Not sure which camera to upgrade to. Suggestions?

JamieR · Apr 27, 2009

Hi everyone, i've just joined up to this forum.

I've always loved photography, and after studying it at college for 2 years i am in need of upgrading my camera. Currently i am using a Sony Cyber-shot 8.1MP digital and i would love to own a DSLR. The Sony is a great camera however it can't offer what a DSLR can.

I've saved up a bit of spare money and i am looking to spend in the region of about £700/£800 (I'm from to UK), this would cover the cost camera plus some sort of insurance.

I've been looking into two cameras. The Canon 450D and the Nikon D90, but I'm torn between the two. Is one better than the other? I've read mixed reviews on both.

Can anyone suggest any other cameras in my price range that i can look into?

Any help is much appreciated.
Thanks,
Jamie

LarryMartin830 · Apr 27, 2009

JamieR said:
Hi everyone, i've just joined up to this forum.

I've always loved photography, and after studying it at college for 2 years i am in need of upgrading my camera. Currently i am using a Sony Cyber-shot 8.1MP digital and i would love to own a DSLR. The Sony is a great camera however it can't offer what a DSLR can.

I've saved up a bit of spare money and i am looking to spend in the region of about £700/£800 (I'm from to UK), this would cover the cost camera plus some sort of insurance.

I've been looking into two cameras. The Canon 450D and the Nikon D90, but I'm torn between the two. Is one better than the other? I've read mixed reviews on both.

Can anyone suggest any other cameras in my price range that i can look into?

Any help is much appreciated.
Thanks,
Jamie

like i been saying i would go canon if i had to start over

ANDS! · Apr 27, 2009

Are you against buying used? If not, look into picking up a D200 or a 40D on the second hand market. This way more of your cash can go towards lenses, which is really what you should be looking at.

In2daBlue · Apr 27, 2009

LarryMartin830 said:
like i been saying i would go canon if i had to start over

After years of shooting Nikon I was in the same boat as you... Until Nikon came out with the D3 and the D700. Now, I feel whole again and don't believe my cameras are doing anything less than the competition.

If you can't afford the that pro-level camera though I might suggest Canon. Their consumer level gear seems still have a leg up on Nikon.

JamieR · Apr 27, 2009

I can't really afford much more than £700/800. I think i'll go down the lines of a Canon. If i was to buy a body only camera second hand, what general all rounder lenses would someone recommend? Something that would accommodate most situations?

This will be my first DSLR, so not sure on which lenses to look into. I do know i want a decent macro lens as i love close up photography.

I've been looking at a deal on a Canon 450D with comes with two lenses, EF-S 55-250mm IS f/4.0-5.6 lens and EF-S18-55mm IS f/3.5-5.6 lens. It will cost £650 (roughly $925). Is this a good deal?

And would some be so kind as to break down "EF-S 55-250mm IS f/4.0-5.6 lens" that for me please so i know what it all means.

Sorry for all the questions.

Cheers,
Jamie

Sherman Banks · Apr 27, 2009

Canon's releasing the T1i soon, which is supposed to be a step up from the XSi if you're getting serious. I personally like Nikon although I looked into Canon, but the feel of the D90 vs the XSi is so much more robust. I now own a D90 and a D60, and the D90 makes my D60 feel like a toy (and I thought the XSi felt like a toy already). You can mash out the specs all day but you may want to get them in your hands before you make the decision.

ANDS! · Apr 27, 2009

EF-S is the mounting system. It should work on the Canon 450D, but unlike Nikons lens system, Canon I believe changed things up and certain lenses don't work on certain cameras. I'm sure someone can go into more detail about that.

Those lenses though are pretty standard, but hey it's a start. 900 bucks though should get you going. I would still look at the used market. The camera used market isn't the same as others - generally the goods you are getting are going to be as good as new. This is especially true of lenses you buy. Its certainly your money and your peace of mind, but I wish I knew that when I started to purchase my first camera junk!

JamieR · Apr 27, 2009

ANDS! said:
EF-S is the mounting system. It should work on the Canon 450D, but unlike Nikons lens system, Canon I believe changed things up and certain lenses don't work on certain cameras. I'm sure someone can go into more detail about that.

Those lenses though are pretty standard, but hey it's a start. 900 bucks though should get you going. I would still look at the used market. The camera used market isn't the same as others - generally the goods you are getting are going to be as good as new. This is especially true of lenses you buy. Its certainly your money and your peace of mind, but I wish I knew that when I started to purchase my first camera junk!

This is my main worry. I don't want to buy 2nd hand incase the goods i recieve arn't up to scratch.

Like i said this is my first DSLR so i don't want to be spending thousands on gear. I suppose Nikon owners are going to advise me to buy a Nikon, and vice versa for Canon owners.

I'm going to take the advice and go and get a feel for the cameras and see which i prefer.

oh and does the fact that the D90 shoots HD video lessen its picture quality?

ANDS! · Apr 28, 2009

Modern dSLR's - image quality is pretty meaningless to the hobbyist. They all have awesome image quality. What you want to look for is ISO performance, and other bells and whistles that will make your use of the camera easier.

As for Canon vs. Nikon - Canon is cheaper, but Nikon will generally have the edge for overall "performance". But thats like saying whats faster, 250 mph or 240 mph. They are both fast. Ones just a bit faster.

As for spending money; if you aren't buying second hand - you are going to be spending money. This stuff doesn't get discounted from the retailers. There is no reason to.

Katier · Apr 28, 2009

JamieR said:
Hi everyone, i've just joined up to this forum.

I've always loved photography, and after studying it at college for 2 years i am in need of upgrading my camera. Currently i am using a Sony Cyber-shot 8.1MP digital and i would love to own a DSLR. The Sony is a great camera however it can't offer what a DSLR can.

I've saved up a bit of spare money and i am looking to spend in the region of about £700/£800 (I'm from to UK), this would cover the cost camera plus some sort of insurance.

I've been looking into two cameras. The Canon 450D and the Nikon D90, but I'm torn between the two. Is one better than the other? I've read mixed reviews on both.

Can anyone suggest any other cameras in my price range that i can look into?

Any help is much appreciated.
Thanks,
Jamie

I'd reccomend the Pentax K20D, admitadly I'm a Pentax fan but they really are excellent cameras in your budget range. Definatly better than the 450 ( which is more a K200D competitor ) and probably better overall than the D90.

Pentax's are solid workhorse cameras that can typically be had for less than the competition with a range of lenses that are at least ( often better ) as good as the competition but at less money.

You can also use old (but excellent) glass from the last 50 years as Pentax do an official M42 to K-Mount adapter so all M42 and K-Mount lenses work just fine (and all will have Image Stabilisation).

The K20D's only real negatives are poor live view ( something that few people use anyway ) and slow 'motor drive' (something I've never noticed on my K200D even though I often use it in that mode - really only going to be an issue if your doing a vast number of very fast action shots).

On the positive side, alongside the afformentioned lenses, you have the most solid weatherproofed body available in the price range, top panel LCD display ( something I find highly usefull), good control layout and excellent class leading RAW image quality. RAW also includes the open RAW format support.

That said the 450 and D90 are not BAD camera's, IMO the K20D overall is just a better camera and much better value for money to boot.

SRS microsystems (who are generally considered the best place for Pentax kit ) have for example the Pentax K20D Digital SLR Camera with Pentax 18-55mm II & Pentax 50-200mm Lenses for £679.00.

They don't have Canon's ( they do lenses but not the bodies ) but the D90 is £799 for Nikon D90 Digital SLR Camera with Nikkor 18-105mm VR lens.

Jessops ( who I'd never reccomend as a store but handy for a price check ) have the 450D for £615 in a similar bundle to the above K20D one but as I say it's not the competitor to the K20D (the K200D at SRS btw is £469 for Pentax K200D Digital SLR Camera Megabundle with Pentax 18-55mm MK2, Tamron 70-300mm Lenses, Case & 4gb Card)

Jessops have the D90 kit above at £799 btw.

Nearer to the K20D is the Canon 40D or 50D.

Jessops have the Canon EOS 40D + 17-85mm IS USM Lens at £829 and the 50D is obviously more.

inTempus · Apr 28, 2009

ANDS! said:
EF-S is the mounting system. It should work on the Canon 450D, but unlike Nikons lens system, Canon I believe changed things up and certain lenses don't work on certain cameras. I'm sure someone can go into more detail about that.

The EF-S mount is for 1.6x crop sensor cameras which is 90% of Canon's line-up (as you know). The regular EF lenses will work on any Canon camera, crop sensor or full-frame whereas the EF-S lenses will only work on crop sensor cameras like the Rebel, 40D and 50D.

So, if you buy a Rebel it can use every lens in Canon's lens line-up. A Rebel/40D/50D owner does not have to worry about lens compatibility. If at some point you buy a camera like a 5D Mark II then your EF-S lenses will no longer work for you.

flyin-lowe · Apr 28, 2009

You can get an Canon XS new with kit lens from several different sites for under $520.00 US. I have this camera and see more and more people buying it as an entry level DSLR. I have no complaints. I don't know how this price exchanges to your rate.

Dao · Apr 28, 2009

Jamie,

Both 450D and D90 are good cameras. If I were you, I will wait a little bit. When the new camera 500D from Canon comes out, it may drive the 450D price down a little bit. I know someone in Japan already got one (It is called Kiss X3 over there) and they like it. So I think it should be out very soon.

For limited budget situation, I will usually look at the mainstream cameras. Right now, it happens to be Canon and Nikon with Sony coming very strong as well. The advantage of going with the mainstream cameras is you can find good quality 3rd parties accessories and parts for those cameras easier.

Let take an example, Sigma, Tamron and Tokina are great companies that make great lenses for cameras for lower cost (compare to the OEM). You can expect their lenses will have a version for Canon and Nikon. And some for Sony. At least, when the lens available in the market, it is usually made for Canon or Nikon first.

Just like when Honda Civic is popular, you can find tons of aftermarket performance parts for it.

Of course, if you are planning to just get the camera and not expecting to grow your system, any entry level DSLRs are a good choice. After all, you are the one who produce the nice photos, the camera is just the tool.

If you know someone know a lot about DSLR camera stuff, that person maybe able to help you on buying a use camera and save some money. The Canon 40D was introduced in late 2007. If you find a used one available, it could be less than or close to one year old. According to the review from Canon Digital SLR Camera and Lens Reviews at The-Digital-Picture.com, the 40D has a shutter life of 100,000 vs 50,000 of 400D/350D (450D is the same class of the 400D, so I expect the same).

In general, I think (could be wrong) a lightly used 40D should last longer than a new XXXD camera (Your miles may vary). But then again, it is hard for a beginner to buy used equipment because you do not know what to look for. If you know someone can help you on that, you can get a better system for the same amount of money.

Good luck!

inTempus · Apr 28, 2009

JamieR said:
Like i said this is my first DSLR so i don't want to be spending thousands on gear. I suppose Nikon owners are going to advise me to buy a Nikon, and vice versa for Canon owners.

oh and does the fact that the D90 shoots HD video lessen its picture quality?

This is the best idea. I would compare features, controls, and even take some pictures if you have a camera shop that allows you to do that near by.

Nikon vs. Canon is like a religious war. At the consumer level I would place Canon ahead of Nikon, this is the level you're looking to purchase at. If you're going to compare apples to apples, you might want to look into the new Canon T1i vs. the Nikon D90. They're direct competitors whereas the 450D is last years model.

The T1i will have HD video if you want such a feature. The inclusion of HD video does not lessen the image quality of still pictures at all in either the D90 or the T1i.

Remember, when you buy a camera you're buying into a whole system. Price out accessories in your area including lenses to see what it's going to cost you in the long run to add to your kit.

Here's the nomenclature break-down:

EF-S: This is the mount system used to mount the lens to the body. There are currently two types offered by Canon EF and EF-S. This shouldn't be of a concern to you right now since the cameras you're looking at can make use of both EF and EF-S lenses.

55-250mm: This is the focal length of your lens, which in this case is variable. The bigger the number, the more "zoom" the lens has. With this particular lens, at the low end, you have 55mm. This is adjustable by turning a ring on the lens itself to 250mm. This will make the image larger (the more you increase the focal length). 55-250mm is a pretty good range.

IS: This stands for "image stabilization". This features allows you to compensate for shaky hands or "camera shake". It allows you to use a slower shutter speed than you would normally be able to with a lens that lacks IS. It's a nice feature.

f/4.0-5.6: This is the aperture size. The aperture is what controls the amount of light that hits your sensor. The smaller the number, the more light you get to your sensor and the faster shutter speed you can use. This one is varialble. At your shortest focal length (55mm) the max apeture size is 4.0. At your longest focal length (250mm) your max aperture size is 5.6. This lens is not what would be considered a "fast" lens, or a lens that would be suitable for low light situations. You'll need to use a flash in poorly lit rooms or outside when there isn't much ambient light to get a proper exposure.