Photographing US federal buildings

[skieur]

Homeland Security Bulletin on Photographers and Federal Buildings

 

[Braineack]

What's the point of this link? It's an old article and nothing new/profound.

 

[skieur]

The issue has come up numerous times on this site along with MISINFORMATION that taking such photographs is illegal.

 

[Designer]

Occasionally some security guard will attempt to squelch any random photographer, but if you stay within the guidelines in the printed rule, you can assert your rights. However, asserting one's rights with the wrong kind of guard can get you a lot more trouble than you want.

 

[Steve5D]

Occasionally some security guard will attempt to squelch any random photographer, but if you stay within the guidelines in the printed rule, you can assert your rights. However, asserting one's rights with the wrong kind of guard can get you a lot more trouble than you want.

It's unwise to believe that you know more than "some security guard". Once he decides he has reasonable suspicion, what you believe your "rights" to be is, by and large, meaningless...

 

[Braineack]

It's unwise to believe that you know more than "some security guard". Once he decides he has reasonable suspicion, what you believe your "rights" to be is, by and large, meaningless...

I like watching JC Playford do just that:

 

[Stevepwns]

Occasionally some security guard will attempt to squelch any random photographer, but if you stay within the guidelines in the printed rule, you can assert your rights. However, asserting one's rights with the wrong kind of guard can get you a lot more trouble than you want.

It's unwise to believe that you know more than "some security guard". Once he decides he has reasonable suspicion, what you believe your "rights" to be is, by and large, meaningless...

Thats actually not true at all.

There are multiple jurisdictions pertaining to federal building here in DC. The road, the sidewalk and the buildings (including the entrance ways) The security guard only has jurisdiction on the actual property of the building and no more. Once you are on the sidewalk their jurisdiction ends and have no power or authority to you. It is public space and completely legal. Should they put their hands on you for any reason outside of the buildings property line they are wrong... period. Security guards have ZERO authority on public property. Security gaurds need more than just reasonable suspicion and then you must be on the grounds of that specific building for them to have any authority over you what so ever, and even then all they can do is make you leave you are not being violent and not posing a threat.

DO NOT PICK A FIGHT WITH THEM

DO NOT LET YOURSELF BE BULLIED BY THEM If you walk away they can not chase you and if you are on public space eg. the sidewalk, they have no authority over you. Just walk away. If they detain you and put you on the grounds of the building, that is assault and false imprisonment.

Where it gets fuzzy, is where the beginning of the sidewalk is and the building grounds begin. Each building is different.

If you ever come in contact with an ******* security guard, walk off the curb if you can into the street. They have ZERO authority there. Go to another building as fast as you can and call FPS (Federal Protective Services) they will come and take a report if you request and deal with the matter.

The only thing they have the right to do is require you to not use a tri-pod, thats it. period.

That is fact.

 

[Steve5D]

Occasionally some security guard will attempt to squelch any random photographer, but if you stay within the guidelines in the printed rule, you can assert your rights. However, asserting one's rights with the wrong kind of guard can get you a lot more trouble than you want.

It's unwise to believe that you know more than "some security guard". Once he decides he has reasonable suspicion, what you believe your "rights" to be is, by and large, meaningless...

Thats actually not true at all.

There are multiple jurisdictions pertaining to federal building here in DC. The road, the sidewalk and the buildings (including the entrance ways) The security guard only has jurisdiction on the actual property of the building and no more. Once you are on the sidewalk their jurisdiction ends and have no power or authority to you. It is public space and completely legal. Should they put their hands on you for any reason outside of the buildings property line they are wrong... period. Security guards have ZERO authority on public property. Security gaurds need more than just reasonable suspicion and then you must be on the grounds of that specific building for them to have any authority over you what so ever, and even then all they can do is make you leave you are not being violent and not posing a threat.

DO NOT PICK A FIGHT WITH THEM

DO NOT LET YOURSELF BE BULLIED BY THEM If you walk away they can not chase you and if you are on public space eg. the sidewalk, they have no authority over you. Just walk away. If they detain you and put you on the grounds of the building, that is assault and false imprisonment.

Where it gets fuzzy, is where the beginning of the sidewalk is and the building grounds begin. Each building is different.

If you ever come in contact with an ******* security guard, walk off the curb if you can into the street. They have ZERO authority there. Go to another building as fast as you can and call FPS (Federal Protective Services) they will come and take a report if you request and deal with the matter.

The only thing they have the right to do is require you to not use a tri-pod, thats it. period.

That is fact.

My use of the word "security guard" was merely quoting what had been said previously.

There are security officers who have the power of arrest. If you're on their property, and flee to get off their property, they still can (and will) detain you until police show up. Also, it's becoming much more common these days for security personnel to be off duty police officers. This may come as a shock to you, but you can be arrested by an off duty police officer.

The jurisdiction of FPS is Federal property. If you run away, they're not going to concern themselves with you, for two reasons:

1) You've left their property, which is what was desired in the first place, and
2) The have no jurisdictional responsibility to question you or take your statement on property for which they've no responsibility

It's much easier to simply choose not to be a dick, like J.C Playford...

 

[Stevepwns]

It's unwise to believe that you know more than "some security guard". Once he decides he has reasonable suspicion, what you believe your "rights" to be is, by and large, meaningless...

Thats actually not true at all.

There are multiple jurisdictions pertaining to federal building here in DC. The road, the sidewalk and the buildings (including the entrance ways) The security guard only has jurisdiction on the actual property of the building and no more. Once you are on the sidewalk their jurisdiction ends and have no power or authority to you. It is public space and completely legal. Should they put their hands on you for any reason outside of the buildings property line they are wrong... period. Security guards have ZERO authority on public property. Security gaurds need more than just reasonable suspicion and then you must be on the grounds of that specific building for them to have any authority over you what so ever, and even then all they can do is make you leave you are not being violent and not posing a threat.

DO NOT PICK A FIGHT WITH THEM

DO NOT LET YOURSELF BE BULLIED BY THEM If you walk away they can not chase you and if you are on public space eg. the sidewalk, they have no authority over you. Just walk away. If they detain you and put you on the grounds of the building, that is assault and false imprisonment.

Where it gets fuzzy, is where the beginning of the sidewalk is and the building grounds begin. Each building is different.

If you ever come in contact with an ******* security guard, walk off the curb if you can into the street. They have ZERO authority there. Go to another building as fast as you can and call FPS (Federal Protective Services) they will come and take a report if you request and deal with the matter.

The only thing they have the right to do is require you to not use a tri-pod, thats it. period.

That is fact.

My use of the word "security guard" was merely quoting what had been said previously.

There are security officers who have the power of arrest. If you're on their property, and flee to get off their property, they still can (and will) detain you until police show up. Also, it's becoming much more common these days for security personnel to be off duty police officers. This may come as a shock to you, but you can be arrested by an off duty police officer.

The jurisdiction of FPS is Federal property. If you run away, they're not going to concern themselves with you, for two reasons:

1) You've left their property, which is what was desired in the first place, and
2) The have no jurisdictional responsibility to question you or take your statement on property for which they've no responsibility

It's much easier to simply choose not to be a dick, like J.C Playford...

No Federal Security Guard is an off duty police officer. It is considered a conflict of interest. All Security Guards in Washington DC are contractors. They all work at specific locations and it is their full time jobs. They are over seen by FPS. If you call FPS with a complaint against one of their guards, they must take your statement and write a report. Regardless of where you are currently located. I am a Security Specialist for the EPA and have experience with this first hand. "Security Guards" are just as worthless as your local shopping mall guards. They have almost no authority unless you are in their building.

Now if you are at the White House or the Capital..... you better do what you are told.

 

[Steve5D]

No Federal Security Guard is an off duty police officer. It is considered a conflict of interest.

Um... Okay. I never said they were.

I was talking about "security guards" in general. Many are off duty police officers...

I am a Security Specialist for the EPA...

Fabulous.

I'm Buzz Aldrin, Astronaut...

Now if you are at the White House or the Capital..... you better do what you are told.

Why is that? Why the double standard? How do you justify that?

 

[Stevepwns]

No Federal Security Guard is an off duty police officer. It is considered a conflict of interest.

Um... Okay. I never said they were.

I was talking about "security guards" in general. Many are off duty police officers...

I am a Security Specialist for the EPA...

Fabulous.

I'm Buzz Aldrin, Astronaut...

Now if you are at the White House or the Capital..... you better do what you are told.

Why is that? Why the double standard? How do you justify that?

1. All guards at federal buildings are "federal security guards"
2. Are you implying I am not being truthful? Its my job I dont care if you believe me or not.
3. Those 2 building are guarded by Capital Police and Secret Service Uniformed Division and you WILL get arrested if you start trouble.

 

[Designer]

There are none so paranoid as our elected politicians.

 

[unpopular]

Skieur is just upset over of a conversation we had a million years ago about whether a US Marshal had the right to question me when I inadvertently trespassed on a Federal courthouse while photographing for a client.

For what it's worth, if you inadvertently trespass on federal property, you will be detained for questioning. But Skieur seems to think that should not be the case. As a Canadian, he sure gets his pants in a twist over the issue.

 

[Steve5D]

There are plenty of people who, when approached by security/law enforcement and asked a few questions, act like they've been subjected to a beating.

I've been approached by security/law enforcement personnel a handful of times and asked who I'm shooting for. Oddly, I've never felt accosted, harassed, bothered or offended. Not once did I feel like my civil rights were being trampled. When asked, I answered, and that was that. I didn't spout off laws like that idiot in the video did. I didn't write down badge numbers or ask them if they knew the law. I simply said "I'm shooting for ________", and that was that.

Cops have to deal with dicks all day long. You would be amazed at how far not acting like one will go...