Problem with Sunny 16 Rule

[70to210mmf4]

The last roll of film I shot came back from the lab badly underexposed. It's the first time the light meter in the camera has failed me. I read about the sunny 16 rule and thought I would try it out on my digital camera in the same location to see what's going on. I set the camera to the same ISO and used the sunny 16 rule for the other settings and it's still very underexposed with these settings.

It was a bright sunny day (as you can see in this picture by the shadows in the grass) and I used ISO 200 at f/16 and shutter speed 1/200. Does anyone have a suggestion as to why it's so underexposed?

 

[RVT1K]

I actually had to google that, I've never heard of it before.

Where were you metering, the bright area or the shadow? Spot meter, center-weighted, or matrix? If the camera was matrix metering (at least that's what Nikon calls it) it's trying to make the best of a mixed exposure and compromising everything. Maybe the bright foreground caused the camera to bring that down at the expense of the trees?

 

[480sparky]

The last roll of film I shot came back from the lab badly underexposed. It's the first time the light meter in the camera has failed me. I read about the sunny 16 rule and thought I would try it out on my digital camera in the same location to see what's going on. I set the camera to the same ISO and used the sunny 16 rule for the other settings and it's still very underexposed with these settings.

It was a bright sunny day (as you can see in this picture by the shadows in the grass) and I used ISO 200 at f/16 and shutter speed 1/200. Does anyone have a suggestion as to why it's so underexposed?
View attachment 175647

The grass, which is sun-lit, looks well-exposed. The 'Sunny 16' rule is a guideline on where to start adjusting exposure from, not a set-in-stone one-size-fits-all setting.

I actually had to google that, I've never heard of it before.

Where were you metering, the bright area or the shadow? Spot meter, center-weighted, or matrix? If the camera was matrix metering (at least that's what Nikon calls it) it's trying to make the best of a mixed exposure and compromising everything. Maybe the bright foreground caused the camera to bring that down at the expense of the trees?

Using the 'Sunny 16' rule implies one doesn't have a meter. It originated in the early days of photography when light meters didn't exist.

 

[RVT1K]

I actually had to google that, I've never heard of it before.

Where were you metering, the bright area or the shadow? Spot meter, center-weighted, or matrix? If the camera was matrix metering (at least that's what Nikon calls it) it's trying to make the best of a mixed exposure and compromising everything. Maybe the bright foreground caused the camera to bring that down at the expense of the trees?

Using the 'Sunny 16' rule implies one doesn't have a meter. It originated in the early days of photography when light meters didn't exist.

An external meter.

Doesn't the camera in question have an internal meter? If so isn't the camera going to make decisions based on what that meter is seeing.

And how is that "rule" going to work with such a mixed exposure?

 

[480sparky]

I actually had to google that, I've never heard of it before.

Where were you metering, the bright area or the shadow? Spot meter, center-weighted, or matrix? If the camera was matrix metering (at least that's what Nikon calls it) it's trying to make the best of a mixed exposure and compromising everything. Maybe the bright foreground caused the camera to bring that down at the expense of the trees?

Using the 'Sunny 16' rule implies one doesn't have a meter. It originated in the early days of photography when light meters didn't exist.

An external meter.

Doesn't the camera in question have an internal meter? If so isn't the camera going to make decisions based on what that meter is seeing.

And how is that "rule" going to work with such a mixed exposure?

One does not need a meter (internal or external) to use the Sunny 16 rule. It's merely a number based on the ISO used to estimate the shutter speed set to get close to a 'correct' exposure. Put your camera in M, set the ISO to 100, the shutter speed to 1/100 and the aperture to f/16.

Ignore the meter.

Start firing away.

The grass in the center of the image, which is in bright sunlight, IS reasonably well-exposed. S16 isn't a guarantee... it's a starting point. It is up to the photographer to recognize there's lots of shadows in the scene and adjust the exposure accordingly.

 

[jcdeboever]

Sparky pretty much nails it. I use the rule quite often as I own a Nikon F, and F2 with non metered prisms. I look at 3 things in the scene in shooting... light, shadow, subject. Film speed is the starting point at f/16 on a sunny, cloudless day. Go out with your digital and work it using the rule. Guess, take image, evaluate. Spend some time with it, you will get good at it. Understanding light is one of the most advantageous things to learn in photography. I am not bragging but I shoot enough and practiced the above to tell you that I don't even carry a meter. If I get stumped, its time to pull out the flash. Granted, I am not always 100% but most of the time I can fix in the dark room or in post. Remember, C-41 and B&W negative film have a lot of latitude to work with.

 

[Derrel]

Problem could be that the lens is stopping down a little bit too much. Although you might have set the aperture tof/16 if the diaphragm stops down1/4 of a millimeter too much f/16 in effect becomes f/22.

You are correct: your photo does look somewhat under exposed. I would try a different f-stop rather than f/16..

 

[480sparky]

Problem could be that the lens is stopping down a little bit too much. Although you might have set the aperture tof/16 if the diaphragm stops down1/4 of a millimeter too much f/16 in effect becomes f/22.

You are correct: your photo does look somewhat under exposed. I would try a different f-stop rather than f/16..

The shutter could be running a bit fast as well. 1/200 might actually be 1/250 or 1/300.

 

[Derrel]

Remember if you shoot in raw, with most new modern cameras you can lift the exposure up quite a bit and post processing is a good place to correct mistakes.

 

[Derrel]

Regardless of what the causes, your original exposure appears to be insufficient for the scene at hand.

 

[webestang64]

When I use the 16 rule I would bracket 2 more shots each one a step over. Better to be over than under.

 

[ronlane]

Remember if you shoot in raw, with most new modern cameras you can lift the exposure up quite a bit and post processing is a good place to correct mistakes.

Agreed, you can pull out a lot of detail with modern camera and software.

When I use the 16 rule I would bracket 2 more shots each one a step over. Better to be over than under.

does step = stops? You shoot a bright sunny day 2 stops over exposed and you will have to combine it to an HDR image because most of the time the highlights will be gone, blow away.

 

[webestang64]

does step = stops? You shoot a bright sunny day 2 stops over exposed and you will have to combine it to an HDR image because most of the time the highlights will be gone, blow away.

Yep, I meant stop. And this method is for film (the OP said film), not digital.

 

[70to210mmf4]

The last roll of film I shot came back from the lab badly underexposed. It's the first time the light meter in the camera has failed me. I read about the sunny 16 rule and thought I would try it out on my digital camera in the same location to see what's going on. I set the camera to the same ISO and used the sunny 16 rule for the other settings and it's still very underexposed with these settings.

It was a bright sunny day (as you can see in this picture by the shadows in the grass) and I used ISO 200 at f/16 and shutter speed 1/200. Does anyone have a suggestion as to why it's so underexposed?
View attachment 175647

The grass, which is sun-lit, looks well-exposed. The 'Sunny 16' rule is a guideline on where to start adjusting exposure from, not a set-in-stone one-size-fits-all setting.

I actually had to google that, I've never heard of it before.

Where were you metering, the bright area or the shadow? Spot meter, center-weighted, or matrix? If the camera was matrix metering (at least that's what Nikon calls it) it's trying to make the best of a mixed exposure and compromising everything. Maybe the bright foreground caused the camera to bring that down at the expense of the trees?

Using the 'Sunny 16' rule implies one doesn't have a meter. It originated in the early days of photography when light meters didn't exist.

I thought the whole point of the sunny 16 rule is that you're guaranteed a good estimate if you follow the rule on a bright, sunny day. All the parameters were correct: it was taken in bright sun with the correct aperture and shutter settings. I was using the digital camera to understand why my film camera (which was set to aperture priority mode and uses centre weighted average) was giving me such bad results. It seems that I'm about 2-3 stops underexposed and I'm just confused why the so called "rule" is so far away from the expected result. I understand that it's a starting point, but I would have expected it to at least have been close to the correct exposure since all the settings and light conditions were correct.

 

[Derrel]

You are assuming that f/16 is REALLY f/16...around the size of a BB...if the aperture mechanism is sloppy/old/out of calibration, 1 mm too small in width x 3.14 = a significant under-exposure. Shutter speeds with electronically-timed shutters are usually accurate, but lens diaphragms are not always accurate. Also..f /stop is a purely mathematical relationship...The T-stop, for acual transmission, is the movie industry standard for accurate metering. Imagine a 17 to 21-element zoom that loses 8/10 of a stop of light transmission, combined.with a slightly out-of-calibration diaphragm..the difference between actual T-stop and "nominal" might be f/27 or f/32...

Imagine an oven temp. dial that says 375, but the oven is really 320...not close, over a 60-min roast cook time...

There is also the possibility of user error..wrong ISO set, wrong speed set. etc..