Polarizer for ultra-wide angle lens

[SCraig]

Hi Scraig, all threads I'd be using this on would be 77mm.

77mm -> 86mm step-up ring and 86mm filter. Anyone ever tried that?

 

[Buckster]

Helluva lot

I like to be thorough when I can.

just to counter someone's "I would guess" statement.

Seriously? You want to play word games in bold red text now? What, still smarting from the last time you tried to stick a fork in me over having a grip on a body while shooting macros? Fine. Let me help you with parsing the actual statements made:

If you're shooting UWA, the regular one will be almost useless;

"Will be" is quite definitive, especially to someone looking for info.

in fact, I would guess you could even start to see vignetting at 20mm;

"In fact" is quite definitive, especially to someone looking for info. "I would guess", the only part you referred to, ignoring everything else as if I wouldn't, is only in reference to "you could even start to see vignetting at 20mm" and, as it turns out, he would, unfortunately, "guess" incorrectly.

certainly in the 10-12mm range, it's going to be very bad.

"Certainly" isn't ambiguous and "It's", as a contraction, becomes "it IS" "going to be very bad", which is another very definitive statement.

Overall, the general impression left is that he knows what he's talking about on this subject, and therefore the OP should take his advice and get the thin version. Then, you reinforce that position by jumping in with a post saying he should choose the thin one as well and, of course, you also leave the impression that you know what you're talking about.

Okay folks! Case closed! Two long-time forum members with LOTS and LOTS of knowledge have now weighed in, and the definitive answer has been delivered! YAY!!!

Parse words like "guess" all you want, but that's the overall impression delivered, and I'm pretty sure you're smart enough to know it.

But as it turns out, it's not true that the Canon 10-22mm EF-S with a regular size B+W polarizer will cause the vignetting problems that he, you or anyone else says it will, as the actual photos I shot and posted prove. Obviously, that means that anyone saying such things isn't speaking from actual experience or knowledge of those actual products that the OP laid out in his question. They can't be.

Now then, that said, this post as I continue will hopefully answer as to why I seem to be somewhat aggressive in my responses at times, since that has also come up. See, my focus here isn't really about this particular lens or filter. It's about something much broader.

Why do some folks answer with such conviction and projected authority when they don't actually know what they're talking about on an issue? Does it make them feel smarter or superior or something because they think people will follow their advice, or what? What's it all about? I just don't get it. Passing on bad info is a waste of everyone's time who reads it, and a waste of money for anyone who heeds that bad advice. Then how many more come and read the thread in the future? The wasted time and money just keeps building, silently, as others who don't know any better find it through searches, take it to heart, and also act upon it without questioning these "experts".

And so it seems to me that when they don't actually know the answer, but pretend they do, the only thing getting satisfied is the ego of whomever is passing out the bad into. Nobody else actually benefits at all; Just the opposite, in fact.

If they'd bit their tongue instead while waiting for someone WITH actual knowledge to answer, or at least say something like, "I don't know from first hand experience, but I've heard_____", it doesn't mean they don't know anything at all, just that they don't know this one thing. There's no shame in that. We should all be able to freely and honestly admit that there are FAR more things each of us doesn't know than there are things we DO know. Again, there's no shame in it at all, so no reason to lie about it or try to pretend we're more knowledgeable than we really are.

But usually, once they've committed to a position, even a wrong one, if you point it out or have a different opinion, they'll dig in to the ends of the Earth defending their "guess" anyway, and usually push even harder as though they're the expert and you just don't know what you're talking about.

So I posted the big, fat photos in this thread in the hopes that it would be the end of it, and we could all learn something. I thought maybe a few people would think to themselves, "gee... maybe I should just sit tight and learn something when I don't really know, instead of weighing in as though I'm an expert..." And yet, wishy-washy language persists that seems to indicate that there may still be a vignetting issue, but "I can't get to my files right now to prove it". And of course, the excuses begin, "on a different, but VERY SIMILAR, lens than the one in question (implication being that it should be about the same result), it causes vignetting so bad, just throw those shots away." Well, we're not asking about that other lens though. The question is about X, and we get an answer to Z, but without the initial explanation that it's not an answer to X, as if there's no difference, until it's pointed out with actual evidence that the given answer doesn't fit - THEN we find out it's Z and not X, but it's supposedly basically the same thing, after all. For shuck's fakes, just give it up already...

Look, there are plenty of times when I think I know what the answer will be to a question that comes up simply because I have a fundamental understanding of surrounding issues or similar circumstances, or I've read or heard it a bunch of times. But I also know that I really don't know for sure because I don't have first hand knowledge, nor have I seen the actual evidence from someone else that proves it one way or the other. When that happens, I do my best to just bite my tongue, subscribe to the thread to track responses, and wait for someone who DOES know to answer and provide resources to back it up, and then I learn something from it. That's one of the great things I love about internet forums - someone is bound to actually KNOW the answer, and can PROVE it, and then anyone paying attention learns from it. From that, I've got a mental list of several people that I've come to trust here, and I'd be SERIOUSLY surprised if I EVER saw them post something that wasn't true.

Then there are times when, even though I don't actually know the answer when I first read the question, I realize that I have everything needed to do the testing myself and get the answer, share it, and we can all benefit from it. That's what I did here.

I apologize if my response while doing so had some smarm mixed in with it, or seemed aggressive. I admit that I find it frustrating to see bad information being passed around, especially by folks that I think should have more integrity and therefore act more responsibly than that. Frankly, I'd like to guilt them just a little tiny bit; Just enough for them to stop doing it going forward, but not enough that it starts a fight. It would be a lot easier and a lot more beneficial to everyone if they'd just stick to what they really know when they decide to jump in and answer a question, rather than to correct them or watch them be corrected time after time when they're just faking it.

Sparky, I love much of your work, and I'd love to have some of the specialized gear you have for my own work. I have no interest in maintaining some ongoing spitting match just because you seem to have gotten the short end of a trivial issue regarding a grip on a body while shooting macros recently, so you really should just move on to more productive things than trying to stick a fork in me like this.

Of course, that's all just my opinion though. YMMV.

 

[Derrel]

Dude...are you telling us that everything we read on the interwebz has the potential to be bogus info??? Are you suggesting that some of the stuff on here is....wrong info? ZOMG...I feel awful!!!!!!!!!


(runs screaming from the room, hands over eyes...)

 

[Buckster]

Buckster, although your means are a bit "aggressive", I can't argue with the end result! Thank you very much for running this test. This is extremely useful information for me and others who will have the same question in the future.

Always glad to help if I can. :thumbup:

Do you recommend the multi-resistant coating, or is single coating adequate? There's a price difference, so I thought I should pose the question here.

I can't answer with actual testing, as I don't have both to make a valid comparison. I suspect that the multi-resistant coating will perform better and, for me, that's worth the additional cost. It'd be very interesting to see a good comparison of the two. If you run across one, be sure to post a link to it!

 

[Buckster]

Dude...are you telling us that everything we read on the interwebz has the potential to be bogus info??? Are you suggesting that some of the stuff on here is....wrong info? ZOMG...I feel awful!!!!!!!!!


(runs screaming from the room, hands over eyes...)

See? That's why you're one of the people I trust! You know when to run, screaming!! LOL!!

 

[tirediron]

Buckster: You've proven me wrong. I admit it. I've apologized for posting a statement which I cannot support which counters one you have clearly supported. OKAY! E-freakin'-nuff already! I GIVE!

 

[Buckster]

Buckster: You've proven me wrong. I admit it. I've apologized for posting a statement which I cannot support which counters one you have clearly supported. OKAY! E-freakin'-nuff already! I GIVE!

I hereby withdraw my wagging finger!

Seriously though, it seemed like as good a time and place as any to get that broader point off my chest. Didn't mean for you to be a punching bag in the process.

We generally agree, but when we don't, I prefer Dos Equis! Stay thirsty, my friends! :mrgreen:

 

[480sparky43 42]

Helluva lot

I like to be thorough when I can.

just to counter someone's "I would guess" statement.

Seriously? You want to play word games in bold red text now? What, still smarting from the last time you tried to stick a fork in me over having a grip on a body while shooting macros? Fine. Let me help you with parsing the actual statements made:

"Will be" is quite definitive, especially to someone looking for info.

in fact, I would guess you could even start to see vignetting at 20mm;

"In fact" is quite definitive, especially to someone looking for info. "I would guess", the only part you referred to, ignoring everything else as if I wouldn't, is only in reference to "you could even start to see vignetting at 20mm" and, as it turns out, he would, unfortunately, "guess" incorrectly.

certainly in the 10-12mm range, it's going to be very bad.

"Certainly" isn't ambiguous and "It's", as a contraction, becomes "it IS" "going to be very bad", which is another very definitive statement.

Overall, the general impression left is that he knows what he's talking about on this subject, and therefore the OP should take his advice and get the thin version. Then, you reinforce that position by jumping in with a post saying he should choose the thin one as well and, of course, you also leave the impression that you know what you're talking about.

Okay folks! Case closed! Two long-time forum members with LOTS and LOTS of knowledge have now weighed in, and the definitive answer has been delivered! YAY!!!

Parse words like "guess" all you want, but that's the overall impression delivered, and I'm pretty sure you're smart enough to know it.

But as it turns out, it's not true that the Canon 10-22mm EF-S with a regular size B+W polarizer will cause the vignetting problems that he, you or anyone else says it will, as the actual photos I shot and posted prove. Obviously, that means that anyone saying such things isn't speaking from actual experience or knowledge of those actual products that the OP laid out in his question. They can't be.

Now then, that said, this post as I continue will hopefully answer as to why I seem to be somewhat aggressive in my responses at times, since that has also come up. See, my focus here isn't really about this particular lens or filter. It's about something much broader.

Why do some folks answer with such conviction and projected authority when they don't actually know what they're talking about on an issue? Does it make them feel smarter or superior or something because they think people will follow their advice, or what? What's it all about? I just don't get it. Passing on bad info is a waste of everyone's time who reads it, and a waste of money for anyone who heeds that bad advice. Then how many more come and read the thread in the future? The wasted time and money just keeps building, silently, as others who don't know any better find it through searches, take it to heart, and also act upon it without questioning these "experts".

And so it seems to me that when they don't actually know the answer, but pretend they do, the only thing getting satisfied is the ego of whomever is passing out the bad into. Nobody else actually benefits at all; Just the opposite, in fact.

If they'd bit their tongue instead while waiting for someone WITH actual knowledge to answer, or at least say something like, "I don't know from first hand experience, but I've heard_____", it doesn't mean they don't know anything at all, just that they don't know this one thing. There's no shame in that. We should all be able to freely and honestly admit that there are FAR more things each of us doesn't know than there are things we DO know. Again, there's no shame in it at all, so no reason to lie about it or try to pretend we're more knowledgeable than we really are.

But usually, once they've committed to a position, even a wrong one, if you point it out or have a different opinion, they'll dig in to the ends of the Earth defending their "guess" anyway, and usually push even harder as though they're the expert and you just don't know what you're talking about.

So I posted the big, fat photos in this thread in the hopes that it would be the end of it, and we could all learn something. I thought maybe a few people would think to themselves, "gee... maybe I should just sit tight and learn something when I don't really know, instead of weighing in as though I'm an expert..." And yet, wishy-washy language persists that seems to indicate that there may still be a vignetting issue, but "I can't get to my files right now to prove it". And of course, the excuses begin, "on a different, but VERY SIMILAR, lens than the one in question (implication being that it should be about the same result), it causes vignetting so bad, just throw those shots away." Well, we're not asking about that other lens though. The question is about X, and we get an answer to Z, but without the initial explanation that it's not an answer to X, as if there's no difference, until it's pointed out with actual evidence that the given answer doesn't fit - THEN we find out it's Z and not X, but it's supposedly basically the same thing, after all. For shuck's fakes, just give it up already...

Look, there are plenty of times when I think I know what the answer will be to a question that comes up simply because I have a fundamental understanding of surrounding issues or similar circumstances, or I've read or heard it a bunch of times. But I also know that I really don't know for sure because I don't have first hand knowledge, nor have I seen the actual evidence from someone else that proves it one way or the other. When that happens, I do my best to just bite my tongue, subscribe to the thread to track responses, and wait for someone who DOES know to answer and provide resources to back it up, and then I learn something from it. That's one of the great things I love about internet forums - someone is bound to actually KNOW the answer, and can PROVE it, and then anyone paying attention learns from it. From that, I've got a mental list of several people that I've come to trust here, and I'd be SERIOUSLY surprised if I EVER saw them post something that wasn't true.

Then there are times when, even though I don't actually know the answer when I first read the question, I realize that I have everything needed to do the testing myself and get the answer, share it, and we can all benefit from it. That's what I did here.

I apologize if my response while doing so had some smarm mixed in with it, or seemed aggressive. I admit that I find it frustrating to see bad information being passed around, especially by folks that I think should have more integrity and therefore act more responsibly than that. Frankly, I'd like to guilt them just a little tiny bit; Just enough for them to stop doing it going forward, but not enough that it starts a fight. It would be a lot easier and a lot more beneficial to everyone if they'd just stick to what they really know when they decide to jump in and answer a question, rather than to correct them or watch them be corrected time after time when they're just faking it.

Sparky, I love much of your work, and I'd love to have some of the specialized gear you have for my own work. I have no interest in maintaining some ongoing spitting match just because you seem to have gotten the short end of a trivial issue regarding a grip on a body while shooting macros recently, so you really should just move on to more productive things than trying to stick a fork in me like this.

Of course, that's all just my opinion though. YMMV.

Um, WHO needs to move on? I got a news flash for ya: I 'moved on' a long time ago.

 

[Buckster]

Um, WHO needs to move on?

IKYABWAI

 

[480sparky43 42]

IKYABWAI

Someone who really knows how to take the fun out of forum, that's who.

 

[Buckster]

IKYABWAI

Someone who really knows how to take the fun out of forum, that's who.

I see. You find it fun to post bogus information when you have no clue in order to feed your ego, and I take away that fun when I point out in public that you're full of it.

Golly, I'm so terribly sorry I've ruined your fun! Even worse, it's going to keep happening unless you stop posting bogus info and getting caught!

Your turn. :mrgreen:

 

[usayit]

In my case, 12mm on a full frame using a 77mm polarizer on a clear sunny day yielded very uneven polarization... I trashed the frames.

 

[Majeed Badizadegan]

In my case, 12mm on a full frame using a 77mm polarizer on a clear sunny day yielded very uneven polarization... I trashed the frames.

Any way to avoid this?

 

[480sparky43 42]

In my case, 12mm on a full frame using a 77mm polarizer on a clear sunny day yielded very uneven polarization... I trashed the frames.

Any way to avoid this?

Not much. It's a function of the way polarizers work in relationship to the sun in the sky. They affect the blue sky the most 90° from the sun. The further you get from this 90° arc, the less affect the polarizer has, and the lighter the sky will be rendered. You might be able to correct this in post.

I say MIGHT in hopes of avoiding another 3-page dissertation.

 

[markj]

Rotanimod, take a moment and read this: It may give you a little insight. Polarizing filters test - Results and summary - Lenstip.com