Regarding Supposed TPF Bullies and Abuse Towards Newbies

[AgentDrex]

7. That this is not the place for such a discussion about honesty, caring towards each other and early communication before things get out of hand.

I think this is exactly it. Placing this thread in the Feedback and Suggestions forum would've garnered less replies but probably all of them would've added to the discussion. The Off Topic Chat forum is not the venue for this topic, I'm afraid.

I'm not sure I'm following the logic here. Is this not a topic outside of photography, hence "off-topic"? Would the "feedback and suggestions" sub-section not be the place for feedback and suggestions for topics limited solely to TPF? The discussion of basic kindess towards each other, open-communication and self-awareness is not limited to TPF, is it? It is not a political topic nor is it a religious one. I believe this is an appropriate place for it. Would you describe why you believe this is the wrong venue for such a discussion?

 

[invisible]

I'm not sure I'm following the logic here. Is this not a topic outside of photography, hence "off-topic"? Would the "feedback and suggestions" sub-section not be the place for feedback and suggestions for topics limited solely to TPF? The discussion of basic kindess towards each other, open-communication and self-awareness is not limited to TPF, is it?

To answer your comment, I'm going to refer you to the title of the thread and the original post:

Regarding Supposed TPF Bullies and Abuse Towards Newbies

While I may be chastised for linking to this thread: I am deleting my own account I feel that a discussion is in need.

There have been a couple threads/posts other than that one indicating an abusive and clique-ish nature here at TPF. I've been going through a few of the threads started by newbies and cannot find any real abuse. I have found some sarcastic remarks that are irrelevant to the OP (I'm very guilty of doing that and I apologize) but I have found absolutely no indication of any abusive language. In my mind, abusive language would be along the lines of: "Hey there, nice photo, are you a monkey? Certainly only a monkey could sling poo that looks as good as that photo.", "Tell you what, sell your camera, buy a gun and go shoot yourself you lame duck.", "I didn't realize such a fata** could get their fat fingers into a position to take a photo."

I've seen posts telling people to re-think their plan of starting a business taking photos until they know how to take photos properly. I don't see how brute honesty is abusive when it is shown that the OP has no business sense and they have fooled themselves into believing that a business will thrive by just taking photos.

I tell people to grow a thick skin, not to harden themselves against abuse (which again I have not seen yet, I haven't gone through all the threads) but to harden themselves for the inevitable honest and insightful critique that may bruise their ego.

I don't want to turn this discussion into a war but I would like to do some discovery with these supposed abusive posts. As long as a mod doesn't lock this thread for one reason or another, would you be so kind to link to a thread where real abuse is apparent so that we can report it? I attempt to be kind but I do have a tendency to either hijack threads with my nonsense or to make sarcastic replies to others' sarcastic replies. Again, I apologize for that.​

Everything there is an invitation to discuss the way the forum works, or aspects of it – Feedback and Suggestions material. The "discussion of basic kindness towards each other, open-communication and self-awareness" is introduced much later in the thread.

I'm just suggesting my thoughts of why this thread derailed (or at least why it failed to fulfill your expectations). If you don't agree with what I'm saying, just ignore me – unless you don't mind even more derailing.

 

[pixmedic]

I'm not sure I'm following the logic here. Is this not a topic outside of photography, hence "off-topic"? Would the "feedback and suggestions" sub-section not be the place for feedback and suggestions for topics limited solely to TPF? The discussion of basic kindess towards each other, open-communication and self-awareness is not limited to TPF, is it?

To answer your comment, I'm going to refer you to the title of the thread and the original post:

Regarding Supposed TPF Bullies and Abuse Towards Newbies

While I may be chastised for linking to this thread: I am deleting my own account I feel that a discussion is in need.

There have been a couple threads/posts other than that one indicating an abusive and clique-ish nature here at TPF. I've been going through a few of the threads started by newbies and cannot find any real abuse. I have found some sarcastic remarks that are irrelevant to the OP (I'm very guilty of doing that and I apologize) but I have found absolutely no indication of any abusive language. In my mind, abusive language would be along the lines of: "Hey there, nice photo, are you a monkey? Certainly only a monkey could sling poo that looks as good as that photo.", "Tell you what, sell your camera, buy a gun and go shoot yourself you lame duck.", "I didn't realize such a fata** could get their fat fingers into a position to take a photo."

I've seen posts telling people to re-think their plan of starting a business taking photos until they know how to take photos properly. I don't see how brute honesty is abusive when it is shown that the OP has no business sense and they have fooled themselves into believing that a business will thrive by just taking photos.

I tell people to grow a thick skin, not to harden themselves against abuse (which again I have not seen yet, I haven't gone through all the threads) but to harden themselves for the inevitable honest and insightful critique that may bruise their ego.

I don't want to turn this discussion into a war but I would like to do some discovery with these supposed abusive posts. As long as a mod doesn't lock this thread for one reason or another, would you be so kind to link to a thread where real abuse is apparent so that we can report it? I attempt to be kind but I do have a tendency to either hijack threads with my nonsense or to make sarcastic replies to others' sarcastic replies. Again, I apologize for that.​

Everything there is an invitation to discuss the way the forum works, or aspects of it – Feedback and Suggestions material. The "discussion of basic kindness towards each other, open-communication and self-awareness" is introduced much later in the thread.

I'm just suggesting my thoughts of why this thread derailed (or at least why it failed to fulfill your expectations). If you don't agree with what I'm saying, just ignore me – unless you don't mind even more derailing.

the thread derailed for the same reason it happens on any other thread....people unable or unwilling to communicate an express ideas/concerns in a civil and constructive manor.

 

[ChaseH]

I'm new to the forum and really to photography. I'm not new to forums in general and I'm a more experienced member of some other communities. The so called abuse isn't bad unless you're expecting to be coddled. Sometimes Noobs are held to an expectation of already knowing standard practices, which may also result in comments that really aren't constructive, but certainly nothing that should chase you off or be thought of as abuse. Otherwise, the offended party should probably drop off the internet in general. You want to see abuse? Click on the comment section of any news source below a politically divided article.

Thanks all for making learning curve steep here. I hope it maintains the same path, as I still have a very long way to go.

Cheers.

 

[invisible]

the thread derailed for the same reason it happens on any other thread....people unable or unwilling to communicate an express ideas/concerns in a civil and constructive manor.

We'll have to agree to disagree then. I think most people are actually able and willing to communicate in a civil/constructive manner.

Good communication starts with properly communicating what you want to communicate about. The topic "being kind and compassionate to each other in a complicated world" (introduced in page umpteenth) definitely belongs here; the discussion about the supposedly abusive treatment of newbies belongs elsewhere.

 

[terri35 7]

I DID IT!!! :cheer: I killed the beast.....

I think this thread has gone on long enough for those who wanted to make a point, to make one. Being a moderator I can tell you that, various definitions for what constitutes bullying aside, there is a LOT that you all don't see. I just cleaned up a thread not even 24 hours old where a newbie was ridiculed. It happens almost daily. Is it bullying? Are some members whiners for being taken aback by a less than friendly/helpful reply? Is hiding behind the shield of "I don't sugarcoat comments!" an excuse to not edit oneself on the big old Internet, because no one can come knock on your door?

Only YOU can make that determination. I mean, you, reading this now...use the Report Post button as often or as seldom as you wish. TPF is a place of your own making. Maybe take a fresh look at the FAQ's so you appreciate the angle the moderators take, since we are tasked with enforcing them.

Till Friday, then.....