Photo Challenge Voting Poll - February 2011 "Self-Portrait"

[swilliams]

Ok, lets use this challenge as an example. What's asked for is a self portrait. If not sure what that is look up the definition. And within the parameters of that definition come up with a photo. Now youre saying that by being forced to confine yourself to the definition of a self portrait that that is stalling creativity. Well how about sticking to the definition and being forced to be more creative? The point Im trying to make is that when there is a challenge and if the subject is a dog, there are people who will submit their cat, a bird, or a 56 Plymouth. And if I'm miffed as you say, Im not sure what it is over......the people who submit those things or the mods here who allow them in the challenge in the first place. If I was running this I would return the pics to those people and tell them that is not what was asked and to do it again. After seeing the attitudes of some people here Id say the challenges should just be whatever you like and most popular pic wins. Just dont ever pick a subject as that is completely arbitrary. Now that I know that I know what to expect now. So no more miffing from me.

It´s this kind of argument that makes people not to participate in these kind of contests. For me the point was to try to participate in something that would have anything to do with me while being or trying to be a photographer. That was my interpretation about it… If I knew that participating I was taking the chance of being called stupid or something like that I wouldn´t definitely participate.
Congrats… I believe You just took the fun of it for a lot of people…

I believe "idiot" was the term used by Bynx. Sure makes me want to participate in any contest on this forum....NOT!!

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Nah. Participate! It makes the place more fun!

It is sad to see 51 images, and 50 votes!

 

[gulfman1]

My comments were started after the close of the photo submission. They are only to be voted on. Im sorry to hear that you feel, that because you cant submit anything you want, in spite of being asked for something in particular, is spoiling your fun. Maybe next time it will be a free for all.

If you really think about it unless you are able to cover all the exceptions (and that is very difficult, not to say impossible) the more you try to limit the more you open holes in your definition. That’s just how words imperfections against thoughts are noticed.
Sometimes when you are “too close” to something you miss the “whole picture”. But that´s just my opinion.
I thank, and analyze yours. That’s it! It´s not better or worse than mine. Its different!

 

[gulfman1]

Ok, lets use this challenge as an example. What's asked for is a self portrait. If not sure what that is look up the definition. And within the parameters of that definition come up with a photo. Now youre saying that by being forced to confine yourself to the definition of a self portrait that that is stalling creativity. Well how about sticking to the definition and being forced to be more creative? The point Im trying to make is that when there is a challenge and if the subject is a dog, there are people who will submit their cat, a bird, or a 56 Plymouth. And if I'm miffed as you say, Im not sure what it is over......the people who submit those things or the mods here who allow them in the challenge in the first place. If I was running this I would return the pics to those people and tell them that is not what was asked and to do it again. After seeing the attitudes of some people here Id say the challenges should just be whatever you like and most popular pic wins. Just dont ever pick a subject as that is completely arbitrary. Now that I know that I know what to expect now. So no more miffing from me.

It´s this kind of argument that makes people not to participate in these kind of contests. For me the point was to try to participate in something that would have anything to do with me while being or trying to be a photographer. That was my interpretation about it… If I knew that participating I was taking the chance of being called stupid or something like that I wouldn´t definitely participate.
Congrats… I believe You just took the fun of it for a lot of people…

Don't stress Gulfman, submitting a photo to a contest that was your interpretation is not stupid at all... What makes art great is that it's not bound by definition. I don't know which shot was yours, but I would gladly give you an honest opinion on it if you want. Oh and one last thing, calling out shots openly during voting is absolutely classless, and its grounds for disqualification on another site that I participate on. I would like to see that rule implemented here. Steering the voters in any direction is certainly not fair...

Well, I can´t agree with you on this one… I don´t believe that if you make a general remark about some photos without specify any specific kind or group of photos while the poll is open that can be seen as classless. As a matter of fact I don´t see how that could be considered as steering voters in other direction, opposing to expressing your opinion. And it seems to me that if the organization thought so the comments would be closed during poll or at least it should be made brought to attention.
Anyway, I’m a rookie in this kind of contests and my main goal is to try to learn as much as I can (and I definitely believe I could learn about photography with you), but, with all due respect, it seems that you´re competing for a prize of a million! It´s definitely not my case…

 

[Sirashley]

It´s this kind of argument that makes people not to participate in these kind of contests. For me the point was to try to participate in something that would have anything to do with me while being or trying to be a photographer. That was my interpretation about it… If I knew that participating I was taking the chance of being called stupid or something like that I wouldn´t definitely participate.
Congrats… I believe You just took the fun of it for a lot of people…

Don't stress Gulfman, submitting a photo to a contest that was your interpretation is not stupid at all... What makes art great is that it's not bound by definition. I don't know which shot was yours, but I would gladly give you an honest opinion on it if you want. Oh and one last thing, calling out shots openly during voting is absolutely classless, and its grounds for disqualification on another site that I participate on. I would like to see that rule implemented here. Steering the voters in any direction is certainly not fair...

Well, I can´t agree with you on this one… I don´t believe that if you make a general remark about some photos without specify any specific kind or group of photos while the poll is open that can be seen as classless. As a matter of fact I don´t see how that could be considered as steering voters in other direction, opposing to expressing your opinion. And it seems to me that if the organization thought so the comments would be closed during poll or at least it should be made brought to attention.
Anyway, I’m a rookie in this kind of contests and my main goal is to try to learn as much as I can (and I definitely believe I could learn about photography with you), but, with all due respect, it seems that you´re competing for a prize of a million! It´s definitely not my case…

Oh don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with making general remarks about images... but in one of the posts, the 3 images with the most votes were directly called out, well at least 2 of the three... and that's not right... Other shots were mentioned specifically as well. It could influence the way that people vote, and that's not fair. Its not about the prize, or even placing 1,2,or three. Its about making sure that voters vote on how the image impacted them, not how it impacted someone else. Personally, I would like to the voting results withheld until the end of the challenge. That way, no one knows who is winning until the end. I think it would keep it more interesting... Just my two cents though, I don't think you would like it if someone said that your image (specifically) didn't meet the topic while voting was still open, its really no better than coming on and saying, "Vote for image 5 because it meets the challenge the best..." We can agree to disagree if you like

 

[Bynx]

Im with you 100%. It might not have been right to point out the top 3 pics, however that changed as voting continued. Nothing should influence anyone's voting and Id like to see the results at the end when its over. Then we can grumble. But I see quite a number of really good self portraits that didnt get a vote, while at the same time some are voting for pics that should have been disqualified. Its not fair in my opinion to those people who did a good job and how discouraging is that? So I guess this is just a popularity contest and not one based on the aspects of ones entry.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Popularity contest? Really?


But please, do post more of your insight. It's verrrrry interesting.

 

[Bynx]

Bitter Jeweler I wish you would spend half the effort to make comments on peoples photo entries than you do making useless comments on my opinions. I see many entries begging for someone to say something. There are many legitimate self portraits being ignored here. Not even everyone who has posted a pic has voted. This is a really strange forum.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Bitter Jeweler I wish you would spend half the effort to make comments on peoples photo entries than you do making useless comments on my opinions. I see many entries begging for someone to say something. There are many legitimate self portraits being ignored here. Not even everyone who has posted a pic has voted. This is a really strange forum.

I don't see the contest forum as a place to critique images.
There's the difference, I don't see images begging for anyone to say anything.
Portraits being ignored? Because they weren't voted for?
How do you know who voted and who didn't?
I'll give you this...I did NOT vote. Soooo sorry. Is this a sin or against the rules?
Are you going to pretend that all the votes are only from the entrants? Is there proof of this?

Do go on.

 

[Sirashley]

Bynx I completely agree with you when you say we should be leaving comments and critiques, but the problem is that those comments can be seen by the voters in voting. After voting is when comments should be made, but let's be real, its hard enough to get people to come here and vote, let alone get them to come back to comment after the contest...Although this site is not perfect, I invite you to check out the other site I participate in. I try not to prop up other sites on here, but the sake of this argument

DPChallenge - A Digital Photography Contest



I think as far as challenges go, this website has really got a great hold on it. You vote on entries on a 1-10 basis, you can comment on the entires, but only the photographer can see them until the challenge is over. If you enter a photo of a rock in a self-portrait challenge, you will get 15 comments that say "DNMC" which is "Does Not Meet Challenge", your image will be torched, and you will finish last place somewhere in the 3.5 vicinity. You also are not allowed to vote on your photo. Lastly, there is no prize, other than the coveted Virtual Ribbon. The competition is steep and many on the site are professionals who make a living at photography and have more value in gear than my car is worth...The beauty of this site is that everyone gets feedback on their images and its a great tool for learning, albeit it requires some thick skin...

Oh and I got my first ribbon for second place a few weeks back with this entry

The Hermit by Sirashley - DPChallenge


So that's why Bynx, I have suggested before that we go to a system where every photo gets a vote of 1-10 and the highest average wins. That way, everyone gets feedback on their image. Unfortunately, I don't think its possible with this forum. You are right when you said that its sad that people took very good self-portraits and didn't receive a vote. I don't care what kind of shot it is, its discouraging not to get a vote, but that's kinda the limitation we have, and you have to understand that when you enter that you may not get a single vote.

 

[Bynx]

The problem when trying to explain oneself here is the loss in translation. When I mentioned making comments I was referring to Bitter Jeweler taking the time to post a comment on my opinion, rather than being more productive and making a comment on someone's photo posted elsewhere in the site. I have been a member of a similar challenge setup as DPChallenge. Comments made were only seen by the photographer. The comments Ive made here would have been made to those specific people who posted pics which arent what was asked for. Ive been around for a while and just get tired of people doing whatever they want when something specific is asked of them. I seem to be in a minority about that since some seem to disagree and feel its okay to post whatever you want as long as you are having fun. It just saddens me to see a couple of really good self portraits having 1 vote at best when they should clearly be in the top 2 or 3 spots. And what with the lack of voting. As Bitter Jeweler said -- 51 entries and 50 votes. Where is member participation? Even if you didnt vote and you are a member, what harm does it do to vote? I hope at the last minute things pick up and those people get some recognition. By the way thanks for that link. Ive bookmarked it and plan to join later.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Maybe YOUR time would be put to better use commenting on photos where people are asking for critique, than complaining about 3 images that don't fit YOUR defintion of a self portrait in this contest.

BTW, things won't "pick up" at the last minute, since the poll is closed, as stated in the first post of the thread.


I also think it's pretty ballsy to complain about entries before the poll was closed, and the tell me, basically, that I am not allowed to reply with my opinion about what you have said.

 

[Chris of Arabia]

With so many submissions for this Challenge, it was always going to be difficult to get a clear cut winner, however I think we succeeded regardless.

In first place we have tomdinning with

In joint 2nd place we have Bynx with

and Renata-Brazil with

Thanks to everyone who took part or voted in this Challenge and special congratulations go to our winner. A PM will be in the post to you shortly.

Good luck to everyone for the March Challenge and give the April comp a go to everyone.View attachment 3240

 

[tomdinning]

Sorry I'm a bit late in replying. Life seems to be getting away from me. Too much time behind the camera.
Thanks for the votes and complement. I'm sure it was for the image and not for the face.
I've read through the comments throughout this forum and find them interesting.
Portraits, especially self-portraits is what I do a lot of. The portraits are for other people and the self-portraits are for teaching purposes and self expression.
Contrary to what Bynx implies, there is no 'definition' of a portrait. In a competition you can stipulate conditions but that's not 'defining'. Stating 'usage', 'common practise' and 'application' is what we do when we look for a 'definition'. That's why dictionaries have a variety of meanings for a single word and those meanings change with time.
In the 180 years or so people have been taking pictures of people the concept of a portrait has evolved. We do understand that the face is an important part of knowing who a person is but its not the only way. Parts of the face, parts of a recognisable body, an action, a concept (like a shadow) can all portray a person. The mere suggestion of who a person is can now be acceptable as a portrait.
I'm sure Bynx means well and it may be easier for him to identify a portrait if he sees a face but prescribing such rigid parameters on a simple exercise as this prevents us from seeing what people can do with an idea. Its not about creativity. People will be creative without this forum. This is about sharing ideas. Bynx might take on board the broad scope of portraiture if he looks at what others perceive and not fix himself with the narrower perspective he is demonstrating.
Thanks guys.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Congrats Tom!

And excellent post.