Pub Photography & Dry Ice

[Olympus E300]

I have been handed a great opportunity to do some bar photography. This is a mutually beneficial deal between the bar and myself. They get free photography and I get free practice in what I would call a very dynamic and stressfull situation. The pub owners are looking for some photos to help promote their new website and they are aware that this type of gig is really new to me. They're not picky and simply love the idea that I'm doing this free of charge. They've asked for not only photographs of the patrons & employees but also of the live bands. This will be an on going thing - every Friday night. The trouble is that the bar is full of dry ice and LED lighting. My speedlight turns the dry ice into an annoying wall of white glare if I attempt to shoot from any distance away. Therefore, my first gig was reduced to mostly close up shots. Does anyone have any suggestions or tips when doing this sort of photography?

Thanks!
- Daniel

 

[FUNKMIKE2013]

Check some of my club shots. I'm not a photographer, I'm a dj but I like to take photos of the bands/singers and some patrons. I only use flash for patrons/guests shots.There are also shots of the party people on the dancefloor taken w/out a flash, just ambient disco lights. Well, some of the guitarists, bassists and drummers shots were taken with flash. Most shots are taken with ambient club lights. I use the kit lens of my D7000, 18-105, 50mm 1.8D and the 70-200 f2.8 Sigma APO HSM w/OS.

heres my Flickr
Flickr: FUNK Mike2013's Photostream

 

[Braineack]

I didn't know Sony made the D7000...

 

[Steve5D]

I didn't know Sony made the D7000...

Where did he say anything about Sony?

 

[FUNKMIKE2013]

I didn't know Sony made the D7000...

Where did he say anything about Sony?

Perhaps he meant Sony made the sensors for the D7000.

 

[Olympus E300]

WoW! FUNKMIKE2013, you have some great shots there! If the DJ world doesn't work out for you, you appear to have a backup career on the hook. Good for you! With that said, its obvious to me that the bar in which you take your photos has much brighter lighting that the bar in which I take mine while having far less dry ice. My scenario : Picture a small warehouse with the walls and ceiling painted black and all of the lights turned off except for one small stage area on one far end of that warehouse. The stage area is lit with flood lights and LED lighting and covered with dry ice fog... With the exception of the odd neon beer sign hanging on the wall, the rest of the place is pretty much pitch dark.

Ambient light is very difficult to work with in my situation because the ambient light is nearly all coming from the stage area and it is very, very dynamic. The colors are always changing and flashing on and off. Flash seems to be the only option for me at this point (I'm obviously not far along enough in my photography studies to understand how to use the dynamic ambient light in a way so that it works for me). Now, the flash bouncing off the dry ice fog is creating an issue. Its a stressful situation for me but I'm having fun and hopefully learning as I go along. The bar owners are happy because I am providing some quality work...Not A+ stuff but website worthy and that's what they're after. I just wish I could find a way to better control the flash bounce off that darned dry ice fog! I wish I could find a way to get richer colors without having to rely so much on post production.

If it matters, I probably should have mentioned that I'm working with a Canon 5D MKIII and a 600EX-RT and a 24-105mm L IS USM.

Cheers!
- Daniel

 

[Braineack]

I didn't know Sony made the D7000...

Where did he say anything about Sony?

All the shots I was looking at on on his Flickr were taken with a NEX-6, but looking back there seems to be a mix between that and the D7000, my bad. carry on.

 

[FUNKMIKE2013]

WoW! FUNKMIKE2013, you have some great shots there! If the DJ world doesn't work out for you, you appear to have a backup career on the hook. Good for you! With that said, its obvious to me that the bar in which you take your photos has much brighter lighting that the bar in which I take mine while having far less dry ice. My scenario : Picture a small warehouse with the walls and ceiling painted black and all of the lights turned off except for one small stage area on one far end of that warehouse. The stage area is lit with flood lights and LED lighting and covered with dry ice fog... With the exception of the odd neon beer sign hanging on the wall, the rest of the place is pretty much pitch dark.

Ambient light is very difficult to work with in my situation because the ambient light is nearly all coming from the stage area and it is very, very dynamic. The colors are always changing and flashing on and off. Flash seems to be the only option for me at this point (I'm obviously not far along enough in my photography studies to understand how to use the dynamic ambient light in a way so that it works for me). Now, the flash bouncing off the dry ice fog is creating an issue. Its a stressful situation for me but I'm having fun and hopefully learning as I go along. The bar owners are happy because I am providing some quality work...Not A+ stuff but website worthy and that's what they're after. I just wish I could find a way to better control the flash bounce off that darned dry ice fog! I wish I could find a way to get richer colors without having to rely so much on post production.

If it matters, I probably should have mentioned that I'm working with a Canon 5D MKIII and a 600EX-RT and a 24-105mm L IS USM.

Cheers!
- Daniel

Thanks man! Yes, the bar I'm shooting at is bright with tons of lights of all sorts. Lights go change a lot so quick tho so I have to shoot sometimes jpg so that I can have the 6 frames/second. Also, the singers move a lot on stage so I have to anticipate their movement. It also helps for me to know the tunes theyre singing, the more I know when to shoot. In your situation, I guess you have no choice but to use a flash. I don't know much about working with flashes, but when I use them it's always off camera with triggers and the flahes I use are those cheap Yongnous with a slow shutter speed to let in the ambient club lights as much as possible.

To BRAINEACK, yes, I also shoot with a Sony Nex-6. Now, more usage is the D7000 for superior continuos AF-C 3D.

 

[bratkinson]

Although I've never shot in a bar, I do shoot bands at church functions, sometimes with special/variable lighting, etc.

The first step is don't go shooting at 5FPS. You've got all night to take your shots, so having to process through 10,000,000 frames is not a good idea. Watch the band for a few minutes and figure out what shots are the best...preferrably not during the really fast music. Figure out, from their music, what kinds of movements/motions are coming in the next 2-3 seconds. Watch the backgrounds, too, to avoid unnecessarily detracting elements (my biggest problem). For me, I like the more 'animated' performers/singers with big expressions, hand/arm movements, etc. But I also try to get about 10 of each performer mostly filling the frame.

I've gone to mostly no-flash photography in those situations. What that means is ISO 3200 or 6400 on my 5D3. Use 8000 if you have to. That way, you should be able to keep shutter speeds in the 1/100th or faster...preferrably closer to 1/250, but that's usually not achieveable unless you are at f2.0 or wider.

I do, however, shoot a couple of flash shots (580EX ii) just as 'insurance', and bounce off the ceiling, etc. The consequences, however, is the colored lights appear almost white. As you're having to deal with CO2, 'tone down' the flash as much as possible with the built in diffuser and/or attached diffuser of some kind...when I have to, I use a generic 'Tupperware' diffuser I found on ebay.

Next, is your lens. While I love the zoom range on the 24-105 f4L, for that kind of work, it's too slow and therefore doesn't get much use, unless the lights are really bright. So, for fairly-close 'whole band' shots, I use my 16-35 f28L ii. Some from front-on, some angled from the sides, etc. At other times, my 80-200 f2.8L 'magic drainpipe' gets the job done, mostly from the back of the room. And for 'drop dead' thin DOF shots, the 135 f2L...wide open.

Lastly, unless you are under 40 and have rock-steady hands, you'll need some kind of camera support. I use a light weight monopod with an expensive ballhead on top with a quick release clamp as my 5D3 is gripped and has an L bracket on it. I'm fortunate that I don't have to deal with people dancing in the aisles and everywhere else, but when I move from shooting location to shooting location, I have to collapse the monopod before I move.

For what it's worth, since becoming actively involved in my local church, my digital photography has been driven by the need to do low light work without a flash. I finally arrived at a 5D3 and 4 L lenses. In my estimation, I think I've succeded in my quest.

 

[Olympus E300]

That sounds like great advice bratkinson. Thanks for taking the time to pass that along. To be honest, because I'm working in such a dark environment, it never occurred to me to shoot without the flash. I'm still really just learning and the 5D3 is leaps and bounds different from my old Olympus E3.

An advantage of not carrying the flash on the camera would be the reduced chance of breaking it off the hot shoe. This may be hard to believe but in a "rock and roll", "biker" bar there tends to be the odd drunk guy (or gal) who tends to get a little wobbly or aggressive.

Cheers!
- Daniel

 

[TCampbell]

I have no experience shooting with dry ice (other than remembering that it usually likes to hang low because it's heavier than air... unless you're referring to a fog-machine which isn't dry ice and that stuff will hang in the air.)

Here's a link to one of my Flickr sets. This was shot in a _very_ dark room (they basically turn the lights off except for the stage lighting itself).

These were shot with my 5D II (before I had my 5D III), but the lenses were a 70-200 f/2.8 and a 135 f/2 -- both fantastic for low light.

I've left all the EXIF data intact... so you can check the settings.

Notice these are all shot at ISO 3200 or 6400. No flash. But I am always right down there at f/2 or f/2.8 in every shot. Notice these are all fairly decent shutter speeds considering the lighting is so low.

ALSO notice that I'm shooting aperture priority and setting the exposure compensation to around -1 (sometimes -1.3). I do this for two reasons that come in handy at events.

First... if the lighting is changing all the time, you'll probably never keep up with metering and adjusting on-the-fly when shooting in full manual. Manual works great when you can meter the light, set the exposure in camera, and take the shot with the light not changing between the time you metered and the time you shoot. Your 5D III is HIGHLY configurable for metering. On your 5D III custom controls (Menu -> Orange Camera #2 -> Custom Controls screen) make sure your AF-On button is set to "Metering and AF Start" (I THINK that was the default on mine.) This is because in normal one-shot mode (again... configurable since you own a high end body) the camera would NORMALLY meter, focus, and then wait for you to shoot. But if you frame up, meter, focus... and while waiting for that 'decisive' moment to shoot the lighting happens to change, the camera will NOT update the exposure to handle the changed lighting. If this happens you just need to hit that back "AF-ON" button and it will force the camera to re-meter the scene just before you take the shot.

Second... the reason I use aperture compensation down to -1 (salt to taste) is because in a normally "black" room the camera is going to think everything is under-exposed and struggle to bring up the exposure as much as possible. But a black room *should* be black... not muddy gray. The lights on the band will highlight their faces and instruments but the camera. They tend to get over-exposed because the camera was trying to bring up the blacks. By telling the camera to deliberately under-expose, it means the black stay black (not gray) and the performers are not over-exposed. You could also use spot meter and just meter a person's face so it's locking exposure on their skin rather than their clothes or general background lighting.

In terms of composition... some performers like to hide behind the mic. Some peek their face out for a moment. Look at the mic. Look at the room. Watch how the artist performs. Then use that to figure out where the best place to stand is going to be. I always try to avoid having the mic hide their face & mouth... and it's not always easy. Especially in a room where I can't easily move around.

Some performers really work up a sweat. The shots in the first few songs will have them looking different than the shots later in the night. When I shot Jon McLaughlin I was only allowed to shoot him during the first three songs (those were the rules of giving me a photo pass). That's partly because they don't want me blocking the crowd all night long, but also partly because they only want me shooting him when he looks the best (they don't want me shooting him when he's covered in sweat.)

 

[gsgary]

I shoot lots of bands in low light but with dry ice i would leave my camera at home enjoy the music and get pissed

 

[Olympus E300]

I shoot lots of bands in low light but with dry ice i would leave my camera at home enjoy the music and get pissed

Where's your sense of adventure? LoL


And... Mr. Campbell, you are correct about dry ice hanging low and a "fog machine" fog hanging in the air. I think its called an ionizer that the bar I shoot at uses. Its on the ceiling, pointing down, in front of the stage and pointed at the stage. The smoke hangs in the air forever!

I'm going to look through your Flickr stuff when I get home from work (midnight CST). Forgive me, I don't see the link though. I'm sure there's a ton of stuff I can learn there just by looking at your examples. Thanks so much!!

Cheers!
- Daniel

 

[TCampbell]

Apologies Daniel... I thought I pasted the link into the post. Here it is:

Jon McLaughlin - a set on Flickr

Again... these were taken with a 5D II (before I owned my III) and using two lenses... a 70-200 f/2.8L IS USM (the original... not the "II") and the EF 135mm f/2.0L USM (which I _really_ like for low-light events.)

Most images were shot between ISO 3200 and 6400. Just about everything was on aperture priority. Since I'm using a semi-auto mode... I set the exposure compensation to "roughly" -1 (it'll vary from image to image).

I have other concert sets but they were either taken in better lighting or with a different body -- so they aren't great examples.

 

[Olympus E300]

Those are great examples sir! I will certainly be studying these carefully with the hopes of trying to achieve something even remotely close to these. I think its going to take a few outings before I get close... I may need to upgrade some glass also. Great work! I'm particularly fond of IMG_4745. Great composition! The background fellow adds a great deal to the composition (almost angelic feeling) and the background bokeh is just enough so that to the viewer's interest is kept on the main subject. Stellar work! Love it! Thanks so much for sharing!