Something i wanted to point out.

Discussion in 'Photographic Discussions' started by donny1963, Jun 20, 2020.

  1. terri

    terri Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

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    By all means, share your empirical research with the class.


     
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  2. mrca

    mrca No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    Darrel, exactly what I did. My entire body, 4 lens, 3 film back Mamiya RB67 kit costs less than a grand. It makes a 60 mm x 70 mm negative, real mf full frame, with tonal transitions like budda. It has that mf look. I primarily use it in studio or for landscapes on tripod, it's a beast. But I don't use Portra or 1600 speed b&w plugins that kinda look right. I get that gorgeous grain or real portra colors from this stuff called "film." But if I had to shoot only it or my d850 with 100 mm zeiss glass, not even a close call. I wonder how many folks here could tell the difference between a mf or ff digital or film. But I do and I continue to put up with $2.50 a shot, a week turnaround for development and emailed digitals. Besides, it's actually fun shooting.
     
  3. The_Traveler

    The_Traveler Completely Counter-dependent Supporting Member

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    The terms of my parole limit disclosing my research only as pillow talk.
     
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  4. mrca

    mrca No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    Art should be to hold as 'twere the mirror up to nature. Hamlet. William Shakespeare. Who didn't see it as a hammer... or a sickle. If you have never watched the scene from Branaugh's Hamlet with Charleton Heston showing what acting should look like in that scene, it is perhaps his best acting ever. .
     
  5. donny1963

    donny1963 No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    First off using a camera that does 16 bit vs 8 bit is not just to be able to see it on a monitor, they are many reasons why a Real professional photographer would chose and do choose a good quality 16 bit camera rather then an 8 bit,
    Playboy for example, i worked for playboy for 7 years in the 80's and low 90's we all used hasselbad Medium Format film camera's not Nikon or canon 35mm they was a reason for that. and most photographers who got anywhere in their carrier use the
    hasselbad medium format, for vogue, rolling stones and so on, back in the day when i met up with annie leibovitz who did many work for Rolling Stones and Vanity Fair she always used the Hasselbald medium format for a shoot that mattered every time i saw her that is what was in her hand for a camera.

    i have done work for sports illustrated swimsuit, Maxim, Vogue, cosmopolitan and others.

    Here is some important information about the Fujifilm X-Trans Sensors, Yes they take good sharp images, they have some great features, But I wouldn't consider them a "Professional" Camera not even the Medium Format ones, I would never Use them for a shoot where a client paid me for this service.

    First off Most Camera's like the Canon Or Nikon Crop Sensor cameras, even some of the full frame camera's do ok for taking pictures, But they have a flaw most of them, Especially the ones that have the optical low pass filters removed to increase sharpness, yes it does do that but with the problem of now causing moire & Banding.

    And this can happen where your taking a shot of something that has small tiny pattern lines like a swimsuit is common to have them.
    I would never use a Non-Professional Camera for a swimsuit photo shoot, and i did take the Fuji X-T3 to demonstrate this example on that shoot. I Shoot models from all over the world, i shoot for magazine, posters, even fashion shows,
    Example i done some of the sports illustrated swimsuit shot for Maxim Magazine, and others.

    here an example picture where this banding and moire is real bad,
    this was done with the Fuji T-T3 by the way.

    imagine if i was to use the Fuji XT-3 For doing the 2020 sports illustrated swimsuit issue and this picture in the example below was given to them, they would say to me "what is wrong with you"

    By the way that is one of the models for the 2020 sports illustrated swimsuit taken just out side a pizza place on our lunch time. Now the fuji- X series cameras are good cameras for people wanting a camera and not pay tons of money, people to use it for birthday party or on vacation. But Not for Weddings, Or serious Hired Professional shoots, NO WAY!!!

    all the Fuji X Series camera's have the xtrans sensors, they work well except they are prone for causing Major moire & Banding.
    especially the Xtrans Sensors ones, that sensor causes major major Banding & Moire galore as you can see in the example picture.

    Even the GFX100 Medium Format Fuji Sensors have it as well, This is why i use the Hasselblad H6 Medium Format, i will NOT pay $10,000.00 for a "professional" Camera"
    That will produce Major Moire and banding, unacceptable..
    This is why the Fuji GFX100 is only $10,000.00 and the Hasselblad H6 is $47,000.00 this is one of the reasons.
    The sensors in the Hasselblad H6 Is way better and does the imaging properly where the lower priced "Non-Professional Cameras would not.

    See Non professional photographers don't realize this or come across this because they don't do this professionally every day like i have.
    I been doing this for over 30 years. when you shoot for the people that i have, you would notice this.

    Any one to say that i'm wrong about what i said is just a photography enthusiast, and has not done this as a serious profession working for the high end publications like i have.

    I have done Fashion Week In NYC with all the top 5 models in the world for fashion designers, and if i was to use any of them camera's mention above that would cause Major Moire or banding i would most certainly experience this banding and Moire for sure with all the fashion clothing out there Mark my words not a matter of if, but a matter of i would on the first shoot probably happen on one of the first 5 models walking out on the catwalk.

    And let me tell you if i was to give a picture with that Moire or banding i would probably get black listed from every major publishing company in the world, ie, rolling stones, sports illustrated, Maxim cosmopolitan, and so on, this would be the end of my carrier as a photographer in anything that matters..

    This is why you see all the top photographer who shoot for high end magazines and publishing companies use the Hasselbald medium format camera's, because those camera's DO NOT give you an image with MOIRE or BANDING.

    Banding more so happens when there aren't enough tones available to recreate a seamless gradation; that's why they're most common in 8-bit image files and with image files that have been heavily compressed.

    In each case, there are less colors available with which to work. Working in 16-bit mode allows for more colors. this is why 16 bit matters over 8 bit

    This is one of the reason i state why the GFX 100 is no where near or close to as good as the Hasslebald H6 Becuase the GFX100 even tho it's a cropped Medium Format it only produces 8 bit colors, where the Hasselblad H6 produces real true 16 Bit, like i said you get what you pay for, $10,00.00 for the Gfx100 $47,000.00 for the H6, As you see there is a reason why the H6 Cost $37,000.00 more then the GFX 100, people need to start using their common sense rather then listing to YOUTUBE So called know it all about camera's , when you see some one on youtube trying to be a photography teacher and say that the GFX 100 Is just as good as the H6, then you know they are not who they think they are or not qualified to teach anything about photography..
    of course the image shown here has been converted to lower resolution this is just for an example.
    And i took this shot quickly for this example.


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    banding&Moire.jpg
     
  6. Ysarex

    Ysarex Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    The ADC in the Fuji GFX 100 is 16 bit just like the one in the Hasselblad H6. To say the Fuji GFX only produces 8 bit colors is just ridiculously wrong.

    "At the core of the GFX 100 is its new 102-megapixel backside-illuminated image sensor. This image sensor offers the same ISO range as the 51-megapixel sensor found in the GFX 50S and 50R while delivering a much larger image and 16-bit depth." Fuji GFX 100 Field Test: An expensive camera which delivers great image quality & performance

    Joe
     
  7. donny1963

    donny1963 No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    The GFX 100 does NOT produce true 16 bit, it does compressed but not Full Raw
    and it's a Crop sensor medium format not True Full Medium format, the GFX 100 sensor size is
    33 × 44mm
    the Hasselblad h6 sensor size is 53.4 x 40mm

    GFX 100 is not full true medium format, it's basically a crop medium format sensor, like the Nikon D7100 is a crop of the Nikon D850
     
  8. Ysarex

    Ysarex Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    You are flatly wrong. Here's the Dpreview run down on the GFX in which you can verify that you are wrong. Fujifilm GFX 100 review I grabbed a screen shot of the specs that shows you are wrong. You don't have a clue what you are talking about.

    specs-GFX.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2020 at 5:39 PM
  9. donny1963

    donny1963 No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    Right i see the specs but it says Raw 14/16-bit but it only does the 16 bit raw compressed.
     
  10. Ysarex

    Ysarex Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    You are wrong. Fuji offers both compressed and uncompressed raw files for both the 14 and 16 bit options for the GFX. Here's a reference: diglloyd.com: Fujifilm GFX100: File Sizes in 16-bit vs 14-bit Capture (diglloyd.com excerpt)

    In any case so what if you used the compressed raw. The compression Fuji uses is lossless and so has no effect on image quality -- it's just a file size compression not a lossy compression.

    Please note that you are now acknowledging that you see the GFX provides 14 and 16 bit raw. You originally made this nonsense claim: "Becuase the GFX100 even tho it's a cropped Medium Format it only produces 8 bit colors,..." and said the GFX only produces 8 bit colors.

    Joe
     
  11. Derrel

    Derrel Mr. Rain Cloud

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    Most d-slr cameras have offered 12 bit raw for over 15 years now. I have no idea where you are coming up with all this 8-bit nonsense.

    And,cough,cough, magazines published with a 180 line screen looked fantastic back in the 6- megapixel era...the screen cuts the resolution wayyyyyy down....
     
  12. donny1963

    donny1963 No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    Did not acknowledging that at all, I said True 16 bit, and compressed is a big difference, first of lossy compression , is not what you think if the file size is smaller then there is information still missing as not compress has more information.

    And my point also was about the banding and all that, you still get the banding with the GFX 100 as h6 you do not.
    i've tested this, Plus Fujifilm no matter medium format or not them sensors on the fujifilm camera's cause major banding and moire, they are notorious for banding and moire more so then lets say Nikon or Canon.
    People have notice strange looks in the pictures going into lightroom they called it wormy waves when you zoom it in real close, this is because of the X-trans sensors, Lightroom doesn't know the full interpretation of the images from Fujifilm X-Trans Sensors.
    This has been a know issue, that is why Phase One released a special version of capture one, just for the Fujifilm camera's with X-Trans Sensors.

    Lightroom to this day has not, they came up with a so called fix for the wormy patterns but it really doesn't fully fix it 100%.

    And this is probably what is making the banding and moire worst then other camera's..
     

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