**NSWF** Is this photo too 'spring break-ish / girls gone wild' for pro use?

[bogeyguy]

Holy nipples!

 

[Scatterbrained]

WeePete, I think the issue here is that you're putting more thought into this than I've seen from the OP so far. Beyond that, curators and collectors usually want something new that challenges convention. All you have to do is Google search "4 wheeler" and "boobs" and you'll be bombarded with images of girls, 4 wheelers, and boobs. Or you could just watch a "Girls Gone Wild" video. My point being that the material is out there. Is it done as well as the OP's shot? I don't know, I'm not going to spend a bunch of time searching for boobs on the internet to find out, being married and all. . . . . . . . . I think that the point is, the OP tried to draw a correlation between his work and that of Bresson that many feel just isn't there. That doesn't mean that the image isn't good, but I just can't see a curator or collector buying it.

 

[weepete]

Scatterbrained - I agree mate, however that gets us into another debate about intension and whither a piece of art could be interpreted in a way that the artists doesn't mean. I'm also having a debate with along similar lines with one of my friends in "real life" which means I need to verbalize my opinions and solidify my reasoning. So this kind of thing helps me think these things out.

I just think that there may be more to this photo than first impressions and I think it has been dismissed a bit to easily after I saw it.

 

[Scatterbrained]

Scatterbrained - I agree mate, however that gets us into another debate about intension and whither a piece of art could be interpreted in a way that the artists doesn't mean. I'm also having a debate with along similar lines with one of my friends in "real life" which means I need to verbalize my opinions and solidify my reasoning. So this kind of thing helps me think these things out.

I just think that there may be more to this photo than first impressions and I think it has been dismissed a bit to easily after I saw it.

Either way, as an artist, if you want your work to be taken seriously by the taste makers in the art world you have to do more than just take the pictures. You have to ascribe a layer of metaphysical pretense to the work. Even if they don't get it, they won't admit they don't get it; instead they'll buy it to look like they get it.

 

[weepete]

I'd add that if you Google boobs and 4 wheeler none on the first few pages also have the context that is in this shot. In fact I'd say that this image is not about boobs, or the quad. Its about how women are seen in our lives. And that's us that shape and define that, to suggest that there is not a story behind this pic is like saying that HB's pic is just another kid in the street. The real question is does it get people's back up because of the reference to HB (and you can't compare your photos with the recognised masters), or because its about a story we don't want to talk about.

 

[weepete]

Mate, sorry I wrote that last post before you wrote that last one. And you've got it. Its all about the sell! You can read just about anything in any artwork, how you present it and justify it is key

 

[Ilovemycam]

The thing is, it's not the cut off feet that make that image significant, so telling us we should see the relationship between the images through the cut off feet is quite an ask. The boy in the image has an exuberant expression and posture that exude happiness and self confidence, a mood that is significant as the shot itself was done in France right after the war; it both captures a decisive moment while also portraying in it the mood of the country at the time.

The exact same could be said for my shot.

But the HCB shot came to my attention during a lecture. It was distinguished for cut off foot syndrome at the presentation. But my photo must rest on more than a name. It is just a sidenote I added for those that can appreciate it.

I didn't mean it to be a puzzle at all. Maybe the lecture ruined my looking at it the name issue objectively. I will have to do a poll with some people I meet asking them if they get the name relationship. In any case, I wont change the name. It would just help clarify the name question for me.

 

[Ilovemycam]

What makes HCB's shot work is precisely that we don't understand the boy's expression and manner. We are free to imagine a world of possibilities, we can write our own narrative to surround and support the picture.

This is not true of the picture shown here. The surrounding narrative is obvious, to the point of crystal clarity. We know pretty much exactly what is in everyone's minds in the shot. And this is, precisely, why it doesn't work. There's no there, there. Yes, it's a moment, captured. So what? I just had a moment, ooops, there went another, and another. Why do I care about *that* moment? What is interesting about *that* moment, as opposed to the one before it and after it? We've heard what makes it special, quite precisely -- the girl's tits are not visible in those other moments.

That's not enough to sell a picture to a museum, or to me.

No you don't know everything about the photo. We can see that from the wrong comments about the photos that were stated in this thread. Your ego is in control and destroys your ability to look at anything in an objective light AM.

I am not trying to sell you anything. If a person does not like my photo, no problem. But I asked a question if this photo fits my portfolio.

 

[Ilovemycam]

Cover up her boobs ans what is there that makes it interesting?

What is wrong with the boobs out?

 

[Ilovemycam]

But the social commentry is, there have been tons of artists who have explored the attitude towards women in society and I'd argure that this could well sit along side them while also providing a bit of commentry on where we are nowadays. There are still questions about this photo that run along the vein that you are suggesting: Is it symtomatic of a society that places so much emphasis on appearance and conforming to the beauty clique that she needs to go further to feel attractive? Does the prevalence of this kind of party image change attitudes towards women given that we're so keen to dismiss this as some other lass with her tits out? There is a lot more that could be discussed about this image.

I'll give you that it's not in the same class as HB's work, however as a shot it still has merit. If Van Gough or others only painted the stuff that people wanted or museums wanted to show at the time we wouldn't have half the valued art we do now. I'd suggest that any work, if it can get us to examine what we as a society are doing now is more valuable than what has been done in the past.

My early 1970's work may have some historical value. When you add time value to a photo a nothing photo can become a good one sometimes. Back in the early 70's few people in my photo had tats or piercings. That is what stood out to me when I look at them.

 

[Ilovemycam]

Holy nipples!

Yea, that gal has some beautiful nipples. But I have to keep this on a professional level. It is just a 'bonus' to the shot.

 

[Ilovemycam]

WeePete, I think the issue here is that you're putting more thought into this than I've seen from the OP so far. Beyond that, curators and collectors usually want something new that challenges convention. All you have to do is Google search "4 wheeler" and "boobs" and you'll be bombarded with images of girls, 4 wheelers, and boobs. Or you could just watch a "Girls Gone Wild" video. My point being that the material is out there. Is it done as well as the OP's shot? I don't know, I'm not going to spend a bunch of time searching for boobs on the internet to find out, being married and all. . . . . . . . . I think that the point is, the OP tried to draw a correlation between his work and that of Bresson that many feel just isn't there. That doesn't mean that the image isn't good, but I just can't see a curator or collector buying it.

As I said, the nipples are a bonus. But they help make the photo as well. If the gal was just smiling with her top on I would not have brought up this thread. But nudity alone is not why I opened up the discussion. I was just wondering about the overall look of the photo and how it fit my body of work.

And if I was just about nipples, my portfolio would reflect that point. We can look at the photogs body of work to get an insight into their mind and 'way of looking' at the world. Kinda like the art therapy they use with kids to get them to draw or paint their issues.

I am not trying to sell this or any of my work - I am just try to place it Selling photos to a museum is very hard. (Impossible for me) Just placing them as a gift is hard enough. I don't actively work to sell to collectors, I only work with museums and rare book libraries.

Collectors want a big name photog. I don't have a big name. I only started to promote my work 7 months ago. If I started to promote 43 years ago I may have more of a name. Prior to 7 months ago I never cared to promote myself. I loved freezing time and not promotion. Promotion ruins photography for me, it is very time consuming.

But it sunk in as I am getting older I needed to archive some of my work. My family wont do it for me, they will do the opposite with it when I die. I hope to be done with promotion by year end. At least with the majority of the 'hard' promotion job. It takes a lot of time to settle placements with museums. Many people and egos involved.

 

[weepete]

That may be an interesting idea for a series mate. You could mibbies try putting similar shots of similar people together, a sort of then and now comparison.

 

[Ilovemycam]

I'd add that if you Google boobs and 4 wheeler none on the first few pages also have the context that is in this shot. In fact I'd say that this image is not about boobs, or the quad. Its about how women are seen in our lives. And that's us that shape and define that, to suggest that there is not a story behind this pic is like saying that HB's pic is just another kid in the street. The real question is does it get people's back up because of the reference to HB (and you can't compare your photos with the recognised masters), or because its about a story we don't want to talk about.

Sure, anyone can compare anything to anything. Don't limit yourself.

In my case, I am only saying it is 'in the style of' HCB. It is also a homage to HCB and every street shooter that cuts off part of the picture. With street shooting, even if you only get 75% to 85% of the shot you can sometimes still be a success. If HCB saw the photo he may hate it. Maybe he hates nudes? Maybe something else. Does not matter, we can't run out lives on what others like. I don't place any limits on a photo. Either it is good or not. The only photos I hate are boring ones.

 

[Ilovemycam]

Scatterbrained - I agree mate, however that gets us into another debate about intension and whither a piece of art could be interpreted in a way that the artists doesn't mean. I'm also having a debate with along similar lines with one of my friends in "real life" which means I need to verbalize my opinions and solidify my reasoning. So this kind of thing helps me think these things out.

I just think that there may be more to this photo than first impressions and I think it has been dismissed a bit to easily after I saw it.

Either way, as an artist, if you want your work to be taken seriously by the taste makers in the art world you have to do more than just take the pictures. You have to ascribe a layer of metaphysical pretense to the work. Even if they don't get it, they won't admit they don't get it; instead they'll buy it to look like they get it.

I am very simple. I am not about metaphysical pretense. It is not me. Maybe I would get into it if it was a natural part of my makeup...but it is not. I always have to laugh at all the high-brows that read things into art, almost working overtime to create fantasies out of it. Maybe that is the fascination with art? Maybe it is part of the overthinkers syndrome? I don't know.

I am working with the UK right now. About 195 museums to review to contact. When I look at the list I can see the vast majority are little town museums that I wont bother with. Seems everyone needs to have an 'art escape' of one sort or another. Art must serve some sort of important purpose with us humans.