Starting out: What to charge? How to market?

[KmH]

When you raise prices you leave a larger portion of whatever customer base you had behind, and have to start building a new customer base.

I'm not talking about small, every 6 months or so 5% routine price increases needed to cover the ever rising non-reimbursed business expenses. I'm talking about the large 'I have to make a profit' price increases.

Obviously, someone that has been using a loss-leader pricing strategy to give the business a start will have to increase prices rather dramatically to become profitable.

Imagine this scenario:

"Oh Brenda! Who took those photos for you?"

"TCUphoto took those for me. I just love them and she was so affordable. I called her just last week to schedule a session to get more photos, but she said she had to really raised her prices to stay in business, and I can't come close to affording her anymore."

That's called bad 'word-of-mouth' advertising.

 

[TCUphoto]

Very true. I can see how that would be bad word of mouth advertising. However, how do you get clients to buy $150 sessions if you only have 5 photo sessions in your experience?

Thanks all for your advice. I truly believe I have good work, and can make a product tailored to my client. I just booked a wedding yesterday for January 2013, so I'm starting to get some business. So next question, at what point do you make a website? Get business cards? etc...

I have about 5-7 photo sessions under my belt, along with a lot of landscape and macro stuff.

 

[spacefuzz]

Very true. I can see how that would be bad word of mouth advertising. However, how do you get clients to buy $150 sessions if you only have 5 photo sessions in your experience?

Thanks all for your advice. I truly believe I have good work, and can make a product tailored to my client. I just booked a wedding yesterday for January 2013, so I'm starting to get some business. So next question, at what point do you make a website? Get business cards? etc...

I have about 5-7 photo sessions under my belt, along with a lot of landscape and macro stuff.

A: If you have quality examples it shouldnt matter how many paid shoots you have under your belt. Ideally you have practiced shooting on models to learn lighting, posing, etc. dont discount all of that experience.

B: people are planning weddings for 2013? As a man I am baffled.....but anyways get business cards right away, you want to start networking and getting your name out as soon as possible.

 

[gsgary]

You are not going to get much from 1 hour sessions by the time you have setup lighting and took some light readings you will probably only have about 15 minutes

 

[KmH]

Very true. I can see how that would be bad word of mouth advertising. However, how do you get clients to buy $150 sessions if you only have 5 photo sessions in your experience?

Thanks all for your advice. I truly believe I have good work, and can make a product tailored to my client. I just booked a wedding yesterday for January 2013, so I'm starting to get some business. So next question, at what point do you make a website? Get business cards? etc...

I have about 5-7 photo sessions under my belt, along with a lot of landscape and macro stuff.

A wedding booked for 2013 is not yet 'business'. Did you take a retainer ($$$'s) and have the B&G sign your contract to secure the booked date? What provisions are there in you contract if the B&G decide to cancel - next week, in 6 months, or 3 days before the booked date?

You should have had a web site and business cards before you opened for business. In partial retirement I was distributing about 5000 business cards a year, 1000 a month when I was shooting full time.

Do you have any kind of a business/marketing plan?

 

[DiskoJoe]

You are not ready to start a business. My tip is to wait. Patience is a virtue.

 

[bennielou]

I think that KmH has some good advice, even if you might not want to hear it.

What I haven't seen a lot of in the last several years is the natural evolution of turning a hobby into a business. So many people think it's just this cash cow that never stops mooing. They buy a camera in January, and by June they have set up a website and are "going into business".

You can take some stunning photos, but people who don't take the BUSINESS side seriously will always fail. Every single time. Snapping the shutter is such a miniscule part of our business. Because we are not into photography. We are in the photography business.

The photography business is so much more than taking pretty photos, having nice lighting, and cool photoshopping, and facebook sites, and business cards.

A business involves an initial business plan, legally setting up the business, getting the required insurance and legal documents taken care of FIRST.
It involves knowing how to price your work to make a sustainable profit in a competitive market.
It involves knowing how to SELL the deal, or you won't be working anyway.
It involves being good about dealing with clients, and knowing when and when not to bend.


Every other day, I see another post about "going in to business" in which the OP thinks nothing more is required than making a website, getting business cards, and giving work away.
I mean do it if you want to. But just know that's not a photography business. That is taking photos for a few bucks.

 

[dnavarrojr]

Last Saturday I attended a charity event for curing cancer and I took hundreds of photos. I spent the weekend editing the photos, posting them on Facebook on my business page and on the page for the event which allowed the performers to tag themselves. I've had emails and calls from several dozen people who loved my photos and so far 22 have booked sessions. Four hours at the event plus another 4 hours editing and posting photos is all it took. Get out and get involved.

 

[dnavarrojr]

The photography business is so much more than taking pretty photos, having nice lighting, and cool photoshopping, and facebook sites, and business cards.

I don't believe in discouraging people, if you want to go into business then go into business. But this advice and the advice of many others, even if a big gruff, is spot on correct if you want to STAY in business.

You can't just wing it, you really need to have a plan. You really need to think it through and write down your goals. You need to make a plan and be ready for all this business throws at you unexpectedly...

What do you do when a client doesn't like your work and wants their money back? Did you use a contract which protects you?
What about when a client who paid $50 tells you they want you to sign over the copyrights to THEIR photos? Do you know what your rights are?
What happens when you book a wedding, show up and your ONE AND ONLY camera stops working in the middle of the ceremony?
Are you losing profits because you only deliver images on CD when the real money is in print packages?
Do you have insurance that covers you when you're shooting on location, ask the client to take a step back (or forward), they fall, hurt themselves and sue you?
Do you have the right equipment for every event you shoot? Enough batteries, memory cards? Nothing more embarrassing than running out of power or memory in the middle of a shoot.

Plus several dozen other questions you need answers to BEFORE you do this as a business. Those are some of the things a business plan helps you with. Not to mention the financial questions... If you charge $50 for a session, pay $12 in gas and materials and spend 4 hours total work between driving, shooting and editing, is $9.50 an hour really worth your time? And THE MOST IMPORTANT question of all... Are you willing to say NO? Are you willing to tell a potential client NO, you can't drive to another location after the session has already started. NO, you will not provide them with the RAW files from the shoot. NO, they can't have 10 or 15 more images for free when you contracted for 5 images and they can't narrow it down to just 5. NO, they can't have a refund 6 months later when they've accepted the images but someone tells them the images they liked are actually bad and they should get their money back. NO, you can't stay an extra hour or two at no additional charge.

Try not to take personally some things said here. Most of it really is good advice.

 

[bennielou]

Last Saturday I attended a charity event for curing cancer and I took hundreds of photos. I spent the weekend editing the photos, posting them on Facebook on my business page and on the page for the event which allowed the performers to tag themselves. I've had emails and calls from several dozen people who loved my photos and so far 22 have booked sessions. Four hours at the event plus another 4 hours editing and posting photos is all it took. Get out and get involved.

And I'm just ASSUMING that you have a documented legal business, the required liablility insurance, and pay your quartly taxes on the 20th of every third month, Right? I'm also just guessing that you are charging $150 plus per session to take care of all the overhead listed above?

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I'm not trying to discourage anyone. I'm just saying to do things the right way or you will simply set yourself up for a short term failure. If you don't do it right, you will spend your life running to and fro, wearing your equipment out, and making less than minimun wages for all your effort.

You won't get into legal woes if you do things right, at least hopefully.

Take the time to make a real business. If you do, the bonus is, is that you will charge the correct amount of money, and you will value your business which in turn others will value.

No one is trying to talk anyone out of anything. It's just got to be done the right way.

 

[shootermcgavin]

Last Saturday I attended a charity event for curing cancer and I took hundreds of photos. I spent the weekend editing the photos, posting them on Facebook on my business page and on the page for the event which allowed the performers to tag themselves. I've had emails and calls from several dozen people who loved my photos and so far 22 have booked sessions. Four hours at the event plus another 4 hours editing and posting photos is all it took. Get out and get involved.

And I'm just ASSUMING that you have a documented legal business, the required liablility insurance, and pay your quartly taxes on the 20th of every third month, Right? I'm also just guessing that you are charging $150 plus per session to take care of all the overhead listed above?Somehow, I doubt it.......

You make it sound like what you're talking about is difficult. Liability insurance is cheap cheap, an LLC is formed in 10 minutes online for $130 in my state. You shouldn't worry about paying taxes until your third year if you do things right. If you're really business savy taxes should almost be non-existent. I think what the guy did is the best way to possibly get business in the beginning, go to a large public event take great photos, hand out your card w/facebook or website and tell them they can see their photos there. The average number of people at a wedding is 500, 250 from groom 250 from bride. So if you can make 1 person extremely happy you are possibly spreading that word to 250 other people, but it works both ways piss off that one person and 250 are most likely going to hear about it. Most small businesses cut corners in the beginning, you have nothing to lose. When you start making money then worry about protecting it.

 

[bennielou]

Last Saturday I attended a charity event for curing cancer and I took hundreds of photos. I spent the weekend editing the photos, posting them on Facebook on my business page and on the page for the event which allowed the performers to tag themselves. I've had emails and calls from several dozen people who loved my photos and so far 22 have booked sessions. Four hours at the event plus another 4 hours editing and posting photos is all it took. Get out and get involved.

And I'm just ASSUMING that you have a documented legal business, the required liablility insurance, and pay your quartly taxes on the 20th of every third month, Right? I'm also just guessing that you are charging $150 plus per session to take care of all the overhead listed above?Somehow, I doubt it.......

You make it sound like what you're talking about is difficult. Liability insurance is cheap cheap, an LLC is formed in 10 minutes online for $130 in my state. You shouldn't worry about paying taxes until your third year if you do things right. If you're really business savy taxes should almost be non-existent. I think what the guy did is the best way to possibly get business in the beginning, go to a large public event take great photos, hand out your card w/facebook or website and tell them they can see their photos there. The average number of people at a wedding is 500, 250 from groom 250 from bride. So if you can make 1 person extremely happy you are possibly spreading that word to 250 other people, but it works both ways piss off that one person and 250 are most likely going to hear about it. Most small businesses cut corners in the beginning, you have nothing to lose. When you start making money then worry about protecting it.

Oh, you only have to pay your sales tax in the third year? I guess Texas doesn't know about that yet........I'll have to let them know.

And yes, it's NOT difficult to set things up legally. But many photogs don't. For instance, if I looked you up, would I find a legal business or a shadow?

 

[dnavarrojr]

And I'm just ASSUMING that you have a documented legal business, the required liablility insurance, and pay your quartly taxes on the 20th of every third month, Right? I'm also just guessing that you are charging $150 plus per session to take care of all the overhead listed above?

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I'm not trying to discourage anyone. I'm just saying to do things the right way or you will simply set yourself up for a short term failure. If you don't do it right, you will spend your life running to and fro, wearing your equipment out, and making less than minimun wages for all your effort.

You won't get into legal woes if you do things right, at least hopefully.

Take the time to make a real business. If you do, the bonus is, is that you will charge the correct amount of money, and you will value your business which in turn others will value.

No one is trying to talk anyone out of anything. It's just got to be done the right way.

Actually, if you read my other posts you would know that I do in fact have liability insurance (and that I'm paying too much for it, apparently). I just recently moved out of the house and into a studio in Downtown Topeka. I did, in fact, write up a business plan (actually, I paid someone to help me write it). I do have an accountant who takes care of my taxes. And this is not my first business. So you need to not make assumptions.

And no, I do not charge $150 per session... I charge $99 for an in-studio session and the clients gets NOTHING for that, other than my time. They have to buy a CD with 10 low-res images and buy all prints from me. In fact, when I upsell clients into larger packages, I often discount the session fee to nothing. I'm making enough profit on $1000+ worth of prints to waive the $99 in-studio fee.

So, you wanna get off your high horse now? You don't have to be an uninformed ass to get your point across.

 

[shootermcgavin]

And I'm just ASSUMING that you have a documented legal business, the required liablility insurance, and pay your quartly taxes on the 20th of every third month, Right? I'm also just guessing that you are charging $150 plus per session to take care of all the overhead listed above?Somehow, I doubt it.......

You make it sound like what you're talking about is difficult. Liability insurance is cheap cheap, an LLC is formed in 10 minutes online for $130 in my state. You shouldn't worry about paying taxes until your third year if you do things right. If you're really business savy taxes should almost be non-existent. I think what the guy did is the best way to possibly get business in the beginning, go to a large public event take great photos, hand out your card w/facebook or website and tell them they can see their photos there. The average number of people at a wedding is 500, 250 from groom 250 from bride. So if you can make 1 person extremely happy you are possibly spreading that word to 250 other people, but it works both ways piss off that one person and 250 are most likely going to hear about it. Most small businesses cut corners in the beginning, you have nothing to lose. When you start making money then worry about protecting it.

Oh, you only have to pay your sales tax in the third year? I guess Texas doesn't know about that yet........I'll have to let them know.And yes, it's NOT difficult to set things up legally. But many photogs don't. For instance, if I looked you up, would I find a legal business or a shadow?

Ah sorry, I wasn't thinking you meant sales taxes. There are definetely ways around sales taxes as most of the photography business is a service. I am unique in that I have many LLC's because some of my businesses deal with extreme liability exposure, so you would find a shadow corporation. I meant more the common rule of thumb is that a business loses money their first 2 years and should think about showing profits their third. But I don't consider photography a business personally more of a business write off. I believe in any hobby becoming a business if only just for the tax write offs.

 

[bennielou]

You make it sound like what you're talking about is difficult. Liability insurance is cheap cheap, an LLC is formed in 10 minutes online for $130 in my state. You shouldn't worry about paying taxes until your third year if you do things right. If you're really business savy taxes should almost be non-existent. I think what the guy did is the best way to possibly get business in the beginning, go to a large public event take great photos, hand out your card w/facebook or website and tell them they can see their photos there. The average number of people at a wedding is 500, 250 from groom 250 from bride. So if you can make 1 person extremely happy you are possibly spreading that word to 250 other people, but it works both ways piss off that one person and 250 are most likely going to hear about it. Most small businesses cut corners in the beginning, you have nothing to lose. When you start making money then worry about protecting it.

Oh, you only have to pay your sales tax in the third year? I guess Texas doesn't know about that yet........I'll have to let them know.And yes, it's NOT difficult to set things up legally. But many photogs don't. For instance, if I looked you up, would I find a legal business or a shadow?

Ah sorry, I wasn't thinking you meant sales taxes. There are definetely ways around sales taxes as most of the photography business is a service. I am unique in that I have many LLC's because some of my businesses deal with extreme liability exposure, so you would find a shadow corporation. I meant more the common rule of thumb is that a business loses money their first 2 years and should think about showing profits their third. But I don't consider photography a business personally more of a business write off. I believe in any hobby becoming a business if only just for the tax write offs.

Nice. Yet another photog who sees all this "legal stuff and taxes" as unnessary.
And BTW, with all your LLCs, I would assume that you would know that you can't have a business "write off" until it's actually a real tax paying, money losing, legal set up business.

Brilliant business people here..... Carry on.