serious 'crime and punishment' thread..

captain-spanky · Jul 29, 2003

apologies if this brings anyone down.. I'll post a happy thread too to counteract the bad karma..
BUT
I don't know how many of you non-uk residents are aware of a certain 'case' occuring in the uk involving a Mr Tony Martin. He is a relativley old bloke living on a farm which has been burgled countless times in the past. The police have not done a lot to stop the burgleries and so one night when Mr Martin found 2 youths in his house, claiming self-defence, he shot one and injured the other. One of the lads died and Mr Martin got sent to prison for murder. The second lad who he injured has been given the right to sue Mr Martin for loss of earnings etc.. Mr Martin is now out of prison, under police protection, a traveller 'camp' has been set up near his home to try and intimidate him, he receives regular death threats BUT he also has a great deal of support from the british public who want the right to protect their home/loved ones and who think that if someone is breaking into YOUR house they should lose ALL rights not end up having more..

more details on the whole story here...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/norfolk/3087003.stm

Understandably, this whole thing has casued a lot of outrage in the uk.. both for Mr Martin getting sent down for 'protecting his own home' and for the criminal being allowed to sue Mr Martin. Agreed, there are a lot more factors to be taken into account on this case in particular (Mr Martins mental state, emotional state etc) but it raises many valid questions...

What can one do to protect one's home? How far is too far? Is the criminal justice system a joke? Why do criminals seem to have more rights than the victims? does prison work?
and in the case above, why has the REPEAT offender been let out of prison early?

What do you non-uk people think of all this?

Destiny · Jul 29, 2003

I have never heard of that case before, but it is very interesting.
What I'd like to know is wheather it really was self-defense, or he might have been in panic seeing people in his house, or whether he was just so pissed by having been robbed several times already that he intended to kill this boy.
But still...I don't think it's ok to send him to prison for having murdered that guy...in my opinion it's not murder....and it's definately not ok that this other guy can sue him for being shot :shock:
That's really strange...I mean...THEY were breaking into HIS house?!

Dew · Jul 29, 2003

the justice system is a joke!!!!! ... i will defend my home/family whatever the cost 8)

Darfion · Jul 29, 2003

Dew said:
the justice system is a joke!!!!! ... i will defend my home/family whatever the cost 8)

Ditto! Yet you are treated as the criminal when you do so. It's a disgrace.

motcon · Jul 29, 2003

it's mind boggling that the uk went from the most secure law abiding region in the world to chaos in less than a lifetime. i'm empathetic and hope the uk has some precedent cases on which to draw in order to stifle wrongdoing.

metroshane · Jul 29, 2003

[@t is not legal to defend property with deadly force. In fact, you are not allowed to use extreme force (force that is more extreme than that being offered to you) to protect yourself. That means you can't shoot a guy who punches you in the face. That would be "unreasonable".

Given that, come in my house...get shot. I'd rather spend time in jail then in the ground.

BMW-M6 · Jul 29, 2003

In Holland the sentences are a laugh.

That guy that shot a politician last year got 18 years,
he already had 1 year of prison, so 17 left

take 6 off for good behaviour, he'll be out in 11 years

and then the judge said that he wanted to save LIFE TIME SENTENCE
for bigger cases

so, shooting a politician isn't a big case?

To be more on-topic, if you keep a burgler tied up in your house
to make sure he's still there when the police arrives, he's allowed
to sue you for taking his liberty ???

I mean, come on!

This reminds me of this joke.

A man comes home late and before he's off to bed
he hears noises in the backyard.
He peeks thru the window and sees a man trying to break
into his shed.

So the man calls the police, explains the situation and the
police replies: "Sorry, there's no one available at the moment!"

So the guy hangs up, calls back 1 minute later and says:

"I shoot a burgler!"

Within 2 minutes a complete police squad is standing outside
his door and catches the burgler breaking into the shed.

So the policeman says: "I thought you said you shot someone?"

To which the man replies: " I thought you said there was no one available?"