Sigma

[hamlet]

[SIZE=+2][SIZE=+3]Recommendations[/SIZE][/SIZE]

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This Sigma 35/1.4 has superb optics, but in an iffy mechanical package.
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I wouldn't buy a Sigma lens because I don't trust their lens' long-term viability (I demand that any lens I buy serve me for about 20 years), but if you can get over my personal problems, this consumer-grade Sigma 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM has the same superb optics as Nikon or Canon's professional lenses.
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Source: link

I'm wondering what you think about Sigma lenses and if there is any truth to that? What is your personal opinion about Sigma lenses?

 

[Derrel]

Well...there is some basis in reality for his worries. The Nikon Sigma Kerfuffle | byThom | Thom Hogan

In the past, there have been instances where new Nikon focusing protocols "broke" Sigma HSM lenses, and caused pretty annoying functionality problems. The SAME thing happened as well with Sigma AF lenses and the Canon **digital** EOS lenses. For example, I own a Sigma 70-210 f/4~5.6 that works 100% FINE WITH the 35mm film Canon Rebel body that it is contemporary with, but it will "lock up" my two newer Canon d-slr bodies about 80% OF THE SHOTS.

The same type of in compatibility issues exist with other third-party lensmakers' products; look through the listings on KEH.com for older 3rd party lenses; there are a number that state "film cameras only". The fact that ANY Canon EF lens will work on a 25 year-old EOS 620 or EOS 650 AND on today's newest Canon d-slr bodies, but the same is NOT true of independent lensmakers' offerings, is proof that there is an actual precedent which is the basis for Ken's warnings about long-term compatibility.

With the d-slr market now down to basically Canon and Nikon, and the camera market shrinking and generally constricting, I think I can see why Nikon might be adopting this "closed system" mentality, designed to make life difficult for third-party manufacturers. I can't say that I agree with it, but I do see why they might be deliberately trying to shift opinions away from the advisability of using third-party lenses,batteries, grips, and flashes. Keep in mind that neither Canon, nor Nikon, "share" information with the third-party lens makers...those companies are competitors for sales. As you can see, as recently as late last year, the very-newest Nikon bodies "broke" Sigma's functioning. Same with a new Nikon firmware update that Hogan and other reported on--after updating the firmware: The Ecosystem Narrows | byThom | Thom Hogan

"Besides upsetting Sigma lens compatibility, it turns out that Nikon may be disrupting other accessory compatibility, too. The recent D3100, D3200, D5100, and D5200 firmware updates appear to kill two birds with one stone: third party battery replacements apparently don't work in the cameras, and Nikon batteries apparently don't work in third party battery grips for those cameras."

So.......yeah....Ken Rockwell has a very real point about long-term compatibility and third-party products. The evidence, both historical, and recent, is out there.

 

[480sparky]

First off, the 'source' is KR. Do a bit of digging into him. Keep in mind: He's not a god. He didn't come down from the mountain with the Ten Commandments either. He can't part the sea or walk on water. He's just a guy, who just happens to have a website where he expresses his opinions and begs for money. And they are opinions, not engraved-in-stone facts.

As for his "I demand that any lens I buy serve me for about 20 years" requirement........ he also doesn't buy every lens he tests. When he speaks of 'viability', is he referring to the ability of the lens to still be in service in 20 years, or the company that made it? If it's the latter, ANY company can go belly-up tomorrow. Case in point: Kodak. And even if Sigma did Join the Quiet Invisible come Monday morning, I'm sure my 3 Sigma lenses will still work on my cameras.

 

[hamlet]

So all this drama is about it not working on newer dslr's, it's not that the lens will break faster or anything.

 

[Derrel]

So all this drama is about it not working on newer dslr's, it's not that the lens will break faster or anything.

NO...the "drama" is about the fact that third party lenses from Sigma, and other manufacturers, have as recently as DECEMBER of 2013, FAILED TO WORK on the newest two Nikon d-slr models. And also, as recently as December, 2013, Nikon has issued firmware updates that have effectively "broken" third-party batteries and aftermarket Chinese battery grips. The simple fact is this: as the camera manufacturers change their camera protocols, third-party products have, in the historical past (like the early 2000's for example) FAILED TO WORK PROPERLY on both Canon and Nikon cameras, as well as earlier, with lenses from the film era not functioning with earlier d-slr cameras. And...in December of 2013...the latest, newest two Nikon camera models did NOT WORK with Sigma lenses.

As far as lenses breaking down...Sigma is just now beginning to recover from a history of what one photo writer called, "A legacy of poor reliability." Sigma is apparently trying to change its reputation for Sig-nificant Ma-lfunctions. But what Ken is talking about is the subject of two recent Thom Hogan columns: Nikon does NOT SHARE its standards and protocols with third-part makers, and when Nikon makes a change, the fact is, owners of many Sigma lenses, including me, have been left with lenses that didn't function right. Do some internet searches on Sigma + re-chipping...there are thousands of news stories about this. And now it seems, Nikon is designing firmware that disables third party batteries, AND Nikon seems to have deliberately killed the ability to use Nikon-branded batteries in third-party grips.
This is happening right now, as in "today".

When Nikon put the AF-ON button on the D200, there was a HUGE, instant issue with tens of thousands of Sigma lenses...the way that was implemented in the D200 effectively "broke" Sigma's HSM focusing lenses...the cameras were suddenly using **different** protocols, and the Sigma HSM lenses were not designed for that. Nikkor lenses were utterly unaffected.

Some people need to see the facts, and stop trying to shoot the messenger because they don;t like the guy who's simply pointing out what has already happened. The fact is, the third-party lens makers have made tens of thousands of lenses, less than 20 years old, that suddenly no longer worked fully or properly on NEW Canon or Nikon cameras. FACT.

 

[hamlet]

So Nikon is subverting the usurpers by putting up traps. But isn't Sigma coming out with usb functionality for their art lenses? The 18-35 is a lens that can be updated, is that maybe a way for Sigma to fight back?

 

[Scatterbrained]

Of course Sigma has found a way around Nikon by introducing the USB dock which allows for firmware updates to the lens right from home. Beyond that, I would say that if you get 20yrs out of a lens consider it paid for and be happy. Canon won't repair any lens that's been out of production for 10yrs or more, so in 9 yrs I will no longer be able to get my 24-70 serviced.

As far as the new Art lenses, I'd say go for it. I have a cabinet full of L lenses and my 35Art fits in just fine with them. I actually bought it over the 35L because the glass is that good. Older Sigma lenses. . . . . . .I wouldn't go that route. The new Art 35 and 50 are quite impressive however.

 

[hamlet]

Well then we've got nothing to worry about, Sigma has it figured out.

 

[BillM]

I really hope they do have it figured out, I just spent a good amount of money on the new 120-300 Sport lens and USB dock.

 

[hamlet]

I really hope they do have it figured out, I just spent a good amount of money on the new 120-300 Sport lens and USB dock.

I have never owned a Sigma lens before but i am about to. How can you tell if the Sigma USB Dock will be compatible with the Sigma lens you own? The lens i'm getting is the Sigma AF 105mm f/2.8 EX HSM DG OS.

 

[Scatterbrained]

I really hope they do have it figured out, I just spent a good amount of money on the new 120-300 Sport lens and USB dock.

I have never owned a Sigma lens before but i am about to. How can you tell if the Sigma USB Dock will be compatible with the Sigma lens you own? The lens i'm getting is the Sigma AF 105mm f/2.8 EX HSM DG OS.

Pretty much just the new generation of lenses that fall under the new naming system, Art, Sport, Contemporary.

Sigma USB Dock | Sigma Corporation of America

 

[Overread]

Even if the lens is not shipping with a USB port Sigma will still rechip the lens to work with newer systems - of course in 10-20 years they might drop some lenses (eventually) from that support line (as all products get dropped eventually). The USB port is the way forward for them letting them release firmwire updates to the lens owners and saving Sigma costs and reputation.


I've the 70mm macro - 150mm macro and 120-300mm OS (edition before the port version); all great lenses - all work fine on my 400D and 7D. Now go get that 105mm OS macro ^^

 

[Derrel]

So Nikon is subverting the usurpers by putting up traps. But isn't Sigma coming out with usb functionality for their art lenses? The 18-35 is a lens that can be updated, is that maybe a way for Sigma to fight back?

Yes, Sigma has introduced the USB dock as a way for owners/users to both adjust focusing performance and to update lens firmware. But as far as Sigma's being compatible, the guarantee of that is basically dependent upon how well Sigma can reverse-engineer Nikon's protocols. And...keep in mind, Sigma is not Canon, and Sigma is not Nikon, and Canon is not Nikon. Nikon not too long ago sued Sigma.

Nobody is questioning the optical performance of the very-newest Sigma lenses: the optical performance is EASILY SEEN, evaluated, and commented upon. We're talking about an issue that has been a problem for almost two decades now, with each major "update" to camera maker protocols making nothing but headaches for users of third-party lenses.

According to one recent apparent "insider", the holdup on the new Tamron 150-600mm zoom lens in Nikon mount? Tamron having "issues" with the lens's software so that it will properly work with Nikon cameras. Huh...

Anyway, as the facts prove...the NEW Nikon D5300 and the NEW Nikon Df models BOTH managed to "break" the functioning of Sigma lenses, both HSM lenses, and lenses that use Nikon's screw-drive protocol. We're not talking about the future--we're talking about right now, as in today. Sigma issued an advisory on on Nov. 19,2013 for the D5300, and for the Df on December 3, 2013:

Sigma issues advisory on lens compatibility with Nikon Df: Digital Photography Review

Sigma mentioned that on older lenses, they might not have the needed repair parts to fix the problems. SO, again...Ken's comments about "in 20 years this lens might not work" make perfect sense. I think Nikon's attitude is shown by their actions. Canon seems indifferent to Sigma's business, but to me at least, Nikon seems very combative toward Sigma, and indeed, maybe to the flood of low-cost made in China accessory makers' products like counterfeit batteries and battery grips.

Again...Sigma makes lenses for Canon and for Nikon and for Pentax mount, among others. I wouldn't look at what a lens does on a Canon as ANY sort of guarantee of fitness on a Nikon system. Still, a few of the very-newest Sigma lenses have great optics and good prices. But, the point is, Ken often talks about long-term investment value and long-term usability, which is something Nikon and Nikkor lenses have demonstrated for decades, which is not true of all other systems. people say a lens is a long-term investment...well, it **is** if it's a Nikkor or a Leica lens...but other mounts have come and gone, and makers have died out. (Miranda? Exakta? Petri? Fujica? Canon FD? Minolta MD? All dead mounts.)

 

[hamlet]

Even if the lens is not shipping with a USB port Sigma will still rechip the lens to work with newer systems - of course in 10-20 years they might drop some lenses (eventually) from that support line (as all products get dropped eventually). The USB port is the way forward for them letting them release firmwire updates to the lens owners and saving Sigma costs and reputation.


I've the 70mm macro - 150mm macro and 120-300mm OS (edition before the port version); all great lenses - all work fine on my 400D and 7D. Now go get that 105mm OS macro ^^

I've ordered it like a few days ago, i just gotta wait till postman Pat brings it.



He's taking his sweet time.

 

[hamlet]

So Nikon is subverting the usurpers by putting up traps. But isn't Sigma coming out with usb functionality for their art lenses? The 18-35 is a lens that can be updated, is that maybe a way for Sigma to fight back?

Yes, Sigma has introduced the USB dock as a way for owners/users to both adjust focusing performance and to update lens firmware. But as far as Sigma's being compatible, the guarantee of that is basically dependent upon how well Sigma can reverse-engineer Nikon's protocols. And...keep in mind, Sigma is not Canon, and Sigma is not Nikon, and Canon is not Nikon. Nikon not too long ago sued Sigma.

Nobody is questioning the optical performance of the very-newest Sigma lenses: the optical performance is EASILY SEEN, evaluated, and commented upon. We're talking about an issue that has been a problem for almost two decades now, with each major "update" to camera maker protocols making nothing but headaches for users of third-party lenses.

According to one recent apparent "insider", the holdup on the new Tamron 150-600mm zoom lens in Nikon mount? Tamron having "issues" with the lens's software so that it will properly work with Nikon cameras. Huh...

Anyway, as the facts prove...the NEW Nikon D5300 and the NEW Nikon Df models BOTH managed to "break" the functioning of Sigma lenses, both HSM lenses, and lenses that use Nikon's screw-drive protocol. We're not talking about the future--we're talking about right now, as in today. Sigma issued an advisory on on Nov. 19,2013 for the D5300, and for the Df on December 3, 2013:

Sigma issues advisory on lens compatibility with Nikon Df: Digital Photography Review

Sigma mentioned that on older lenses, they might not have the needed repair parts to fix the problems. SO, again...Ken's comments about "in 20 years this lens might not work" make perfect sense. I think Nikon's attitude is shown by their actions. Canon seems indifferent to Sigma's business, but to me at least, Nikon seems very combative toward Sigma, and indeed, maybe to the flood of low-cost made in China accessory makers' products like counterfeit batteries and battery grips.

Again...Sigma makes lenses for Canon and for Nikon and for Pentax mount, among others. I wouldn't look at what a lens does on a Canon as ANY sort of guarantee of fitness on a Nikon system. Still, a few of the very-newest Sigma lenses have great optics and good prices. But, the point is, Ken often talks about long-term investment value and long-term usability, which is something Nikon and Nikkor lenses have demonstrated for decades, which is not true of all other systems. people say a lens is a long-term investment...well, it **is** if it's a Nikkor or a Leica lens...but other mounts have come and gone, and makers have died out. (Miranda? Exakta? Petri? Fujica? Canon FD? Minolta MD? All dead mounts.)

This is very disconcerting and off-putting. I really like the sigma 105 os from what i've seen, but if i upgrade soon it will likely not work anymore. Nikon's macro equivalent is like nearly double the price.