Snow & Sunlight Practice

Discussion in 'General Gallery' started by Cortian, Mar 2, 2018.

  1. Cortian

    Cortian No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    I've been struggling with sunlit snow. Well, snow, period. But saw this scene in the backyard, this afternoon, and had to try to capture it. So I went out and shot several times, varying the exposure, via aperture, between -2/3 stop and 0.

    This one was the winner, I think

    [​IMG]

    Ran the series by my wife, and she identified the same one as being closest to reality.

    C&C, please?

    And, yes: I see the artefacts from, I assume, the UV filter.


     
  2. Braineack

    Braineack Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    do you have a filter on your lens?

    shot at f/16 could be part of the problem, but man that lens is soft and color fringing all over.
     
  3. Cortian

    Cortian No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    I do. A ProMaster HGX UV filter.

    Now that you mention it: Yeah, it is :(

    I didn't look at it at 100%. I was just looking at exposure levels.
     
  4. Braineack

    Braineack Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    remove it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! there's absolutely no reason a DLSR should need a UV filter on the lens. it's doing nothing but destroying your IQ.
     
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  5. Cortian

    Cortian No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    I'd hate to think I spent all that money on filters and they suck, but it wouldn't be the first time I took a wrong turn in a new endeavor.
     
  6. Braineack

    Braineack Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    How about this: For what exact purpose did you buy a uv filter?
     
  7. TreeofLifeStairs

    TreeofLifeStairs No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    They make them so they must be good for something, especially those really expensive ones, right?

    The sales person recommended it.

    It protects the front element of my lens.

    Isn’t that why most people buy them? I have one but like you braineak I never use it and never recommend them to others.


    Sent from my iPhone using ThePhotoForum.com mobile app
     
  8. Cortian

    Cortian No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    For starters: One of the smartest people I know, the friend of mine that gifted me the 20D and 17-85mm lens (which had a Hoya filter on it) that started all this believes in them. Mind you: This guy is so precise in his research and actions he makes me look sloppy, by comparison, and I'm regarded by those who know me as being insanely rigorous. He's got telescopes with eyepieces, alone, that cost thousands of dollars. He has one telescope that has a custom, hand-made optical element that was thousands of dollars--just for the one element. He just doesn't fool around. And he understands the physics of light. This guy could easily discuss the subject with Steven Hawking.

    Secondly: I researched the arguments pro-and-con on my own. Near as I could tell, from the half-dozen to dozen or so articles I read: Some people believe them to be a benefit. Some do not. Some tests revealed a negative impact on IQ, others did not. Still others had mixed results.

    I use them for several reasons:

    1. To protect the lens. The filters I use, ProMaster HGX, are claimed by ProMaster to be much harder than lens glass. And if I should somehow bolix-up the threads I can simply replace the filter.

    2. The filters I use have a surface that is remarkably slippery. Dust is not inclined to stick to it.

    I just examined each of my three filters, which have been on their respective lenses for anywhere from a couple weeks to over a month. Found three (3) specks of dust on the one that had been on a lens the longest, and I had to use these

    [​IMG]

    even to see that.

    The filter on my Tamron macro lens had a couple specks of dust, which blew off with just blowing on it. The 67mm filter on the 17-85mm was dust-free.

    3. In reviews, users claim that, in the field they clean these with the corner of a t-shirt, in a pinch, with no ill effects. I would never even briefly consider doing that to my lens glass. The couple smudges I've seen on the three I've installed wiped off effortlessly with breath-fogging and clean facial tissue with essentially no pressure. I've never seen glass clean up so easily, with so little effort.

    And when I say "clean up," I mean unbelievably clear. So clear that, when I went to move the 58mm filter from the 100-300mm lens I had to the 70-300mm lens I was gifted I had to look twice, because, at first glance I could not see any glass.

    All that being said: The light looks like it'll cooperate with my being able to roughly replicate yesterday's photos. My plan is to do them again with f-stops closer to what should be the sweet spot for that lens (should be f/9.5 to f/16, depending upon focal length) and a set w/o the filter.
     
  9. Braineack

    Braineack Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    poppycock.

    1. no. lie. sorry but no, the coatings on modern lenses are 100,000x times better/stronger than any screw on filter -- it's part of why lenses cost so much. I'm HIGHLY skeptical of ProMaster's claims here. here's a great test: take a hammer to your lens -- you will see nothing. take a hammer to your filter: it will shatter -- WHEN your UV filter shatters, it can cause actual damage to the lenses front element. I've never heard of ProMaster -- I bet they show up at those tourist trap camera shops in big cities.

    2. who cares? dust doesn't show up on images. Got a spec of dust on your lens? Blow it off or ignore it.

    3. again, the front element on the lens is strong. wiping it with a t-shirt is not an issue -- it wont damage the lens.

    I own three lenses that each cost me over $1000 each. I have no filters on them, and wipe them clean with my breathe and a t-shirt...

    4. Digital sensors aren't susceptible to UV rays like film as they are already coated/covered with a filter for them. You bought a REALLY expensive piece of cheap glass to protect your lens that doesn't need protection and to keep clean in order to do nothing more than to kill the IQ of your images.

    5. all money and effort to keep your front element is moot -- this is how they advertise the filter: The ProMaster Digital HGX UV filter absorbs the ultraviolet rays which often makes outdoor photographs hazy and indistinct.

    Guess what that filter is doing to your images?! Making them hazy and indistinct. It's also what's causing the green flare on the top of your image.




    sweet spot on that lens at 17mm is closer to f/5.6: Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 USM IS - Review / Test Report - Analysis

    also google: diffraction.

    also reading: Good Times with Bad Filters

    from a quick google search, promaster is just re-branded Chinese low-end stuff. like Neewer and alike. they aren't B+W filters.
     
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  10. Cortian

    Cortian No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    If manufacturers can put such coatings on modern lenses, then what's to stop manufacturers from putting such coatings on filters?

    Btw: You do your argument no favours by over-stating your case. 100,000 times? Hardly possible unless lens-makers have found a way to defeat the laws of physics as we currently understand them.

    I think I'll pass on that experiment ;)

    ProMaster makes (or brands) a bunch of stuff. Both my tripod and camera cases are ProMaster, for example. Seem to be quite well-made, too.

    Fair enough, but...

    My eyeglasses have impact- and scratch-resistant coatings, too. I don't clean them with a t-shirt. I don't do that because they cost ±$700 and I know of what "dust" can be comprised.

    You are free to do that with your lenses. I, OTOH, know that much dust is highly abrasive. Particularly the stuff blowing around out-of-doors.

    Ordinary glass has a hardness of only ±5 Mohs. Even current Corning Gorilla Glass is only around 7 Mohs. Dust can be anything, including mineral dust that is much, much harder than 7 Mohs. If lens-makers were using sapphire glass (9 Mohs) front elements that'd be one thing, but I highly doubt they're doing that, or we'd certainly hear about it.

    Micro-scratches on a filter? Toss it and buy another. Micro-scratches on the front element of your lens? Well...

    Knew that, but thanks for the info.

    They also claim:

    I haven't seen anybody test the hardness of their HGX glass, but I have seen many people speak highly of its moisture, fingerprint, dust, dirt and grime-resistant properties in use.

    I've seen no evidence of that so far. All this started because you observed colour fringing in my photo. It turns out that lens is known to be highly-susceptible to colour-fringing at its minimum focal length. (That's what I get for not reading the tests on the lenses I use!)

    I tried to replicate the photo I posted yesterday. I came close, but not to quite as high an exposure level. I tested in aperture priority at apertures of 8, 11 and 16, with and without the filter, at everything from -1/3 stop to +1-1/3 stop under/over exposure. The colour-fringing appeared to be evident, to a greater-or-lesser degree, in every photo--filter or no filter.

    I know they can cause flare, but the filter was not the culprit in this instance after all. The non-filter shots I took yesterday had identical flare with and without the filter.

    That was a guess based on the common wisdom that, for most lenses, the sweet spot is 2 to 2-1/2 stops above wide open. Wide open is f/4 on that lens at 17mm. It looks like with this lens the sweet spot is closer to one stop at all focal lengths. (Once again: Pays to read the results of the tests people have done [​IMG])

    Thanks for the info, but I knew about it already.

    Was experimenting with my new Tamron 90mm macro a couple weeks ago and clearly saw the effect, first hand. Became very evident at f/16, if memory serves.

    The less-expensive ProMaster filters are not highly-regarded. ProMaster's HGX filters are believed to be relabelled Hoya HD filters. Whether they are, or not, it is Hoya's HD filters to which they're compared.

    They claim "Made in Japan" on them. (Though, as we all know, "Made in..." doesn't necessarily mean what it says.)
     
  11. kalgra

    kalgra TPF Supporters Supporting Member

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    For what its worth the only thing I would ever consider using a UV filter for is to protect my lens from a lot of liquid or debris flying directly toward the front element, which at least for me is a situation i'm not likely going to be in. Otherwise a lens hood is all the protection you need. Just my opinion.

    On a side note when I started into digital photography I was duped into buying the some of the pro master HGX UV filters too. After about a year I started buying very high-end glass and realized not only are they pointless but they do in fact degrade IQ. They have sat in a box collecting dust ever since and I in good conscience could not bring myself to sell them to anyone else.

    Now there are many screw on filters that do serve good purpose like CPLs and NDs and those too degrade IQ but at least offer some other more important trade off. If you start using these types of filters too you are going to quickly find that stacking glass over you lens isn't good and removing your UV filter every time you want to use one of these filters is just way more hassle than its worth.

    The statement above they must be good for something? Yep making more money for the camera shops selling them.
     
  12. Cortian

    Cortian No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    Over time I may find, as you did, kalgra, that UV filters don't bring anything to the game. So far, though, I remain unconvinced. May be partly due to the fact I don't own any high-end glass ;)
     

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