Paper lightshades, what light bulb to use?

[480sparky]

If someone had a sense of how 'bright' a 1,000 watt tungsten-filament lamp was, then that person could be led to believe that the 100 watt LED would product the same 'brightness'.

Do you mean say, a 100 LED fixture that has one hundred, three-Watt, super-efficient LED's positioned very close to highly reflective material that produces 90% reflective efficiency, as opposed to running 1,000 Watts of electricity through a teenty-tiny length of filament?

Not sure why you're referring to one hundred 3-watt LEDs, and why you're comparing it to a 1,000-watt incandescent. I never mentioned anything about 300-watt LED lights.

Because you seem to be uninformed about HOW MUCH LIGHT LED fixtures are capable of putting out, and you seem to be ignoring the fact that LED arrays typically have hugely-efficient reflector material, extremely close to the lamps themselves, and because your posts consistently seem to be minimizing LED lights and the performance they tend to produce. I have a 9-led flashlight, with four, 4-Watt bulbs and it produces bright,bright, bright light, and has lasted three years on one set of AA batteries. A 100-watt LED fixture can easily surpass the light output of a 1,000 watt bulb of old-timey technology in some 1920's style reflector.

You mentioned 100-Watts LED and 1,000 Watts t-f, and left the impression that the old-timey technology is the better tech. It's not necessarily, not in 2017. You set up a strawman at the top of your post. I tore your strawman down. You framed the discussion incompletely. Fixed it for you. You wrote: "If someone had a sense of how 'bright' a 1,000 watt tungsten-filament lamp was, then that person could be led to believe that the 100 watt LED would product the same 'brightness'."

That's a bogus comparison. I detailed the equivalent type of gear to your strawman 1,000 Watt t-f lamp...an inexpensive 100-bulkb count LED array. Your strawman was the erquivalewnt of something like a 1,000 Watt tungsten-fiulament lamp, and "five little 20-Watt-bulb nightlights". Youset up the "gravel truck vs barbie Corvette" comparison....I went on to set a more-accurate comparison between like-for-like, not The Hulk vs Schoolboy.

I hope that explains why you were confused: because the comparison you put forth was misleading. For example, 500-Watt photofloods put out LESS light than typical $40 made in China 100-LED lights. And your example 1,000 Watt tungsten filament lamps" these produce BLINDINGLY-harsh light that leaves retinal burn-in if the lamp is even glanced at for a second without diffusion material over it, while LED arrays typically are 1,000-times or more greater in actual AREA, producing light that is orders of magnitude softer, and more-usable for photography, right out of the box.

Your 1,000 Watt tungsten-filament is blinding because the filament is LESS_THAN the area of a match stick shaft, while the LED array is larger, and has more reflector material, is cooler, uses 20x less energy, and so on. "Brightness" alone is not to be confused with suitability for photography use; otherwise, we'd all be lugging arc welders around. The Lowell Omni-Light and Tota-Light lines of light, using tungsten-filament lighting...I've used them...they SUCK unless they are heavily, heavily diffused, with utterly brutal shadows and incredibly bare, bald specular highlights.

Focusing in on your 1,000 Watt tungsten filament vs 100-Watt LED strawman, the fact is that the 1,000- tungsten lamp will need a good three to four stops of diffusion to make light that is even workable for photography....thus rending it the virtual equivalent of an undiffused, LARGER-AREA 100-Watt LED light unit. My point was probably missed by not writing all this out, so people could see that we need to look at the "nature" of a 1,000 Watt tungsten filament lit up like the Sun, versus 100 Watts of light that is actually suitable for photography.

it's not the brightness necessarily: it is the suitability for actual use (harshm,unbworkable light that needs heavy diffusion vs ready-to-use lighting; battery life? 1,000-Watt T-F? Car Battery, 8 hours, 100-Watt LED, Car Battery, Days of runtime; hot enough to burn flesh or set the house on fire, or cool to the touch LED?,etc).

Ummm... it's totally obvious you really didn't read my posts. Set your drink down and go back and read them.

If there's something you don't understand about them, feel free to ask me.

 

[gayle23]

Cheap is not always the best. If you can afford it, start getting some flash units. Either studio strobes or speedlights. In addition to those, diffusers that are designed to work with whichever type you get.

The reason is that light bulbs (even the big ones) don't really put out enough light for portraiture.

As for the white balance, if you capture the Raw files, you can easily adjust the WB in post-capture editing for the correct colors.

Yes, I can imagine that if all you had was a table lamp with a shite lampshade, you could get some really flattering portraits, but everybody moves, so don't expect the photos to be without motion blur.

As to which exact light bulb color to get; shoot in Raw, and don't worry about what color the light is, just don't have several different colors of light in the same shot.

If your model can sit perfectly still, try the ordinary kind of light bulbs and see what you get. It can be done, although there might be a bit of motion blur.[/QUOTE]

Ok thanks for that. I guess I'm worried about spending money on all the wrong stuff as I don't really know much about any of and don't have a lot of time to spend learning. Generally would studios have windows and make use of the window light or is it best not not mix the outdoor window light with the lighting setup in the studio. I know that might sound like a dumb question! Like I said I have a large shed that it would be good to make use of.

 

[gayle23]

Gayle, it's not so much about the light bulb, than the tools you use for shaping the light, so any bulb would do.
However, some have more light output than others and are therefore easier to use for not so high ISO shots.
They usually get much hotter though which might make it more difficult to use light shaping tools.
In general hot bulbs (glow wire) have a more complete spectrum (similar to the sun) and are easier to white balance. Incadescent lights and LEDs can have weird color casts that are difficult to white balance.
Don't let manufacturers fool you. Some LED and Incadescence manufacturers give you equivalent wattage. They are ALL wrong. I own(ed) so many of them, and they are much less bright than their specs would suggest.

Thank you, I guess I'm not going to get very directional soft light just from a round paper lightshade. Maybe I should invest in a soft box and some proper lights. Bit scary about lights getting to hot with me using a paper lightshade. Seriously don't want to burn down my shed.

 

[gayle23]

You want Edison base bulbs, or screw-in electronic flash units that use the Edison base.

Edison Screw Camera Flash Bulbs and Tubes | eBay

Electronic FLASH units that screw in have ben used for literally decades. In a windowless room, you will of course, need some light to see what's happening.

Thnks you, I will look them up on ebay/amazon in the UK. Shame that Harvard course got taken down, I've been watching the Mark Levoy lessons you recommended. Ouch! That stuff is really hard going.

 

[gayle23]

If you are using a lampshade you also need to be aware of where the light is going.

If you look at a regular lightbulb the light is spread essentially 360 degrees around the entire thing, minus the bottom part. So on a lampshade you are essentially only getting less than about 20% of that light being emitted towards the subject. With CFLs it's even worse as the twisted tube has light going all over the place including back onto itself, thus those are even worse at emitting directed light. With projection designed bulbs (LED, incandescent, etc) you get light pointed towards the subject closer to 100%. A strobe bulb emits light around but also is designed for a diffuser which helps direct that light forward. A speedlight is designed to put the light forward, not up, to the side or through the back, just like a flashlight.

So with lampshades be aware of how the light is being directed (or not) towards the subject. Thus the bulbs light output could be a fraction of what is stated on the subject. Of course in a room that non-direct light could also bounce off the walls/ceiling. In the end the camera is getting the reflected light off the subject, not the scattering of light all over the place.

Also, wasn't Brooke Shadens original attempts, while in film school, at using artificial lights in a paper lantern (not lampshade). This is actually kinda create a nice soft light to use. Of course she had to use a hotter lightbulb because the light was 360. Also, looking at her galleries she uses PhotoShop to the extreme.

Thank you this is very helpful. Yes I meant lantern light shade thing, the sphere shaped ones, they are only a couple of pounds. Yes I've been watching her using photoshop in tutorials, I never knew that half that stuff could be done! She adds in directional light and stuff. I don't have photoshop and wouldn't have a clue how to use it. So what would you recommend if I were to buy some proper lights for a basic not expensive studio set up in my shed, speedlights or strobe? I just want a set up so I can start experimenting with light and learning how it works for portraits. Now it's so so cold outside I'm finding I'm not taking so many outdoor portraits in nice light so want to experiment indoors. Thank you

 

[Derrel]

As far as learning lighting/starting lighting using continuous lights...it's got plusses--in WYSIWYG lighting, but the negatives in heat, and low power, and the need to shoot at slow shutter speeds...I dunno...I think inexpensive monolight studio flashes ($49,$69,$89,$99, $120 per unit) is easier in the long run, plus flash units have modifiers available. Honeycomb grids, barn doors sets, different reflectors, all those things make lighting control a lot easier for the monolight flash user.

 

[Designer]

Ok thanks for that. I guess I'm worried about spending money on all the wrong stuff as I don't really know much about any of and don't have a lot of time to spend learning. Generally would studios have windows and make use of the window light or is it best not not mix the outdoor window light with the lighting setup in the studio. I know that might sound like a dumb question! Like I said I have a large shed that it would be good to make use of.

We've (probably) all done that.

No, don't mix types and colors of lighting unless you're going for that uneven-color thing. (I wouldn't) For portraiture, you want to end up with three (or more) strobes putting out the same color of light.

About the easiest way to spend money on the wrong stuff is to get cheap and keep on getting cheap.

Start looking at some brand-name strobes. Yes, they're expensive, but they will last a long time, and you can get adapters for them. Perhaps you only get one per year, so in three years you will have a nice setup.

You will need some light stands and modifiers, so budget for those.

 

[Derrel]

And as far as paper as a diffuser material: vellum or tracing paper, has long been used as a diffuser. it will work well with either flash, or continuous lighting. Look on YouTube for tutorials. Other materials, like TuffSpun, milk jug, window screening in one-,two-, or three-thickness stacks, etc.. lots of things can be used to diffuse lights. The old "Japanese Lantern" type light modifier has been around for a long time.

As Designer mentions above, there's a balance between going cheap, and going name-brand. Electronic flash units range from "economy" monolights at $49-$69, with NON-replaceable flashtubes; the next level is the Adorama Flashpoint 320M at $99 for a roughly 160-Watt-second flash with a user-replaceable flash tube. Consider that in actual tests, the 320M has more flash power than an Alien Bee 400, and is about the same power as the Alien Bee 800.

With flash, you will not be in that 1/6 to 1/15 second blur danger zone that so,so many low-powered continuous lights will force upon you.

 

[Designer]

So what would you recommend if I were to buy some proper lights for a basic not expensive studio set up in my shed, speedlights or strobe?

Studio strobes run on mains power, so you're limited to the shed. Speedlights run on battery power so you can take them afield. Strobes produce more light, and they have a modeling light built in, which aids in positioning the lights before the shot. Speedlights produce less light, but they are easy to pack into your camera bag and always have something with you.

I have one of each type; a Nikon SB-910 speedlight and an inexpensive strobe ($49 USD).

 

[gayle23]

So what would you recommend if I were to buy some proper lights for a basic not expensive studio set up in my shed, speedlights or strobe?

Studio strobes run on mains power, so you're limited to the shed. Speedlights run on battery power so you can take them afield. Strobes produce more light, and they have a modeling light built in, which aids in positioning the lights before the shot. Speedlights produce less light, but they are easy to pack into your camera bag and always have something with you.

I have one of each type; a Nikon SB-910 speedlight and an inexpensive strobe ($49 USD).

Thank you. What are mono lights in comparison to Strobes? I just went on the adorama site to look about and just end up getting so confused! If I bought say one a year like you said is there a lot you can do with just one light or do you kind of need the 3 light (key light/fill lights and light behind) set up to do anything really good?

 

[gayle23]

Can anyone recommend any trustworthy/decent brands to look at buying a strobe or speedlight in the UK?

 

[Designer]

What are mono lights in comparison to Strobes? I just went on the adorama site to look about and just end up getting so confused! If I bought say one a year like you said is there a lot you can do with just one light or do you kind of need the 3 light (key light/fill lights and light behind) set up to do anything really good?

Some strobes use a power pack that sits on the floor, and powers several heads, with cables that run to the lights. Mono lights include a power pack in each head with a mains lead for power.

Yes, you can do quite a lot with one light. There are tutorials on the internet that show you how.

 

[Designer]

Amazon.co.uk: Flashes - Camera & Photo: Electronics & Photo: Shoe Mount Flashes, Macro & Ringlight Flashes & More

Simply too many to choose from. Start by narrowing your search by price, brand name, type, etc. Or just look at all of them if you have the time.

 

[Derrel]

What are mono lights in comparison to Strobes? I just went on the adorama site to look about and just end up getting so confused! If I bought say one a year like you said is there a lot you can do with just one light or do you kind of need the 3 light (key light/fill lights and light behind) set up to do anything really good?

Studio electronic flash units, powered by mains electricity (or, DC battery packs) are commonly called "studio flashes", or "studio strobes" in 2017; Bowens and Elinchrom are good brands in the UK. These have a flash tube, and a bright modeling lamp that can be switched on, or off. The modeling lamp provides light to focus by, and to preview the effects of the final flash that will snap the image. Perices range for $49 US to $159 US for low end; $189-$499 for medium grade; up to $2,499 for very high-end units.

Speedlights, or on-camera flash units, or shoe-mount typoe flashes are sometimes called "Strobes", mostly by older people in their 50's and 60's. These typically LACK the contiunuously-on modeling lamp of studio flash units. Some more expensive mocels offer a bright, stroboscopic "modeling light" feature that can be accessd for 5 to 6 seconds, to peview mostly shadows and where they will fall. Yongnuo, Mieke,Metxz, Canon, Nikon, Samyang, Bower, are some brands of these.

 

[gayle23]

What are mono lights in comparison to Strobes? I just went on the adorama site to look about and just end up getting so confused! If I bought say one a year like you said is there a lot you can do with just one light or do you kind of need the 3 light (key light/fill lights and light behind) set up to do anything really good?

Studio electronic flash units, powered by mains electricity (or, DC battery packs) are commonly called "studio flashes", or "studio strobes" in 2017; Bowens and Elinchrom are good brands in the UK. These have a flash tube, and a bright modeling lamp that can be switched on, or off. The modeling lamp provides light to focus by, and to preview the effects of the final flash that will snap the image. Perices range for $49 US to $159 US for low end; $189-$499 for medium grade; up to $2,499 for very high-end units.

Speedlights, or on-camera flash units, or shoe-mount typoe flashes are sometimes called "Strobes", mostly by older people in their 50's and 60's. These typically LACK the contiunuously-on modeling lamp of studio flash units. Some more expensive mocels offer a bright, stroboscopic "modeling light" feature that can be accessd for 5 to 6 seconds, to peview mostly shadows and where they will fall. Yongnuo, Mieke,Metxz, Canon, Nikon, Samyang, Bower, are some brands of these.

Brilliant thank you, I will do a bit of research but it's good to have some recommended brands.