No contract, now client wants originals

[AlanKlein]

If the deal was just show up and take pics, I’d deliver the finished jpgs as promised and call it done. If they still harp on originals explain that wasn’t part of the deal and see what happens.

Since the deal was verbal with the guy's mother, on a recommendation, you give the files for the pictures prints you furnished in addition to the prints. Most non-photographers in an engagement party would figure the files are included unless you told them they're not. He shouldn't play games after the fact. Next time, send a note to the buyer exactly what's included before you take the job. Since he didn't, now he should accommodate the customer because it's the right thing to do from a personal and business standpoint. Plus, they'll give recommendation for more work to their friends. There were 25 friends at the engagement party he photographed.

 

[AlanKlein]

Here's an idea. When you send the customer the prints, include a memory card with all the edited jpegs of the prints. Include a dozen business cards and ask him to give to his friends. A week later, send an email to him asking him to forward his email and site url (if he has one) to the customer's friends at the birthday party. Tell them he's available for their parties, engagements, baby pictures, etc. Any future deals, he should include written terms.

 

[vintagesnaps]

I agree with those who said they wouldn't provide originals. Photographers usually charge a lot for that. However if it was a specific event and I'd never want the photos again, then maybe I'd provide originals at a higher cost than JPEGs.

Sounds reasonable to provide JPEGs. You might need to explain why originals aren't being given and why that costs a lot.

For more info. and suggestions try ASMP or PPA.

 

[smoke665]

Give them what's reasonable since you didn;t spell out what you'd do for them in the first place. How many prints? What size? Data files? You're trying to nickle and dime them after the fact when they already paid you in full and you haven't given them a damn thing. It's unseeml

Well said my friend.

 

[santino]

How does it work there?

It is actually similar, I think I misunderstood your post I quoted. Offer and acceptance is necessary and sending money can be understood as implied acceptance. Off course it doesn’t say much about terms within the contract.

 

[smoke665]

It is actually similar, I think I misunderstood your post I quoted. Offer and acceptance is necessary and sending money can be understood as implied acceptance. Off course it doesn’t say much about terms within the contract.

Once compensation is accepted it becomes a verbal contract unless you spell out the terms in writing. Verbal contracts unfortunately go astray when there's nothing in writing to support them. That doesn't necessarily mean that you have to have a specific written contract with each transaction, provided there is other written documentation describing the service or product you are providing from which the buyer chooses to purchase.

 

[Original katomi]

Having read the posts, and I can’t comment on the issue
However, as this is not a business think about the tax issues esp if. You plan on doing other paid shoots

 

[ac12]

Having read the posts, and I can’t comment on the issue
However, as this is not a business think about the tax issues esp if. You plan on doing other paid shoots

If this is a business, do a Sched C.
You can write off or depreciate photo gear to offset the revenue.

Hobby revenue is treated different.

See your tax accountant.

 

[AlanKlein]

Once compensation is accepted it becomes a verbal contract unless you spell out the terms in writing. Verbal contracts unfortunately go astray when there's nothing in writing to support them. That doesn't necessarily mean that you have to have a specific written contract with each transaction, provided there is other written documentation describing the service or product you are providing from which the buyer chooses to purchase.

That's where my aforementioned email post comes in handy. It spells out the terms proposed or verbally agreed on without a signed contract. If the buyer follows up with a deposit after receiving the email, he in effect agreed to a written contract with the terms you specified in the email. It avoids disagreements later when memories fail.

 

[AlanKlein]

If this is a business, do a Sched C.
You can write off or depreciate photo gear to offset the revenue.

Hobby revenue is treated different.

See your tax accountant.

How is hobby revenue treated differently?

 

[pixmedic]

moving forward, ALWAYS have a written contract in place, whether money is exchanged or not.

As to the original post's concern, the wife and I did wedding and portrait photography for about 12 years and in that time we never gave RAW files, or any unedited photos, to anyone. ever. aside from the usual bits about time to delivery and money, our contract always had a stipulation that we did not, under any circumstances, hand over unedited photos, including, but not limited to, RAW files or unfinished JPEGs. Our contract also stated a minimum number of photos we would deliver (which we typically went over by default) and that no further files would be delivered past that. the biggest reason for that particular part was we charged based on how long we were needed for an event and how many pictures were to be delivered. more time or more pictures would cost more. this part of the contract also gave us some contractual protection from people that would demand "all the pictures that were taken". no sense in turning over blurry shots, missed shots, multiples, etc etc. only give out your best, finished product.

Digital photography was a lot newer on the scene when we got started and not many people even knew what a RAW file was back then so it was pretty rare that anyone asked about "original files". Even so, the few times it did come up we held to the terms of our contracts about not giving out unedited or unfinished photos.

TL;DR
Don't hand over ANY RAW files or unedited JPEGs. ONLY give out finished pictures that you are satisfied with. EVERY job needs a signed contract, paid or not.

 

[ac12]

How is hobby revenue treated differently?

See your tax accountant.

ALL income is subject to tax, unless specifically exempted in the tax code.
It is how it is handled on the tax return.
You don't put hobby revenue on a Schedule C. Schedule C is for a business.
I don't know where you put hobby revenue. It has been too long since I did that research.

 

[snowbear]

Back in the film days, customers didn't get the negatives. No reason digital should be any different.

 

[santino]

Back in the film days, customers didn't get the negatives. No reason digital should be any different.

That’s an excellent point! Even when the verbal contract did not mention what should happen with the raw files it is in the historical context unusual to give them away.

So don’t give them your raw files and in future sessions always set up a written contract.

 

[AlanKlein]

moving forward, ALWAYS have a written contract in place, whether money is exchanged or not.

As to the original post's concern, the wife and I did wedding and portrait photography for about 12 years and in that time we never gave RAW files, or any unedited photos, to anyone. ever. aside from the usual bits about time to delivery and money, our contract always had a stipulation that we did not, under any circumstances, hand over unedited photos, including, but not limited to, RAW files or unfinished JPEGs. Our contract also stated a minimum number of photos we would deliver (which we typically went over by default) and that no further files would be delivered past that. the biggest reason for that particular part was we charged based on how long we were needed for an event and how many pictures were to be delivered. more time or more pictures would cost more. this part of the contract also gave us some contractual protection from people that would demand "all the pictures that were taken". no sense in turning over blurry shots, missed shots, multiples, etc etc. only give out your best, finished product.

Digital photography was a lot newer on the scene when we got started and not many people even knew what a RAW file was back then so it was pretty rare that anyone asked about "original files". Even so, the few times it did come up we held to the terms of our contracts about not giving out unedited or unfinished photos.

TL;DR
Don't hand over ANY RAW files or unedited JPEGs. ONLY give out finished pictures that you are satisfied with. EVERY job needs a signed contract, paid or not.

Your contract is the way to do it. However, the OP had no contract. If he's looking to get references, maybe for the other 25 people who were at the party, he ought to be helpful and accommodating since the buyer has an argument that he was expecting the digital files (of the complete pictures at least). This is a business judgment the OP has to make. To stand on ceremony, to me, seems foolish at this point. What's the OP going to gain?