Senior Forum Members, PLEASE HELP! In need of some advice :/

[Braineack]

Gee that's the same line all of Al Capone's Loan Sharks used. Face it, with the buisiness ethics you dislplayed I wouldn't hire you to photograph a dead dog.

Careful. He might come to your house unexpectedly, kill your dog, and proceed to take photos of it.

Would that be before or after he demolishes your porch with a sledgehammer? Lol

during. kill two things with one sledgehammer.

 

[bribrius]

I mean lets assume for just a second that these pictures are just so unbelievably amazing that every resteraunt in town suddenly starts clamoring for the OP to come to their resteraunt and shoot for them too, so they call this place and what, this resteraunt is going to say "Sure, since you are our competition let me help you out and give you the name of our photographer so that you can get promo pictures as good if not better than ours, because that really makes sense for us to do that."

This is completely true, the reason I believe this could potentially get my more clientele is because almost all of the restaurant owners have friends that also own their own businesses and they all come from large Italian families, so I may be able to get more business from them for family portraits or their great-niece's wedding kind of thing.
Either way, I'll see if it pans out. I doubt I'll be getting more business from the printing guy though because even if he "promises" me another job, I WILL NOT put myself in this situation with him again.

Italian families ? printer guy? you just have to learn to understand the lingo and how these people think. Every "click" goes about things differently.

 

[AmberAtLoveAndInk]

I mean lets assume for just a second that these pictures are just so unbelievably amazing that every resteraunt in town suddenly starts clamoring for the OP to come to their resteraunt and shoot for them too, so they call this place and what, this resteraunt is going to say "Sure, since you are our competition let me help you out and give you the name of our photographer so that you can get promo pictures as good if not better than ours, because that really makes sense for us to do that."

This is completely true, the reason I believe this could potentially get my more clientele is because almost all of the restaurant owners have friends that also own their own businesses and they all come from large Italian families, so I may be able to get more business from them for family portraits or their great-niece's wedding kind of thing.
Either way, I'll see if it pans out. I doubt I'll be getting more business from the printing guy though because even if he "promises" me another job, I WILL NOT put myself in this situation with him again.

Lol.. I hear you. Glad it all worked out for you, and really if you ever run out of opportunities in Chicago and want to get a photography business started in a hurry try moving to Omaha. It sure would be nice to have somebody I could refer people to who are looking for a professional photographer .. lol.

As tempting as that offer is, I doubt my fiance would like to quit his job, pick up and move to Omaha lmao but if I ever decide to take a trip there I'll be sure to stalk you at the zoo you frequent :mrgreen:

 

[robbins.photo]

This is completely true, the reason I believe this could potentially get my more clientele is because almost all of the restaurant owners have friends that also own their own businesses and they all come from large Italian families, so I may be able to get more business from them for family portraits or their great-niece's wedding kind of thing.
Either way, I'll see if it pans out. I doubt I'll be getting more business from the printing guy though because even if he "promises" me another job, I WILL NOT put myself in this situation with him again.

Lol.. I hear you. Glad it all worked out for you, and really if you ever run out of opportunities in Chicago and want to get a photography business started in a hurry try moving to Omaha. It sure would be nice to have somebody I could refer people to who are looking for a professional photographer .. lol.

As tempting as that offer is, I doubt my fiance would like to quit his job, pick up and move to Omaha lmao but if I ever decide to take a trip there I'll be sure to stalk you at the zoo you frequent :mrgreen:

Or just shoot me an email and we'll get together, I can take you and the fiance out to dinner.

 

[ecphoto]

So I'm in a bit of a pickle. I'll try to make a long story short, but could really use some advice from some members.

A few weeks back I got in contact with a printing distributor who works with many of the small businesses in my area, which is awesome because he could potentially hook me up with many of the businesses he advertises and prints for. He does menu printing for restaurants, store sign decals and even big stuff like full car advertisement wraps for delivery services. Well after meeting him he "promised" to get my foot in the door with a new restaurant that was having it's grand opening in a few weeks, he knew they needed a photographer and would pass my info along to them.

A few weeks pass by and I hear nothing from the guy, no returned phone calls, ignored emails, all that jazz. So I assume he no longer wishes to work with me and I end up booking a prom for a former client the same weekend of the grand opening, figuring the restaurant obviously isn't interested.

Well as of this morning, I receive an email from the restaurant asking me if I am now available for their event. It's a 2 day (Saturday & Sunday) grand opening celebration weekend.

Under any other circumstances I would politely tell the restaurant that I am booked for that weekend and am sorry I cannot help, but here's the tough situation:

The prom client is based in my hometown, 3 hours south of where I live now. She is a great client and I have made a sort of "schedule" for hometown clients, where I travel once a month to hometown to set up photo shoots for my local people. My mom is still there too so even if I only book 1 or 2 sessions when I plan to come out, I still get to visit with my parents. Since moving to the Chicago area it's been tough landing gigs due to the mass amounts of competition so setting up a few photo shoots in one weekend at my hometown helps supplement my income.

But the restaurant IS in the Chicago area where I live now so I won't have to do the grueling 3 hour drive for just one session and I know the pay day for a 2 day event is going to be much greater than a 1 hour prom session. Also, because it is in my area this could potentially give me future gigs with other establishments and the families attending the event.

So here's the question: Do I tell the restaurant no and stick to my commitments, or do I cancel on my prom client and offer her a free photo shoot for the weekend after to "replicate" her prom due to a conflicting schedule?

I feel like a total ass. Just really need some input.

I know the carrot is dangling there and its tempting. However, as photographers we have to be ethical and trustworthy. It may mean making less money, but your reputation as a flake will stick with you. No one will hire a photographer if they don't trust them. Just my 2¢.

 

[nycphotography]

Ok everyone, put down your battle swords! I haven't checked in on this post in awhile since I got about all the advice I needed within the first 5 responses. I do have extremely good news about this whole predicament though! (in case anyone wanted an update)

I called the restaurant after getting their email and told them that I had reached out to their printing guy a few times in the last week and either through my own error or his, I hadn't heard anything back about the event having interest in my services and assumed the restaurant had gone with someone else. I then booked a former client for the same weekend since I had thought I had an open schedule. The woman from the restaurant was very confused and had assumed I was already "hired" weeks ago and she was following up to get the bill from me and talk about the time frame details. So what happened is the PRINTING GUY dropped the ball. The restaurant had agreed to use me weeks ago and when I reached out to him numerous times (I even went as far as asking the guy for the restaurant's contact info so I can speak with them personally) he ignored me and in turn told the restaurant I happily agreed, the restaurant assumed the printing guy would be getting a quote from me and setting up the booking process. I told the woman it is ultimately in the hands of my prom client now and that if I am able to reschedule it, I will be able to shoot the event. I sent my price quote, she agreed to the proposed amount and said she will be waiting patiently to hear back.

I then called the prom client (who is actually the mother that booked me, not the teenager) and laid it all out on the table. Explaining that my obligations are to her and that this scheduling disaster is completely my fault. She has booked me many times over the past year for her family pics, holidays, ect. Before I could even offer her a free shoot and start my rounds of apologies she congratulated me on the job in Chicago and said that I need to take the other job. She said she knows how hard I have worked to get my business name out in Chicago and would tell her daughter the situation. She said we always have next year (since this is her daughter's junior prom, not senior) and I offered her a free 2 hour session (twice as much time as the original prom shoot) and she can use the time however she would like with as many family members as she would like the next time I would be in the area. She then thanked me and told me to "knock em' dead."

The restaurant has now sent over the contracts and put down the event payment. All is good and the Photographic Gods must have been in on this one because no one was offended and my honor is still in tact. Whoooo!

The only problem I see here is that while the printer guy did drop the ball, you pretty much left him swinging in the wind for it!

Wouldnt be a problem if were secondary to your business, but since we is the hookup you are looking to develop, if you don't protect him, you risk that he may lose interest in working with you.

HOPEFULLY, since the scheduling got worked out, he won't pick up on that nuance, but if it fell through, I can bet you wouldn't get another chance and not because it fell though but because you had left him swinging. Yes it's his own fault. But smart in business sometimes means working around other people's failures.

And depending in what gets said between him and the client, it still might go sour down the road.

 

[bribrius]

Ok everyone, put down your battle swords! I haven't checked in on this post in awhile since I got about all the advice I needed within the first 5 responses. I do have extremely good news about this whole predicament though! (in case anyone wanted an update)

I called the restaurant after getting their email and told them that I had reached out to their printing guy a few times in the last week and either through my own error or his, I hadn't heard anything back about the event having interest in my services and assumed the restaurant had gone with someone else. I then booked a former client for the same weekend since I had thought I had an open schedule. The woman from the restaurant was very confused and had assumed I was already "hired" weeks ago and she was following up to get the bill from me and talk about the time frame details. So what happened is the PRINTING GUY dropped the ball. The restaurant had agreed to use me weeks ago and when I reached out to him numerous times (I even went as far as asking the guy for the restaurant's contact info so I can speak with them personally) he ignored me and in turn told the restaurant I happily agreed, the restaurant assumed the printing guy would be getting a quote from me and setting up the booking process. I told the woman it is ultimately in the hands of my prom client now and that if I am able to reschedule it, I will be able to shoot the event. I sent my price quote, she agreed to the proposed amount and said she will be waiting patiently to hear back.

I then called the prom client (who is actually the mother that booked me, not the teenager) and laid it all out on the table. Explaining that my obligations are to her and that this scheduling disaster is completely my fault. She has booked me many times over the past year for her family pics, holidays, ect. Before I could even offer her a free shoot and start my rounds of apologies she congratulated me on the job in Chicago and said that I need to take the other job. She said she knows how hard I have worked to get my business name out in Chicago and would tell her daughter the situation. She said we always have next year (since this is her daughter's junior prom, not senior) and I offered her a free 2 hour session (twice as much time as the original prom shoot) and she can use the time however she would like with as many family members as she would like the next time I would be in the area. She then thanked me and told me to "knock em' dead."

The restaurant has now sent over the contracts and put down the event payment. All is good and the Photographic Gods must have been in on this one because no one was offended and my honor is still in tact. Whoooo!

The only problem I see here is that while the printer guy did drop the ball, you pretty much left him swinging in the wind for it!

Wouldnt be a problem if were secondary to your business, but since we is the hookup you are looking to develop, if you don't protect him, you risk that he may lose interest in working with you.

HOPEFULLY, since the scheduling got worked out, he won't pick up on that nuance, but if it fell through, I can bet you wouldn't get another chance and not because it fell though but because you had left him swinging. Yes it's his own fault. But smart in business sometimes means working around other people's failures.

And depending in what gets said between him and the client, it still might go sour down the road.

yep. Cant tell on a computer screen. But printer guy may not just be printer guy. He could be the "go to" guy. Go to guys can pull a lot of strings in your favor or shut you down.. They know everyone. Always try to figure out who is who before you leap when you get involved with unknown clicks. That is what is hard about these things. A newcomer doesn't see the behind the scenes relationships or understand how things work..
just throwing this out there. You can run your business however you want, but if you want to cater to certain clicks you need to adapt your thinking to their ways and understand them to make it work.

 

[Steve5D]

well i guess i pegged the printer guy right. eat your heart out people im the only one that came close to pegging this situation....... :lmao:

Nonsense.

You were putting the onus on the OP, and that's not where it belonged. The printer never got her the job, because he never told her she had the job. At best, the guy's a hack, and shouldn't be operating as a middle man for anyone. he doesn't follow through. He's unprofessional.

This worked out the way it did because of the perseverance of the OP, and not because of anything the printer did...

 

[AmberAtLoveAndInk]

The only problem I see here is that while the printer guy did drop the ball, you pretty much left him swinging in the wind for it!

Wouldnt be a problem if were secondary to your business, but since we is the hookup you are looking to develop, if you don't protect him, you risk that he may lose interest in working with you.

HOPEFULLY, since the scheduling got worked out, he won't pick up on that nuance, but if it fell through, I can bet you wouldn't get another chance and not because it fell though but because you had left him swinging. Yes it's his own fault. But smart in business sometimes means working around other people's failures.

And depending in what gets said between him and the client, it still might go sour down the road.

In my "happy update" I paraphrased the whole convo with the restaurant to save room in the post but yes, I may have "left him swinging" but I explained the printing guy and I lost touch and though I didn't directly blame him for it, I said either by error on my end, his end, or both. But to be honest, if this is how he usually operates when setting up gigs for people, I have little interest with working with him again unless he can communicate with me in a timely fashion. I'll lose more business waiting for his "promises" especially if the future gigs don't come through.

And if I lose my hook-up with the printing guy, here's on the plus side: My prom client was not upset, I no longer have to drive 3 hours with my inconsolable 2 year old (because if I don't bring my son along with me to my hometown I will face the wrath of my mother not seeing her grandbaby), this restaurant may want to use me in the future for other things, and the pay will be significantly higher.

 

[bribrius]

The only problem I see here is that while the printer guy did drop the ball, you pretty much left him swinging in the wind for it!

Wouldnt be a problem if were secondary to your business, but since we is the hookup you are looking to develop, if you don't protect him, you risk that he may lose interest in working with you.

HOPEFULLY, since the scheduling got worked out, he won't pick up on that nuance, but if it fell through, I can bet you wouldn't get another chance and not because it fell though but because you had left him swinging. Yes it's his own fault. But smart in business sometimes means working around other people's failures.

And depending in what gets said between him and the client, it still might go sour down the road.

In my "happy update" I paraphrased the whole convo with the restaurant to save room in the post but yes, I may have "left him swinging" but I explained the printing guy and I lost touch and though I didn't directly blame him for it, I said either by error on my end, his end, or both. But to be honest, if this is how he usually operates when setting up gigs for people, I have little interest with working with him again unless he can communicate with me in a timely fashion. I'll lose more business waiting for his "promises" especially if the future gigs don't come through.

And if I lose my hook-up with the printing guy, here's on the plus side: My prom client was not upset, I no longer have to drive 3 hours with my inconsolable 2 year old (because if I don't bring my son along with me to my hometown I will face the wrath of my mother not seeing her grandbaby), this restaurant may want to use me in the future for other things, and the pay will be significantly higher.

o.p.
im not sure what is going on there. But you may not be able to circumvent anyone that easily. i used to sell wholesale building materials to construction companies. ive dealt with Cambodians, southies in boston, Chinese, and italians etc. etc.
when dealing with some groups of people, they have a "way" they go about things. whether or not you play along and don't step on toes is directly equivalent to how much business you get. And the first step, is understand who you are talking to and how they fit in with the rest of the crowd. And there is always a "behind the scenes" that you wont know about. But you will get the general idea of how it is going by how much work comes your way. Because these people have serious history together and a certain way of going about things. Maybe this isn't like that, or on that level. But with your business thriving being your priority i would watch carefully what is going on and be careful where you step. For some of these groups relationships are key. Before circumventing printer guy i would find out just how printer guy is involved with everyone else. You may want to go talk to him and have a chat. Or maybe this isn't on that level. But the fact he got you a job no questions asked says a lot.

 

[Steve5D]

But printer guy may not just be printer guy. He could be the "go to" guy. Go to guys can pull a lot of strings in your favor or shut you down.. They know everyone. Always try to figure out who is who before you leap when you get involved with unknown clicks. That is what is hard about these things. A newcomer doesn't see the behind the scenes relationships or understand how things work..
just throwing this out there. You can run your business however you want, but if you want to cater to certain clicks you need to adapt your thinking to their ways and understand them to make it work.

Are you serious?

In this case, the guy you say could be the "go to guy" proved that he's not the "go to guy". He dropped the ball. Badly. Someone who's the "go to guy" gets to be the "go to guy" because he gets things done.

He's a hack, and little more...

 

[Steve5D]

In my "happy update" I paraphrased the whole convo with the restaurant to save room in the post but yes, I may have "left him swinging" but I explained the printing guy and I lost touch and though I didn't directly blame him for it, I said either by error on my end, his end, or both. But to be honest, if this is how he usually operates when setting up gigs for people, I have little interest with working with him again unless he can communicate with me in a timely fashion. I'll lose more business waiting for his "promises" especially if the future gigs don't come through.

Right now, there's not a single reason in the world for you to work with him again. You tried it once, and he failed you. That's his fault. If you try working with him again and he fails you, then it'll be your fault.

And there's just no need to go there...

 

[Steve5D]

The only thing i can correlate this too, is actually a insurance claim on a deck for fivek for someone. People asked me about it. i said i could "probably do that". i showed up and sent someone to start knocking down the old deck. They looked a little shocked the person was there with me because apparently they didn't comprehend we were doing it by my wording. Or maybe they didn't believe it. no idea. so out there with sledgehammers and saws, they walked out and were kind of shocked watching the old deck coming down.

I would ask again, since you dodged it the first time: What would you have done if you and your crew had shown up, and another crew was already on site getting the job done? You had no contract or agreement. You simply said "I could probably do that", which means nothing.

What would you have done?

 

[bribrius]

But printer guy may not just be printer guy. He could be the "go to" guy. Go to guys can pull a lot of strings in your favor or shut you down.. They know everyone. Always try to figure out who is who before you leap when you get involved with unknown clicks. That is what is hard about these things. A newcomer doesn't see the behind the scenes relationships or understand how things work..
just throwing this out there. You can run your business however you want, but if you want to cater to certain clicks you need to adapt your thinking to their ways and understand them to make it work.

Are you serious?

In this case, the guy you say could be the "go to guy" proved that he's not the "go to guy". He dropped the ball. Badly. Someone who's the "go to guy" gets to be the "go to guy" because he gets things done.

He's a hack, and little more...

he could very well be. That wouldn't surprise me either something sure went wrong here. Me personally, i wouldn't make the judgment online it could be bad advice for the o.p.

why i suggested o.p. do a little more research first and err on the side of caution. Figure out who is who and how they are tied. People know each other. sometimes you knock down the wrong domino they all come tumbling down.

 

[Braineack]

sometimes you knock down the wrong domino they all come tumbling down.

like a deck?