Shooting in P mode

[skyy38]

Let go

Your way doesn't have to be the only right way

Just make pictures.

Fortunately for me, my way is the best way for me, but my ways were also shaped by learning from others.

In the end, everyone is their own person.

As a member of The Who once said "I'm The Best Keith Moon -Type Drummer That I Know!"

 

[StoneNYC]

I agree everyone learns different, Nita's you said about the creative process, for me it was BECAUSE of manual mode that got me hooked... I was so amazed that I could tell the camera to "see through" the chain link fence and only "see" the lion at the zoo, that never would have happened with a zoom lens and auto settings, it never would have picked f/1.8 at 1/1000 in bright sun, it would have picked f/5.6 at 1/200 or whatever.

Learning manual functions is ESSENTIAL to the creative process... It's like saying learn to paint without brushes and only a white canvas and a stencil pattern. Sure you can pour the paint on and lift the stencil, and there is an image, but you didn't learn anything about painting, the stencil patten was made for you and so was the paint... You learned nothing...


~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Helen B]

I'll go with the 'it depends on the individual' thing. Some of us find that understanding physical things is easy, some find it incredibly difficult, and if they tried to understand too much stuff it would get in their way. That doesn't make them less of a photographer. The growth of one's visual sense / gaze / sense of wonder seems to me to be the most important thing. Technical issues should not hinder that, but neither should they overtake that, although a bit of experimentation with technique is no bad thing along the way. (As unpopular mentioned early on, technical and artistic issues are probably better considered as parts of the whole, not as separate departments - that concept of separation seems to have a negative effect.)

Although I consider complete technical mastery and continuous learning as being an important aim to me as a professional photographer and cinematographer (I should never be hindered by lack of understanding, nor burdened by overweight technicalities, if possible) it doesn't seem necessary - I know a couple of very well-considered and very highly paid, in demand, photographers who rely on their assistants and digital techs for all the technical stuff, and one who can't even focus for himself. It's all front. Well, not all.

Re-reading all that makes me feel awfully pompous. Horrible. Hate that, but it's the best I can do with these damned things called words in a reasonable time. Let down by technical inability, I guess.

 

[ann]

Started reading this thread early on and considered making some remarks (can't remember why I didn't). Have come back as I saw Helen has chimed in and I always read her remarks.

Anyway, I haven't gone back and read 14 pages so please forgive me if i am going to repeat someone else.

I grew up and spent 64 years using manual mode. In the past few years, with the equipment getting better, I have decided, do what ever is going to get the job done.

I still manual meter over 90% of the time, but if Program , or even that green box is going to give me a better chance , I am going to flip that switch in a heart beat.

 

[unpopular]

Let go

Your way doesn't have to be the only right way

Just make pictures.

Am I the only one that sees the irony in this? Why is it that whenever the AE proponents meet resistance by the MF crowed, we're the one who's being snobby? Isn't Lew here the one saying people should learn AE first - how is that any more "your way doesn't have to be the right way" position than people saying the same thing but with manual mode first?

There's this snobbery perception about people who advocate manual mode, but honestly, I get more snobbery from the AE crowed, insinuating we're a bunch of luddite elitists who resists technology to seem superior to everyone else - by virtue of nothing more than a preference to manual mode or a belief that people ought to learn it, over AE, first.

For me anyway, this couldn't be further from the truth, and anyone who actually understands either manual or auto, those who actually understand EXPOSURE and not just dials alone (in either mode), knows how absolutely ridiculous such "mode elitism" actually is, since AE isn't really doing anything substantial and doesn't protect a photographer - regardless of skill level - from understanding exposure, a concept I don't think most people either understand, or care to go into.

In fact, Auto and Manual exposure aren't different at all. I repeat NOT AT ALL. They're doing the same thing, the difference is in automation and automation alone. I get the feeling that this is the same argument both for learning with AE as well as that I am making against.

But please, don't propose one thing and then accuse anyone who disagrees of feeling superior with this "your way doesn't have to be the only way" line. Because when you do, it only makes you look like a black kettle.

 

[Derrel]

I'm actually in the market for an attractive luddite elitist with her own camera gear and lenses...

 

[unpopular]

is this a sexual thing?

 

[Demers18]

is this a sexual thing?

I think it's along the lines of S&M

 

[unpopular]

so would that make Derrel submissive? Or does he want to whip the manual exposure out of her?

 

[Derrel]

so would that make Derrel submissive? Or does he want to whip the manual exposure out of her?

Hmmmm...."Now, remember, the safe word phrase is 'Shiftable Program Override'!"

 

[unpopular]

And what if she shoots Canon??? Or are you not into mixed platform relationships?

 

[Derrel]

And what if she shoots Canon??? Or are you not into mixed platform relationships?

Dude...I have a Canon system...and a Nikon system...and a Bronica system...and some M42 lenses too!!! And 17 F-mount to Canon adapters...

Now, interestingly, I normally shoot the adapted lenses on the Canon in Av automatic mode...that works well for me when using either F-mount, Olympus, or m42 thread mount lenses on my Canon 5D...

This week, I went to the seashore and made 674 pictures. ALL of them,every single one, was shot in Aperture Priority automatic with a Nikon, using a 70-200/2.8 zoom, and Matrix metering, with ISO values of 100,200,250,400, a handful at 800, a handful at ISO 1,600 after the sun had set. I used +.7 exposure compensation in some extreme backlighting against the sunset and ocean surf.

And...you know what??? Using Aperture Priority auto, my Nikon pounded out 674 good exposures. Easy-peasy Lightroom processing. Only minimal effort needed. Damned near perfect exposures. I was free to aim, compose, and shoot. I barely chimp at all these days because my close-up vision SUCKS with my shooting glasses on my face, and the viewfinder image's apparent distance is around six feet (trust me, it's not a close-up distance..it's about six feet!), so I can't see chit on the back of the camera any more unless I take my glasses off, so...I don't chimp much at all...I mean, it does me no good...

I WAS going to try some Program shooting, but just shot every single frame for eight hours in Aperture Priority. And damnit...the exposures the Nikon Matrix cranked out were very consistent, and the results were, in my opinion, basically excellent...from 10 AM until about 45 minutes after the sun had set.

 

[Buckster]

And what if she shoots Canon??? Or are you not into mixed platform relationships?

Dude...I have a Canon system...and a Nikon system...and a Bronica system...and some M42 lenses too!!! And 17 F-mount to Canon adapters...

Now, interestingly, I normally shoot the adapted lenses on the Canon in Av automatic mode...that works well for me when using either F-mount, Olympus, or m42 thread mount lenses on my Canon 5D...

 

[unpopular]

And what if she shoots Canon??? Or are you not into mixed platform relationships?

Dude...I have a Canon system...and a Nikon system...and a Bronica system...and some M42 lenses too!!! And 17 F-mount to Canon adapters...

Now, interestingly, I normally shoot the adapted lenses on the Canon in Av automatic mode...that works well for me when using either F-mount, Olympus, or m42 thread mount lenses on my Canon 5D...

This week, I went to the seashore and made 674 pictures. ALL of them,every single one, was shot in Aperture Priority automatic with a Nikon, using a 70-200/2.8 zoom, and Matrix metering, with ISO values of 100,200,250,400, a handful at 800, a handful at ISO 1,600 after the sun had set. I used +.7 exposure compensation in some extreme backlighting against the sunset and ocean surf.

And...you know what??? Using Aperture Priority auto, my Nikon pounded out 674 good exposures. Easy-peasy Lightroom processing. Only minimal effort needed. Damned near perfect exposures. I was free to aim, compose, and shoot. I barely chimp at all these days because my close-up vision SUCKS with my shooting glasses on my face, and the viewfinder image's apparent distance is around six feet (trust me, it's not a close-up distance..it's about six feet!), so I can't see chit on the back of the camera any more unless I take my glasses off, so...I don't chimp much at all...I mean, it does me no good...

drrrp.

well except Bronica. which deserves a really big DERRRRRRP :mrgreen:

I WAS going to try some Program shooting, but just shot every single frame for eight hours in Aperture Priority. And damnit...the exposures the Nikon Matrix cranked out were very consistent, and the results were, in my opinion, basically excellent...from 10 AM until about 45 minutes after the sun had set.

Program mode is pretty cool actually, once I figured out what it was and that I use it all the time. Like I said, on a Minolta/Sony and [newer?] Pentax camera, if you press the AEL button it locks the EV value and translates the exposure equivalently. I think program mode definitely gets a bad wrap, and Pentax even has some snazzy sounding name for this feature that doesn't inclue the word "program" in is, despite that this is exactly what it's doing.

"Program Mode" makes it sound like it's more "artificially intelligent" than it is.

 

[StoneNYC]

Darlene might have proved my point, they might have all been exposed correctly, but how many will you ever use? How many are composed and exposed so well that that they are salable? Learning about and not using P mode is more than just about the exposure, it's about slowing down and getting a usable shot... 600 photos! Geeze, heck at a wedding I only shoot double that many, at a wedding! And even that I'm trying to cut down.. Too much clutter to get to the good stuff


~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk