that would be better. Yes, there is special optical tables weighing 600 kg and costing 10,000 usd, but this is not an option for my living room