Rookies are killing the business!

[Pukka312]

Doesn't it just basically come down to the target audience? If you want to follow the Lexus model and market yourself as a high-end luxury product, you don't look for your customers in a Kia parking lot.

Or maybe on the flip side, it's easier to look at the Wal-Mart model...they hold a majority of the market because they offer products at low prices, even though it's often inferior quality, but due to the massive number of customers, their business thrives. Wal-Mart did force many of its competition to either lose business or rework their business plan. Wal-Mart isn't going anywhere because there are too many people who can't afford (or who simply see no value in spending) more. If you are trying to compete against the giant, you'll probably lose because you're looking at the wrong target market. If you want to follow the Wal-Mart model, hey, it's your business. (Disclaimer: I do realize there are probably many photogs who haven't even considered a business plan, and simply fall in the low-end "Wal-mart" model because they've never successfully done any cost analysis to determine their pricing structure. They just throw out a number that they feel is fair without consideration of expenses. So yeah, some businesses are probably accidentally successful with obtaining clients through pricing, but they are probably making next to nothing in profit- so why be jealous? Those clients are still not in your target audience if you are one with more skill, better quality products and higher prices)

You just have to remember, the percentage of those who are wealthy enough to afford high end is far less than those who are scraping by. You are targeting a minority audience and that's when you have to refine the other aspects of marketing, because you would then be competing amongst your peers with substantial talent, and similar price ranges. At that point, I assume the better businessman comes out ahead.

 

[Steve5D]

You mention morality. Is it morale to go into a wedding with no experience and no real understanding of your equipment or photography?

If the client is made aware of the limitations, certainly...

You want so desperately... like so many other people... to defend people's right to go diving into these things just because... well, I don't even know WHY. I can't figure you out.

Well, I'm flattered that you think you need to figure me out, but I'm really not that much of an enigma.

This forum is full of naysayers. Most of these people, in all likelihood, have never had a paying photo job.

Maybe I view things a bit differently, but I don't see it as my mission to save a photographer the embarrassment of doing a crappy job, nor is it my mission to save a bride and groom the angst of having crappy photos. If newbies listened to the advice of most folks here, they'd never pick up a camera. I dig this forum a lot, but I don't know that I've ever seen a forum with a higher level of negativity towards someone just starting out.

My advice to newbies: If you want to do it, grab the bull by the horns and do it. If you're confident that you can do a good job, then you probably will. But, if you don't, be prepared to be villified for it.

Take action and accept responsibility...

So I sit here suggesting HEY! STEVE! MAYBE IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA IF PEOPLE ACTUALLY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING? MAYBE IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA IF PEOPLE APPRENTICED TO OTHERS... NOT BECAUSE IT'S WHAT IS DONE, BUT IT BECAUSE IT MAKES A WHOLE HEAP LOAD OF GOOD FRICKEN SENSE!

Sure it does. And, if apprenticing was always an option, it might be sound advice. But it's not always possible. Does that mean, then, that no one should ever venture down the road of just doing it?

And then you say "Oh but SOME new people have pulled it off! Including me! Just because it makes sense for everyone, doesn't mean it has to be that way!!!"

You seriously need to untwist your panties, man. You're really getting a tad too upset over this...

Right. Brilliant approach.

I used to play music professionally. When I stopped doing that, I decided I wanted to shoot live club bands and concerts. There was no "apprenticing" for that, and there sure as Hell wasn't anyone willing to take me under their wing. It's just too competitive. There was only one way I was going to get to do it, and that was figure out, on my own, how to do it. I shmoozed the right people and said the right things, and I got into small-time shows, and then into national acts. My shots have been on magazine, DVD and CD covers, and are used on various band websites. It ain't makin' me rich, but that's okay, because "rich" isn't the point here. The point is that I never would've gotten myself to a position where I could should anyone, at any venue in town, had I not gotten off my ass and figured out how to do it on my own. THAT'S what I'm suggesting, simply because no one here has any vested interest in truly helping anyone else out It happens, but "help" doesn't come in the form of "DON'T DO IT". That's a defeatist attitude, quite often adopted by naysayers who are, all too often, afraid to do it themselves...

Look... I make a healthy salary and have a great lifestyle, but haven't completed my degree, but I'll be the FIRST to tell you that not getting your degree is STOOOOOOOOOOPID and just ASKING for ALL KINDS of trouble. But hey! It worked for me! So SCREW degrees! Right?

Deep end, meet Manaheim...

Brilliant.

No, not brilliant. Ballsy. Confident. Cocky. Unafraid. You're clearly none of those things. Perhaps you should step out of the way of those who are.

Nothing worthwhile has ever been accomplished because all the pieces fell perfectly into place. If you're not the kind of person who doesn't have the required level of self-confidence to take what others might consider a "chance", that's fine. But if someone wants to do just that, I say Godspeed. In doing so, a person will reap the benefits of his successes, but he will also shoulder the responsibility for his failures.

Either way, he'll know that he succeeded or failed on his own accord, and on his own terms, instead of because he decided to listen to what some random guy with a bunny avatar said on on an internet forum...

 

[Steve5D]

Not to be all nitpicky and jerky (mmmm jerky) but wouldn't it be more a matter of ethicality than morality?

I don't know that morality wouldn't belong there, though, although you are correct about the "ethics" part. I should've included that.

My morals tell me to do the best job I can do. Ethically, it's incumbent upon me to make the client aware of my level of expertise. If, after being made aware of that, the client chooses to hire me, my conscience is clear...

 

[manaheim]

Totally respect your position on it, Steve. I see where you're coming from... though I do think the comparison to playing music professionally and doing wedding photography is totally bull. Very big difference in what you manage to wreck if you're out of your league between the two, and it's also quite easy to determine in a short audition (even to those with relatively little sense of music) if you're a competent musician.

That aside... I get you. Thanks for taking the time to explain it.

 

[cgipson1]

Totally respect your position on it, Steve. I see where you're coming from... though I do think the comparison to playing music professionally and doing wedding photography is totally bull. Very big difference in what you manage to wreck if you're out of your league between the two, and it's also quite easy to determine in a short audition (even to those with relatively little sense of music) if you're a competent musician.

That aside... I get you. Thanks for taking the time to explain it.

Plus it takes a lot of hard work to become competent on an instrument! The rookies just put the camera in Auto, or TTL mode.... big difference. One requires skill, one requires half a brain.

 

[runnah]

Totally respect your position on it, Steve. I see where you're coming from... though I do think the comparison to playing music professionally and doing wedding photography is totally bull. Very big difference in what you manage to wreck if you're out of your league between the two, and it's also quite easy to determine in a short audition (even to those with relatively little sense of music) if you're a competent musician.

That aside... I get you. Thanks for taking the time to explain it.

Plus it takes a lot of hard work to become competent on an instrument! The rookies just put the camera in Auto, or TTL mode.... big difference. One requires skill, one requires half a brain.

Lies! I can teach someone 4 chords and have them playing 90% of today's music.

 

[cgipson1]

Totally respect your position on it, Steve. I see where you're coming from... though I do think the comparison to playing music professionally and doing wedding photography is totally bull. Very big difference in what you manage to wreck if you're out of your league between the two, and it's also quite easy to determine in a short audition (even to those with relatively little sense of music) if you're a competent musician.

That aside... I get you. Thanks for taking the time to explain it.

Plus it takes a lot of hard work to become competent on an instrument! The rookies just put the camera in Auto, or TTL mode.... big difference. One requires skill, one requires half a brain.

Lies! I can teach someone 4 chords and have them playing 90% of today's music.

Sure... you can probably teach them to "rap" too... lol!

 

[pixmedic]

I would like to share a relevant story concerning me and my wifes opinion of the "rookies".
we live in the Orlando area. a HUGE area that is ridiculously over-saturated with photographers. (i much preferred the smaller area we lived in before)
now, we don't get $4000+ a wedding, but we don't do them for $200 either. I guess we meet somewhere in the middle. competition is tough. there are a lot of good photographers out here, and 10 times as many cliche FB fauxtogs. One such rookie is a woman whos kid sees the same physical therapist as our son. she has a FB business page. she does weddings, partys, portraits, maternity, newborn sessions, whatever you could think of. All with her brand new T3i and 18-55 kit lens she purchased in october of 2012. her pictures are mostly underexposed, soft or missed focus, selectively colored, or poorly composed, but apparently her clients don't seem to mind.
every week my wife talks a little shop with her. sometimes about composition, sometimes about exposure or lighting, sometimes just about the different camera modes.
She finally even got a Canon speedlight, which helped her pictures quite a bit.

so..heres my wife, a photographer struggling to get business in an already photographer heavy area that we only recently moved to, HELPING another "pro"(?)
improve their work. Is she creating more competition? is she making it harder on herself and us by helping a newer photographer improve, and bettering THEIR chances at getting work right in our own back yard? yea, maybe. im sure some people will look at it that way. im sure some people will say how stupid it is. we don't look at it that way though. my wife never thought of her as competition, just as someone with similar interests. theres pages and pages here of posts telling someone like the rookie that they should not be presenting themselves as a pro, or as a business (since shes not a legal one)...and you know what? we agree with that 100%. She got her camera in october, and opened her FB business in december. cliche much?

But...she did it. its a done deal. and no amount of ranting, raving, or scolding is going to change that. what does that leave us with? a photographer that clearly needs help. what are our choices? we have some options. could ignore her all together as far as work goes. we could look down from our pedestal and take the moral high ground, chastising her for hanging out her shingle without the proper licensing, experience, or equipment. (and maybe rightly so) OR, my wife could help her become a better photographer. (hopefully) maybe we will lose business to her. maybe she will refer business to us that she cant do. who knows... I guess we will see.

what I have learned from my wife is... as people with experience in a trade, we can either try to stem the tide of newbie "pros" by withholding our knowledge, chastising and berating them from our elitist pedestal for not doing things the way we did them, or the way we feel they should be done...OR, no matter HOW they got their start or at what experience/equipment level they are at, help them to improve, and in doing so, encourage and guide them to doing things properly and professionally.
that's the approach my wife is trying. hopefully it will yield some good results.

 

[imagemaker46]

Portfolios and photos speak for themselves. let the client choose whatever they want.

My only concern is when people pay outrageous sums of money for ****ty photos in the price range of pros who could have give them something nice for their money, that i hate it.

to me, if you paid and wanted to pay 150$ for wedding photos, you might get what you paid for.


I shoot photos for years now, while pricing myself not cheap but not expensive either, it keeps me going and i dont think it hurts the business as i give my client what they expect to get. However, for weddings, i always refer any request to 2-3 excellent photographer i know because i know what they can produce and will please them. I simply tell them, weddings is not my cup of tea and its alot more different than shooting portraits or whatever i do. I educated them and tell why they should pay, how much work it is and how much gear and skills it needs to be a good wedding photographer.

I do the same thing, I have a buddy who shoots weddings and I pass his name on to anyone that asks me about shooting weddings, he's not the best shooter I know, but he does a good job and everyone is always happy with the quality and professional service. ghache, I've seen your portrait stuff and have no doubt that you could do a pretty good job shooting a wedding, but also appreciate that you do pass the work onto a more experienced wedding photographer.

I know I could do a good job shooting weddings, it's not my thing, and as a professional I will pass work on to other professionals that rely on weddings for their sole income. It's just treating other professionals with respect for the work they do.

There are just too many people with cameras that don't give a crap about anyone else but themselves and making a few extra bucks on the weekend, being at the event to them is sometimes more important than doing a good job.

 

[amolitor]

Bravo, pixmedic.

A rising tide raises all ships, what goes around comes around, and so on. A positive approach like that seems to work out on the plus side in unpredictable ways. Sometimes it goes into the negative column, but not as often as you think, and even if it does you get to sleep soundly at night.

 

[Pukka312]

I would like to share a relevant story concerning me and my wifes opinion of the "rookies".
we live in the Orlando area. a HUGE area that is ridiculously over-saturated with photographers. (i much preferred the smaller area we lived in before)
now, we don't get $4000+ a wedding, but we don't do them for $200 either. I guess we meet somewhere in the middle. competition is tough. there are a lot of good photographers out here, and 10 times as many cliche FB fauxtogs. One such rookie is a woman whos kid sees the same physical therapist as our son. she has a FB business page. she does weddings, partys, portraits, maternity, newborn sessions, whatever you could think of. All with her brand new T3i and 18-55 kit lens she purchased in october of 2012. her pictures are mostly underexposed, soft or missed focus, selectively colored, or poorly composed, but apparently her clients don't seem to mind.
every week my wife talks a little shop with her. sometimes about composition, sometimes about exposure or lighting, sometimes just about the different camera modes.
She finally even got a Canon speedlight, which helped her pictures quite a bit.

so..heres my wife, a photographer struggling to get business in an already photographer heavy area that we only recently moved to, HELPING another "pro"(?)
improve their work. Is she creating more competition? is she making it harder on herself and us by helping a newer photographer improve, and bettering THEIR chances at getting work right in our own back yard? yea, maybe. im sure some people will look at it that way. im sure some people will say how stupid it is. we don't look at it that way though. my wife never thought of her as competition, just as someone with similar interests. theres pages and pages here of posts telling someone like the rookie that they should not be presenting themselves as a pro, or as a business (since shes not a legal one)...and you know what? we agree with that 100%. She got her camera in october, and opened her FB business in december. cliche much?

But...she did it. its a done deal. and no amount of ranting, raving, or scolding is going to change that. what does that leave us with? a photographer that clearly needs help. what are our choices? we have some options. could ignore her all together as far as work goes. we could look down from our pedestal and take the moral high ground, chastising her for hanging out her shingle without the proper licensing, experience, or equipment. (and maybe rightly so) OR, my wife could help her become a better photographer. (hopefully) maybe we will lose business to her. maybe she will refer business to us that she cant do. who knows... I guess we will see.

what I have learned from my wife is... as people with experience in a trade, we can either try to stem the tide of newbie "pros" by withholding our knowledge, chastising and berating them from our elitist pedestal for not doing things the way we did them, or the way we feel they should be done...OR, no matter HOW they got their start or at what experience/equipment level they are at, help them to improve, and in doing so, encourage and guide them to doing things properly and professionally.
that's the approach my wife is trying. hopefully it will yield some good results.

I personally think that shows class, as well as self confidence in your own talent (or in this case, your wife's self-confidence) and ability. A lot of people can be taught the technical aspects of how to compose a good photograph, but not everyone can be taught creativity. Not everyone can think on their feet and not only visualize a concept, but execute it, in any situation. So I don't think sharing knowledge equals business loss...unless you found somebody who is truly gifted and creative. And even then, how can you not admire someone who has that talent?

 

[imagemaker46]

I would like to share a relevant story concerning me and my wifes opinion of the "rookies".
we live in the Orlando area. a HUGE area that is ridiculously over-saturated with photographers. (i much preferred the smaller area we lived in before)
now, we don't get $4000+ a wedding, but we don't do them for $200 either. I guess we meet somewhere in the middle. competition is tough. there are a lot of good photographers out here, and 10 times as many cliche FB fauxtogs. One such rookie is a woman whos kid sees the same physical therapist as our son. she has a FB business page. she does weddings, partys, portraits, maternity, newborn sessions, whatever you could think of. All with her brand new T3i and 18-55 kit lens she purchased in october of 2012. her pictures are mostly underexposed, soft or missed focus, selectively colored, or poorly composed, but apparently her clients don't seem to mind.
every week my wife talks a little shop with her. sometimes about composition, sometimes about exposure or lighting, sometimes just about the different camera modes.
She finally even got a Canon speedlight, which helped her pictures quite a bit.

so..heres my wife, a photographer struggling to get business in an already photographer heavy area that we only recently moved to, HELPING another "pro"(?)
improve their work. Is she creating more competition? is she making it harder on herself and us by helping a newer photographer improve, and bettering THEIR chances at getting work right in our own back yard? yea, maybe. im sure some people will look at it that way. im sure some people will say how stupid it is. we don't look at it that way though. my wife never thought of her as competition, just as someone with similar interests. theres pages and pages here of posts telling someone like the rookie that they should not be presenting themselves as a pro, or as a business (since shes not a legal one)...and you know what? we agree with that 100%. She got her camera in october, and opened her FB business in december. cliche much?

But...she did it. its a done deal. and no amount of ranting, raving, or scolding is going to change that. what does that leave us with? a photographer that clearly needs help. what are our choices? we have some options. could ignore her all together as far as work goes. we could look down from our pedestal and take the moral high ground, chastising her for hanging out her shingle without the proper licensing, experience, or equipment. (and maybe rightly so) OR, my wife could help her become a better photographer. (hopefully) maybe we will lose business to her. maybe she will refer business to us that she cant do. who knows... I guess we will see.

what I have learned from my wife is... as people with experience in a trade, we can either try to stem the tide of newbie "pros" by withholding our knowledge, chastising and berating them from our elitist pedestal for not doing things the way we did them, or the way we feel they should be done...OR, no matter HOW they got their start or at what experience/equipment level they are at, help them to improve, and in doing so, encourage and guide them to doing things properly and professionally.
that's the approach my wife is trying. hopefully it will yield some good results.

It's always good to offer helpful suggestions to people in order for them to better themselves, but it can come at a cost.

Similar story. Years ago I needed someone to help out with some very simple shooting, I knew a guy that had some gear, did an ok job, just needed some tips and experience. I took the chance and had the people I was working for hire him on, things worked out pretty well for a few years, he improved, but was still an advanced amateur, still making lots of little mistakes, but he was a talker, and turns out an ass kisser, next thing you know, I'm not working for these people anymore, he talked them into getting rid of me and using him to save money.

I am hired to shoot a big event overseas and a second photographer is required, a friend I have known for years and a good shooter, again not great, but a full time freelancer, we did the job, every one was happy, we worked together on different events for six years. On the next big event I couldn't do the shoot, but we lined up another photographer. Next thing you know I can't back with this group, in spite of trying, being recommended but all the right people, this has gone on for 12 years, I find out that "my friend" that I brought on board has been poaching my clients, bad talking me and telling people that they shouldn't be using me, so they listen to him. Helping some people that want to get ahead, may just end up walking over you and really don't care how they do it. I've been back stabbed too many times, so now when some young eager kid "professional" with a camera comes along and want to "pick my brain" I'll talk about a lot of things, but how to succeed, they can learn that on their own.

I could go on with dozens of stories like this, that affected me and other photographers I know. There is a lot of sleaze in this business. Watch who you help along the way, you never know how sharp the knife is they are holding.

 

[pixmedic]

I would like to share a relevant story concerning me and my wifes opinion of the "rookies".
we live in the Orlando area. a HUGE area that is ridiculously over-saturated with photographers. (i much preferred the smaller area we lived in before)
now, we don't get $4000+ a wedding, but we don't do them for $200 either. I guess we meet somewhere in the middle. competition is tough. there are a lot of good photographers out here, and 10 times as many cliche FB fauxtogs. One such rookie is a woman whos kid sees the same physical therapist as our son. she has a FB business page. she does weddings, partys, portraits, maternity, newborn sessions, whatever you could think of. All with her brand new T3i and 18-55 kit lens she purchased in october of 2012. her pictures are mostly underexposed, soft or missed focus, selectively colored, or poorly composed, but apparently her clients don't seem to mind.
every week my wife talks a little shop with her. sometimes about composition, sometimes about exposure or lighting, sometimes just about the different camera modes.
She finally even got a Canon speedlight, which helped her pictures quite a bit.

so..heres my wife, a photographer struggling to get business in an already photographer heavy area that we only recently moved to, HELPING another "pro"(?)
improve their work. Is she creating more competition? is she making it harder on herself and us by helping a newer photographer improve, and bettering THEIR chances at getting work right in our own back yard? yea, maybe. im sure some people will look at it that way. im sure some people will say how stupid it is. we don't look at it that way though. my wife never thought of her as competition, just as someone with similar interests. theres pages and pages here of posts telling someone like the rookie that they should not be presenting themselves as a pro, or as a business (since shes not a legal one)...and you know what? we agree with that 100%. She got her camera in october, and opened her FB business in december. cliche much?

But...she did it. its a done deal. and no amount of ranting, raving, or scolding is going to change that. what does that leave us with? a photographer that clearly needs help. what are our choices? we have some options. could ignore her all together as far as work goes. we could look down from our pedestal and take the moral high ground, chastising her for hanging out her shingle without the proper licensing, experience, or equipment. (and maybe rightly so) OR, my wife could help her become a better photographer. (hopefully) maybe we will lose business to her. maybe she will refer business to us that she cant do. who knows... I guess we will see.

what I have learned from my wife is... as people with experience in a trade, we can either try to stem the tide of newbie "pros" by withholding our knowledge, chastising and berating them from our elitist pedestal for not doing things the way we did them, or the way we feel they should be done...OR, no matter HOW they got their start or at what experience/equipment level they are at, help them to improve, and in doing so, encourage and guide them to doing things properly and professionally.
that's the approach my wife is trying. hopefully it will yield some good results.

It's always good to offer helpful suggestions to people in order for them to better themselves, but it can come at a cost.

Similar story. Years ago I needed someone to help out with some very simple shooting, I knew a guy that had some gear, did an ok job, just needed some tips and experience. I took the chance and had the people I was working for hire him on, things worked out pretty well for a few years, he improved, but was still an advanced amateur, still making lots of little mistakes, but he was a talker, and turns out an ass kisser, next thing you know, I'm not working for these people anymore, he talked them into getting rid of me and using him to save money.

I am hired to shoot a big event overseas and a second photographer is required, a friend I have known for years and a good shooter, again not great, but a full time freelancer, we did the job, every one was happy, we worked together on different events for six years. On the next big event I couldn't do the shoot, but we lined up another photographer. Next thing you know I can't back with this group, in spite of trying, being recommended but all the right people, this has gone on for 12 years, I find out that "my friend" that I brought on board has been poaching my clients, bad talking me and telling people that they shouldn't be using me, so they listen to him. Helping some people that want to get ahead, may just end up walking over you and really don't care how they do it. I've been back stabbed too many times, so now when some young eager kid "professional" with a camera comes along and want to "pick my brain" I'll talk about a lot of things, but how to succeed, they can learn that on their own.

I could go on with dozens of stories like this, that affected me and other photographers I know. There is a lot of sleaze in this business. Watch who you help along the way, you never know how sharp the knife is they are holding.

well, we aren't exactly running photography workshops out here. just helping out one person. I suppose it COULD go bad, and I am generally the pessimist of the family,
(I alway say im not a pessimist, im a realist) but I guess my biggest weakness is i have a tendency to give people the benefit of the doubt. hopefully this one wont bite us. I dont see it as long term help anyway, my wife doesn't meet her outside of seeing her at therapy.

 

[dewey]

Photography is not much different than any other business.

All of that fancy equipment legitimate auto mechanics have... and they compete with people working "outback" from craigslist ads.

What about the sign business? Every yahoo with $400 and a Saturday to kill can buy a vinyl plotter and start selling "signs" on craigslist.

No insurance... no rent... no licenses... little overhead. But it's the same in most industries. In photography you have to build your name over time. You have to make contacts. You have to get so people know about you BEFORE they go hunting for a photographer.

Now if you rely on some portion of your business from the news industry... you now compete with every bobo with a smart phone willing to send in video for FREE. You're screwed. But I still love chasing news.

 

[Steve5D]

as people with experience in a trade, we can either try to stem the tide of newbie "pros" by withholding our knowledge, chastising and berating them from our elitist pedestal for not doing things the way we did them, or the way we feel they should be done...OR, no matter HOW they got their start or at what experience/equipment level they are at, help them to improve, and in doing so, encourage and guide them to doing things properly and professionally.
that's the approach my wife is trying. hopefully it will yield some good results.

And that's laudable.

Unfortunately, it doesn't happen all too often here on TPF. On any given day, I'd imagine the "Don't do it because you're not good and you're not ready and this is why" posts out number the "Good luck and let us know how it goes" posts 100 to 1.

Manaheim took me to task for always taking the position of "Get out there and do it". Well, given the prevailing tone of everyone of those threads, why not?

Personally, I find the premise of the OP a bit odd. The second sentence says he's concerned about those who make a living shooting pictures.

Why?

He may well have his reasons but, personally, I've never seen it as my place to tell someone they should do something, simply because a negative result will have zero impact on me. It's all about action vs. responsibility. Step up and be a man. Do it, but take the heat if it goes bad. I see nothing wrong with that.

I work in a high-end retail shop, and I've had some issues with how certain things are laid out. One of those things was the location of our credit card machine. After telling the manager "We should move it here", I was told "We can't do that".

Well, maybe "we" can't, but I sure the Hell can. An hour later, all cables had been replaced and routed through the bottoms of display cabinets, the system was tested and it worked great. Everyone says the location improves work flow, and it does.

The only thing I knew about credit card terminals was that I didn't like where ours was. I didn't know how to test them or reboot them. I didn't know how to integrate it with our register or our routers. I didn't even have a very deep knowledge of drilling holes through cabinets (and avoiding the wiring in those) and routing wires through them, but I did it I just did what I did, plugged it all in, and hoped it worked. It did.

I did what I did, and I did it for three reasons.The first reason is that I felt it needed to be done. Second, no one else was gonna' do it. If they ever were, they'd have done it long ago. But the biggest reason I did it was because I was told "We can't do that".

It worked out well, so I've been the recipient of several pats on the back, and some may say those are well deserved. Had it not worked out, though, I would've been the recipient of several kicks in the ass, and those would've been well deserved, as well. The downside had the potential to put us down, saleswise, for the entire day. In all honesty, I probably would've lost my job.

Our manager had been telling people "it can't be done" simply because she didn't want to deal with the hassle of ordering some new cables. I worked with what we had on hand, drew on my shallow level of experience on such matters, and it works flawlessly.

Telling someone that they can't do something because "it can't be done" rarely has the desired outcome, which is keeping the person from doing it. Instead, lend a hand, offer sound, honest advice, and hope the person pulls it off. If they do, applaud them, if they don't, lambaste them and point out why...